Anirudh Kejriwal: From fashioning garments to fashioning leaders, learning from mentors and leading with compassion.

Anirudh takes us on an international journey that sees him starting his own garment business in Mumbai, India before transitioning into a successful corporate career with BMW and then Centric Consulting. He shares the steps he took and the challenges he overcame on the way. 

Anirudh is an experienced professional having 25 years of experience in Automotive Finance and Consulting. He has vast international experience, having lived, and worked in 5 countries - USA, Malaysia, South Korea, Germany, and India over the last 20 years. He has extensive experience in IT services, project management, process improvement, sales and marketing, and strategy in the banking and finance, and insurance industries. 

Currently he is a Partner at Centric Consulting, an international management consulting firm with more than 1,400 experts in digital, technology and business consulting. He is responsible for the offshore development center in India. 

I'm grateful to him for joining me to create this episode and I look forward to hearing what resonates with you. 

If you enjoy listening to my guests career stories, please follow CAREER-VIEW MIRROR in your podcast app.  

You can contact Anirudh via LinkedIn 

Why not follow us on Instagram @careerviewmirror where you can see a directory of all our episodes and comment on those you have enjoyed. 

This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by Aquilae.  

Aquilae's mission is to enable Fullfilling Performance in the auto finance and mobility industry, internationally. Adopting our Fulfilling Performance Paradigm helps you identify what steps you need to take to enable Fulfilling Performance for yourself, your team and your business. Contact cvm@aquilae.co.uk for a no obligation conversation about your situation. 

Email: cvm@aquilae.co.uk 

Episode recorded on 20 and 21 June 2022 

Transcript

Anirudh Kejriwal: 0:00

And what I told him is you focus on the day to day IT operations. I'll take care of all these projects because if we fail, it's on me. I may be out but at least you can stay in and stabilise the team.

Andy: 0:12

Welcome to Career-view Mirror, the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers so far, sharing insights to help you with your own journey. I'm your host Andy Follows. Anirudh Kejriwal listeners Anirudh is an experienced professional having 25 years of experience in automotive finance and consulting. He has vast international experience having lived and worked in five countries the USA, Malaysia, South Korea, Germany and India over the last 20 years. He has extensive experience in IT Services Project Management Process Improvement, sales and marketing and strategy in the banking and finance and insurance industries. Currently, he's a partner at Centric Consulting an international management consulting firm with more than 1400 experts in digital technology and business consulting. He's responsible for the Offshore Development Centre in India. He's an empathetic leader passionate about developing future leaders and building a culture of providing unmatched experiences for his clients and employees. In our conversation Anirudh takes us on an international journey that sees him starting his own garment business in Mumbai, India, before transitioning into a successful corporate career with BMW and then Centric Consulting. He shares the steps he took and the challenges he overcame on the way. I'm grateful to him for joining me to create this episode, and I look forward to hearing what resonates with you. If you enjoy listening to my guests career stories, please follow Career-view Mirror in your podcast app.

Aquilae Academy: 2:06

This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by the Aquilae Academy. At the Academy we turn individual development into a team sport. We bring together small groups of leaders from non competing organisations to form their very own academy team. We build strong connection between team members and create a great environment for sharing and learning. We introduced the team to content that can help them tackle their current challenges. And we hold them accountable to take the actions that they decide at their priorities. We say we hold our team members feet to the fire of their best intentions. We do this internationally with teams across the world. If you'd like to learn more about the academy, go to www.aquilae.co.uk.

Andy: 2:52

Hello, Anirudh. And welcome. Where are you coming to us from today?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 2:56

Hello, Andy. Thanks for having me here. I'm currently in Gurgaon, India, which is part of the National Capital Region. So very close to the capital of India, New Delhi.

Andy: 3:08

And that's an area I have visited. I've done some work out in Gurgaon for BMW a few years ago now very much a growing part of the town, certainly was at the time I remember we went along a dirt track and there was this beautiful BMW academy that had been built there that looked like every other single BMW building around the world. It was all to the CI standards, and but it was just the only building. I think it's like the only building on the road at the time. So a fast developing part of Delhi. Yeah,

Anirudh Kejriwal: 3:42

yeah, no, absolutely. And if you remember the BMW office and this training centre, so I'm in somewhere between that I had worked here back in 2010, which were all dirt roads and buildings were coming up. This is a far more now mature city with a lot more skyscrapers and I would say much better infrastructure than it was back in 2010. When BMW started here,

Andy: 4:06

yeah, so it was probably around 2014 that I was there. So that's where you are now. Where did it all start for you though? Anirudh. Where were you born? Where did you grow up?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 4:18

I was born and I brought I was brought up in Bombay, which is now known as Mumbai, which is the western part of India, the financial capital. I was born in in what we call a joint family. So my dad had four brothers and four sisters. And he along with all his brothers, their respective families and my grandparents, we all live together in one place. So that's where I was born back in Mumbai,

Andy: 4:47

how many people then would have been living together?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 4:51

In all we were around 22 people, but fortunately for us, so I came from a well to do family so we all Not in one house, we had individual apartments for each family in an apartment complex. So around six, six apartments in the apartment complex. So my immediate family was my parents and my eldest sister we live together.

Andy: 5:14

Right? So you were following the cultural norm and stop me if I get any of this wrong of living together as a group, but in a very comfortable and as you say, well to do structure.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 5:27

That's, that's right. So my father and his brothers, they all were in it together into a business. So we pretty much spent time together, we all met for all the religious functions, you know, birthdays, anniversaries, we all celebrated that together. So it was a sense of, you know, being in a in a family community always together. And my grandfather, and then my dad's elder brother, after my grandfather passed away, was a patriarch of the family. So we kind of followed what you know, his direction was for the family.

Andy: 6:00

I'm trying to imagine what that was like. And then I've also read about over time, how we've become, obviously less people move around more even in, in our culture here in the UK, people move around, more people leave home, people move away. And so children are less exposed to the number of adults in a family that they might have been exposed to a few years ago, you know, quite a few years ago, where you would have had uncles and aunts and older cousins around and and other relatives and all the stimulation that a small child growing up would have. So that's still very much the case, it seems in India that you would grow a child would grow up with more adults, more cousins, more uncles and aunts, and grandparents around getting involved and stimulating a child's development.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 6:53

Yeah, I think I'm like, it's still prevalent in a lot of parts of India, it is getting to a point where people are moving out and being more in the nuclear families. But for me, what was fantastic is, so my dad was the youngest in his generation of nine children. And then I was the youngest in my generation of all the cousins. So I was spoiled thoroughly by all the uncles and aunts and, and really taken care of never felt that I was by myself. And that's, that's the power of being in this joint family, that you are, in a way, not by yourself.

Andy: 7:27

And your father was part of a business with his brothers, there was a family business. Tell us a little bit about that. And what you saw of it.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 7:35

Yeah. So we are a family business of textiles, where we made fabric cloth, right, from producing yarn, to making the fabric to having a process house that, you know, basically dyed and processed the fabric. And then we sold that out. It was a pretty extensive setup in those days, with three different factories, I think, close to around 500 people working for the for the family to run the business. So interestingly, my my

Andy: 8:03

four, sorry, can I just clarify that close to 400? Or 500? Did you say

Anirudh Kejriwal: 8:09

500? People? Yes,

Andy: 8:10

yeah. Well,

Anirudh Kejriwal: 8:12

you know, interestingly, my father and his brothers were not very well educated. You know, all of them had. Basically, once they were in school, they basically got into the family business and learn their way up, learned about business by just working through different bases. So even though it was quite extensive, at some point, I think they were challenged with saying, you know, how do they scale our business? How do they make it more professional. So my early years was seeing a way well to do family patriarch business running. And then by the time I got into college, you could see some of the challenges of trying to maintain a family business that was warranting growth, but due to limitations of how you scale up a business, we were struggling,

Andy: 8:57

we'll talk more about that and what you learned and the contrast that you experienced as you started on your own professional journey, I'm sure later in this conversation let's for now stay with you as a boy, and surrounded by all those people and that business, that family business and talk a little bit about school Anirudh what sort of a student were you?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 9:24

Yeah, so I'll probably take a pause and just talk about my mother. So she came from a family also of businessman but her maternal uncles were very distinguished lawyers in the country, very well educated had a lot of exposure to the Western environment. So she herself had done Master's in English literature. So she please for my sister and me in a really emphasise that, you know, education is important. Everything else is second priority, studies is first so I was actually compared to all my cousins a very good student more sincere in my studies. did pretty well in school, I wouldn't say I was outstanding, but got good marks good results, where I could get into good colleges. So schooling was quite smooth, I didn't get into a lot of trouble, maybe towards the end of my school years, but not not someone that you know, would get in trouble on a regular basis

Andy: 10:18

There was a little bit of a smile there listeners, when Anirudh was thinking back to some of the trouble he might have got in towards the end of his school days. So you were definitely influenced by your mother then and the educated side of her family and putting that first and focusing on your studies. So you had the combination of that plus your your father and his brothers and their self taught entrepreneurial business influences happening, as well. And you worked hard at school weren't stand out, but came out with some good, good results. It sounds like when when you were at school, did you lean towards particular topics, were you starting to see already the sort of things that held more attraction for you?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 11:05

Not Not really, I think in general I did well in studies. But you know, you have a lot of people who lean towards science or think about having a career in engineering or becoming a doctor, I didn't have any of those, which kind of led me to go for a bachelor's in economics and accounting, which is, you could say, a middle stream a bit easier to get in. And it kind of made sense, because coming from a business background, being entrepreneurial, having a good understanding of finance, accounting, economics would help. So it was kind of a bit of a natural proceeding for me to join that from a college point of view.

Andy: 11:39

So it sounds like you were being encouraged to focus on education, particularly from your mother, you weren't being pushed or channelled in a particular direction to become a doctor or a lawyer, which might have been, you wouldn't have been surprised, given the background on your mom's side, you weren't being pushed to be a lawyer, you weren't being pushed to join the family business, either.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 12:03

It wasn't being it was not more about being pushed, it was just expected that as you get into college, rather than focus on studies, you will basically get into the family business. It just so happened that, you know, being the youngest, I already had, I think five or six cousins, you know, older than me who were in the family business, and then with them, plus the five brothers, there were enough people to manage their business, I didn't really need to be there would be redundant. And with the support from my mother, that hey, you know, make sure you get graduated, go to college, I kind of used that actually to stay away from the business for some time. You know, right, that makes sense. on her side, she really did not push us for a particular direction from her point. As long as I studied and graduated from any stream, she would be happy as against not complete my education and get into business.

Andy: 12:58

So as long as you did make the most of your education rather than a specific direction. And so when you came towards the end of your school days, and you said you went into study economics, was it business and accounting, so tell us about that.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 13:19

So basically, like in India, you you either get into a science stream, or you get into what we call commerce, which is economics and accounting. And that's what I did. And in college, those days, rather than focus on studies, I was more into extracurricular activities. So I joined the nature club, which was all about animal welfare, protecting the environment. I actually got quite in depth with that. And, you know, my last two years actually headed the organisation as a president of the nature club. So studies again, wasn't, you know, my prime focus in college, it was about having a good time and taking part in extracurricular activities. But as we got closer to graduation, I saw a lot of my friends start studying for MBA entrance exams, chartered accountancy, and at that time, I wasn't sure where I want to go next. So I did take a few entrance exams for NBA, but nothing really materialised. So I graduated from my Bachelor's, and then said, I'll just join my dad's business and kind of support him and see where I can go with my career from there.

Andy: 14:29

And where did you study then? And did you stay close to home for your bachelor's or did you move away?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 14:37

So I went I went to Sydenham College of economics, it is based in Mumbai. In those days, it was a very well known college. I would say the top two commerce colleges in Bombay. So very fortunate to have good results, good marks to be able to get through that and graduate from there.

Andy: 14:55

So you actually after that, you apply for some MBA, but nothing came of that the time and so you decided then to join the family business. That's right. And how was that experience.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 15:09

So what had happened with with my dad and his brothers is around the same time, my dad actually had separated out from his brothers from the family business. And he was running his own. And when I got to him, I straightaway realised that, you know, the whole textile business wasn't for me, the economics didn't make sense. Basically, you had to buy the raw material upfront, by paying cash. And then it took anywhere from 30 to 45 days to make the fabric. And then you sold it on credit for another 30 to 90 days, the whole management of working capital and cash flow with low margins for me, it didn't make sense on the textiles front. So between me and my dad, we used to have a lot of conflict and kind of my way of thinking about how we should manage and run the business versus historic, traditional approach to a point where I decided then to branch out and start my own business of actually making, you know, garments, polo shirts and exporting them, which my dad supported, he understood where I was going with that. And actually, I then set up my own business at the terrace office factory, put up a shed and said, Okay, I'm going to set up some machines here and, and make garments.

Andy: 16:21

Right, so what sort of garments? Were you making polo shirts and

Anirudh Kejriwal: 16:27

polo shirts, you know, Ladies tops, one of my two big clients was Marks and Spencer in UK, so I was going through an exporter. So making basically, the garments for them. And then this exporter was then shipping it to Marks and Spencer in UK.

Andy: 16:45

Is this a different model, then. So you're from a from a cash flow working capital management is garment manufacturing, did that seem to make more sense to you at the time,

Anirudh Kejriwal: 16:58

it is, in the sense, with fabric, the turnaround from yarn to making fabric and processing is much longer than stitching garments, you got ready fabric stitching happen daily, and you could actually start shipping out the finished products by the end of the week. So from a cash flow point of view, if you had the right buyers, you could have a much quicker turnaround in terms of cash flow. The other piece was that in those days, exporting shirts had a much higher margin than producing fabric and selling that locally. So that was what for me, the ultimate goal was get my business production ready to a point that I can have the right quality to start exporting on my own as against, you know, working for an exporter,

Andy: 17:46

right? Your customer was in India, it was an exporter, and you would be selling to them. And they were on selling to organisations like Marks and Spencer,

Anirudh Kejriwal: 17:57

that's right.

Andy: 17:58

So that for a lot of people would have been a huge step to set up your own business as a garment manufacturer, was it less so for you? Because that was kind of the expectation it was very normal to have a garment business or to have a fabric business? And did it seem less of a leap for you? Or was there some trepidation about doing that?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 18:21

It was less of a leap in the sense that my thought was, at some point, I'll get to wear the fabric that my father was producing, maybe I can use that to make garments and then send that forward. So it was, you know, an extension to what he was doing. At least that was my mindset. I also felt that if I had the right capital, and I could leverage on the setup that my father had with his business, I could then kind of leapfrog into producing these garments and manufacturing faster than let's say someone who's who would start from scratch. I have to Andy it's totally wrong. So not having any experience with making garments, understanding how a shirt is designed and stitched. You know, I relied on subject matter experts, and we failed miserably. So every shipment that we did, we had a lot of quality issues, I would end up getting penalised for the work we were doing. Very high rejection. So actually, I was losing a lot of money, even in the initial days of doing business. So yeah, it's not a rosy picture, as you were imagining, it was quite challenging. And I share with you a story. So as I was going through, you know, we were struggling for six, eight months. And, you know, I was trying to get business from this one export house. And they gave me a order a trial order of around 1500 pieces, and said, you know, if you can produce this in the right quality on time, then you know, we'll give you a much bigger order, big enough that we can take care of your entire month's production so I wouldn't have to worry about cash flow and stuff. So we went ahead I was very careful of you know, making sure We did everything right stood in the production line to make sure we we manufacture it correctly, went back with the finished goods. And the entire consignment was rejected, because we had just specked it out wrong. And I said, This is it. I think this is the end of the road for me. Interestingly, the export House said, Okay, we'll give you another chance, we're going to give you another 1000 pieces to work on this. So my team was quite excited. But I was curious, I was thinking, hold on. I've already messed up one order, and why are they giving me another chance. So I actually asked for, for a meeting with the owner of the export house who was a very busy man, not someone who would be interested in meeting a small vendor of this but I insisted so much that I said, I won't take the second trial order till I get to meet him. So I went in, you know, he give me some 20 minutes. Interestingly, when he started his career, he actually used to be a labourer for one of the factories that my father was managing. And this was 20, 25 years before I met him. And when he started on his own, my father had given him a personal loan to set up his business. So he kind of remembered that and, you know, wanted to just give, give that forward to me. So I was quite flawed and quite emotional about it. My father did not know any of this. So I actually said to this person, hey, rather than give me an order, can I come and work for you, because I want to really learn how you make garments, and really understand how to produce this in the right way. Right? So you know, he was happy to do that. But he said, go back and check with your father and his brothers if they will be happy. And I was a bit surprised. You know, that's, that's, that's funny. So I went back and asked my father, and we went and met my eldest uncle. And they were absolutely livid, right? They were like, there's no way you're going to go and work for someone, I'm like, You come from a business background, rather than work with your father and support him in his business, you now want to go and work somewhere else. And I was a bit shocked. And so I was trying to explain them, it's because I want to learn, I want to have my own business. But in order to do that, I want to go and work somewhere and learn, so they were not very happy about it. Long story short, my father actually supported that idea, he said go ahead, do that. So I would go first half of the day, to this export house, in the production lines to learn how to really make garments and have the right production. And then late afternoon evening, I would come back to my business and try and see, you know, what we were doing there and how I could salvage some of that. Did that for six months and realised, can't can manage both because I was having crazy long hours. So decided, and I was enjoying my work at this export house was not paying me a lot I was learning. So decided to then shut my business. And then just continue working full time at this export house, with a goal in mind that I'll do that for two years, really learn all the ins and outs of the business and then eventually go back and restart my business.

Andy: 23:10

What a wonderful story, there's so much in there. Thanks for sharing that. I'm thinking first of all, what struck me was this. You weren't comfortable with the second order. You thought, hang on, we just messed up the first order. This just doesn't add up. There's something not quite right here. Why are we getting the second order. So you had the kind of awareness to think this is not right. And then the curiosity to and the the tenacity if you like to push to say, I'm not doing this until I've met the boss and understood why. And then there's that wonderful part of it, where you're the paying forward or the paying back for previous support that your father had gave all without all behind the scenes as well without, you know, your father necessarily being aware of this. And that idea that you recognised you could learn from this organisation, which was a different part of the industry from what your family business was doing. That's how I understand it, though. It wasn't stuff you would learn with them. This was stuff that you needed to learn from someone else. And you you were smart enough to think I can go here and learn. And even if I'm not earning much, the experience will be valuable to me, and ultimately, it's going to support me and my own mission, which is to have my own business and I want to be good at it. So I'm going to learn and the fact that your cousins or uncles said no, no, absolutely not. Why would you do that? But your father said no, go and do that. That's sounds like a good idea. You go and do it. So yeah, wonderful.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 24:42

Yeah. So from from there interesting. And this. This owner, you know, Mr. Singh, he was really a hard working gentleman. I'm like, from seven in the morning to three four in the night he would be in the production house. basically on the shop floor, making sure things are working, right. And you pretty much follow the same thing you said, You know what, if you want to learn, you know, you want to be there and see what he does and how he takes it, he was a bit of a micromanager. Not that I understood what micromanagement meant that time. But he was very anal about quality, very specific about making sure everything ran efficiently and on time. So for him standing in that shop floor was his way of making sure he could control things. And you learn learn that from him. He was also someone who, you know, made sure that, you know, whatever his commitment to his buyers was, international buyers from companies like Marks and Spencer, he stuck to that. And his you always said, If you disappoint the customer, once, they never want to return. So his whole thing was, you know, right quality, right production on time, deliver on time, customers gonna be happy. And that for me, I always remember his view on what customer orientation means. And that helped me through my journey, as I grew in my career.

Andy: 26:09

So very focused on putting the customer first. So how long did you spend doing that?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 26:16

So I did that for almost two years. And, you know, I had obviously this basic goal in mind that I'll learn enough and then branch out into my business, but I was liking what I was doing. And then what really happened is one night I was coming back, probably around 1130 12. In the night, I bumped into my eldest cousin, he was coming back from work. So you know, he asked me, So, you know, I used to live on the 10th floor, he was on the 14th. And he asked me to just come over, and let's have dinner together. And, you know, we were sitting I had, I have a lot of respect for this person. And during dinner, he said, Hey, you know, what are you doing, working here in this export house. And he said, You know, I always thought, you are someone who's going to study a lot and do do an MBA and, you know, have a different career, and also not be part of the family business, because you've been a bit different. And I was a bit surprised and taken aback, right, because, you know, so far, what I had always got from the family was, you need to be part of the business, you need to support your dad, and here, you know, my eldest cousin was giving me a whole different view. And he looked at himself and said see, look at me, you know, I'm not very well educated, during my school days, I started going to business. And all I know is, you know how to run this business. But there's a lot more out there. So he said, you know, you may want to think and think about going back and doing this MBA that you wanted to do. And that got me thinking after that, that day, and you know, I'd seen my friends who had, you know, got MBAs or become chartered accountants and working at working for banks and MNCs. So gave it a bit of thought, spoke to my parents and said, Hey, I'm thinking about pausing what I'm doing here and start preparing for an MBA. And what do you guys think? Very supportive. Again, if you want to do that, let's do that. And in those days, I had this book called The Goal, it says in there that if you have a target in mind, then do everything that's possible in your hands to achieve that goal. Right. So, you know, I started listing down saying, Okay, if I want to do an MBA, then what do I need to do start preparing for an entrance exam. My goal of doing an MBA was then to get into corporate life and MNCs. So maybe, you know, leave what I'm doing now and join a company an MNC and gain some experience before I go for an MBA. So I had listed these two things. So I said, okay, and that made me quit the export house. And then I seeked to be a management trainee at a company that was making lubricants. So they had oil refineries. And I went there and as a management trainee, to basically experience corporate life. And again,

Andy: 28:56

And was that because they were an MNC, who were that were in your, you know, they were local, or they were somehow you knew about them, rather than a passion for lubricants, or

Anirudh Kejriwal: 29:07

Yeah, it was more of, you know, they were an MNC. And just through family network, got to know someone there and where it would be easy to get a job. So that's how I got introduced to that. For me, industry didn't matter. It was more of just experiencing of working in a more professional corporate setup.

Andy: 29:26

Yeah, that's what I'm, that's what I'm thinking Anirudh, the insight there is like you didn't narrow yourself down too far at that stage. It was just I want to get experience of working for a multinational corporation an MNC. And so here's one, here's one that I can get into or that I might have a better chance of getting into through my network. So that ticks the box. Let's aim for that first. Yeah.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 29:52

Right. And it was interesting. So I was part of the CFO team, working as internal consultants, so analysing different aspects of business, getting into financial planning, budgeting, defining a strategy for the company. And through that, I got a chance to interact with the MD, who had actually done his MBA from Wharton Business School, in US and come down. He was the owner's son, who's this MNC was, and interestingly, he told me, hey, you know, I understand you want to do an MBA. And he said, think about going outside India, and maybe going to US and doing an MBA. And his point was, you know, the exposure that you will get of living and working outside India is far more valuable than getting an MBA degree from anywhere, even from the best colleges in India. So that was another turning point for me, just to think through that and say, and I've seen him and you know, absolutely fantastic gentleman, and, you know, very smart. So, again, I went back to my parents and said, Hey, I want to do an MBA, and I'm thinking about doing it from US. What do you guys think? And, and my dad loved it. He was he was very supportive. He had a dream of having his children study and go abroad. So he said, Yeah, let's let's do it. Let's figure out how we can get you there. So switch my studies from the Indian entrance exams to to studying for GMAT. And again, I kept the same goal of in one year, take my GMAT, apply for MBA schools in the US, and then go there. So that's, that's how kind of I got to US then.

Andy: 31:31

Right. So where did you go? Where did you end up?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 31:35

So it was in 2001, is when I came to US, I was up in Case Western Reserve in Cleveland, Ohio. It's a small private school, known for working with a lot of consulting companies. So I wanted to basically get an MBA, and then join a consulting company. So that was the idea of then joining Case Western Reserve. So it's July 2001, is when I got there. And if you remember, September is when 911 happened. So the US economy took a hit think they went into recession. So not the best time to be in the school, in terms of getting exposure and building a network with companies and alumni. Because everyone was a bit insecure. But again, the experience of being in US and doing an MBA was fantastic.

Andy: 32:24

How international were your cohort at school,

Anirudh Kejriwal: 32:28

we were a group of 150 students. And I want to say at least 50% was International. Alright, so quite quite quite a diverse group. And of that, I think, around 20, 25 were from India, so also a strong contingent, and had a great time really made good friends. It was a good small college. So not not a very big college to be part of. It's a great experience.

Andy: 32:57

And had you travelled overseas before then Anirudh on holidays and things. Or was this your first experience?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 33:04

No, I had been to London once before and stayed there for a month. And so I had some experience of of going abroad. But the US was a whole different thing. As you know, it's not it's not London, and especially Cleveland, Ohio is is not like London, and I come from Bombay, which is a big city and 20 million population. And then getting to Cleveland, Ohio, which at that time, I would consider that as like a small town. Right. So that was a bit of a shock. Because what you see, you know US in movies and in Hollywood is quite different from being in Cleveland, Ohio. But it was great experience.

Andy: 33:41

It sounds very positive. It sounds like it was a good time for you. Did it fit your expectations in terms of leading into a consulting opportunity.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 33:52

So in your MBA, school, then you have between your first year and your second year, you normally do an internship programme. And the goal is you you find internship in a company that you want to have a career and they like you and you like the work, then you know, by the time you're done with your internship programme, they offer you a job. Now with 911 happening and just the companies being a bit more insecure. It was quite challenging to find an internship. And so what happened there is I started to contact anyone and everyone I knew in my network, through my network and friends and family to see if there were any opportunities. And I happened chance got connected with a person who was working then with BMW Financial Services. He then supported me to you know, I can I can submit your resume to HR and see if there's something coming up. So, again, real good timing because at that time the IT department at BMW Financial Services, was looking to start an internship programme, and I was one of the few resumes that they they got and next thing I know I was interviewing with them for a possible internship role. It wasn't what I was thinking about in terms of consulting. But given the situation, I was very happy that I was at least getting some kind of internship, which will give me experience of working in US.

Andy: 35:14

And that would have been in Columbus, Ohio, was it

Anirudh Kejriwal: 35:17

That was in Columbus, Ohio. Yes. So

Andy: 35:22

how far away is that from Cleveland?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 35:25

That's about 200 miles. So, you know, the idea would be is that for my summer vacation, I would basically move to Columbus and be there for three months and do the internship.

Andy: 35:38

So the internship went, Well, I would say

Anirudh Kejriwal: 35:42

It did. So from a workwise. It wasn't very exciting. But I think at that time, the management team was still figuring out what the whole internship is going to be about. But two gentlemen that I want to recognise one, the CIO, he was gentleman of Indian origin, Sanjay Chhabria. He, probably the smartest person I've met, he really took into me and kind of started giving me some work on budget planning. So basically, as a CIO, he was responsible for the entire Americas region. So not only the US market, IT budgeting for Canada, Brazil, I think Argentina, was there, Mexico. So coming from a finance background, he asked me to say, Hey, can you set up a budget framework, so it's easier for us to kind of manage the budget and track and you know, time and again, he would give me some work to do. So that kind of helped me and got me an opportunity to work with an executive and just understand his way of thinking, what are the KPIs that he was looking at? How was he trying to manage, you know, these different locations that came under him? That was really great. And second person, my reporting manager, Jeff Haskett, one of the most likeable managers I've worked for, he was all about, you know, creating the right team, you know, building cohesiveness, collaboration, really helping you learn about, you know, what they were doing, how you could kind of contribute, didn't make you feel that you're an intern made you feel part of the team. So I really enjoyed working with him, you know, and he got me involved with some of the estimation models as how IT was estimating on projects, how they were delivering some of the status reports into the businesses. So a lot of the project management pieces, he started to give me and say, Hey, can you think about how we could do it better, you know, where we could go with this, that got me quite exciting, because it was my forte in terms of coming from a finance background. But I was trying to tie some of that with what was happening real life in the IT world. So great experience, three months, I really enjoyed the work environment, and some of these things I was doing. And then what happened is, towards the end of my internship, Jeff came up and said, hey, you know, we're looking at building this framework to select and prioritise the IT projects that we do on an annual basis. And would you be interested in building this framework, which was quite exciting, because you basically, you know, the idea was that the executives would use that for the annual planning. So he offered me a part time internship, which would mean that I would basically be two days in Cleveland, attending school, and then drive to Columbus, and work three days a week there, and then go back and do that for 16 weeks. But I love working for Jeff love working for BMW. So I didn't even hesitate to say I'll do that. So I did that for 16 weeks, built the framework, you know, built a tool around that, which then the executives used for the whole project prioritisation and that's fantastic to see the CIO present that and, and a lot of people in BMW appreciated that model. And that thinking coming from US, and all in all, from an internship point, it was great experience and ended up doing some good work.

Andy: 38:59

So you had a good leader in Jeff, who was creating the right environment and very supportive, cohesive, he was building a cohesive team, and you could see the value in what you were doing, particularly with that project. At the end, you could see this is going to get you how it's going to get used by the executives, how it was going to get used by the business. And it was in your sweet spot. It was it was leveraging the experience you had and it was playing to your strengths and your experience in finance. There were lots of things in the right place, lots of things coming together to make that successful for you.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 39:32

Yeah, absolutely. And I think for me, Jeff played a very big part, right. So he, he set up the environment for me to be successful. So you know, we had challenges we had stickers in the project. But you know, what I saw is every time something came up, he just took it on him to figure out how you would solve that. And let me focus on building the framework, work with with other teams to come up with a model. And throughout process guided me and made sure the model. So it wasn't that I was just left on my own to do it. And I think that's, that's a mark of a good leader that, you know, they leverage your strengths and kind of help you mature and grow as you work. And I think that's what he was doing with me.

Andy: 40:17

So when it came to the end of that 16 weeks part time internship, what happened there?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 40:23

Yeah, so Jeff, he really wanted to have me and offered me a full time role. With BMW, the issue was that I needed to be sponsored, coming from India, I needed a company to sponsor them for my work permit to work in the US. And in those days, BMW was hesitant to do that. So again, Jeff, like, always introduced me to a few consulting companies who were more than happy to recruit me on their books sponsor my Visa. And then I could then go back to BMW as a consultant and work for Jeff, you know, which, which worked out well for me. And that's where I then got introduced to Centric Consulting, who basically helped me, you know, work in US and then go back to BMW as a consultant.

Andy: 41:10

And you are now you've got your MBA, you were working for a multinational corporation, you were living internationally working internationally. How was this feeling? Now? Was it feeling good? Was it feeling yeah, this is where I'm supposed to be? And how, what was the relationship like with the family back home and the family business? And just talk about what you can remember?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 41:38

Yeah, that's, that's, that's a that's a good question Andy. So for me, it was, it was kind of fitting into what my goal was about getting an MBA, and I did get into a consulting company, but then to work for a very well known company in BMW and things were quite comfortable there. On the home front, in India, my dad was struggling with his business. And what he was doing then was he was also wrapping up his textile business and moving towards commercialising the property and, you know, building offices and kind of getting into leasing model. So I would kind of support him from from US, we would have discussions on how he can go about and do that, you know, I have to say, there was a part of me always feeling guilty that I'm not there in India being with him, and, and kind of supporting him through that. But on the other hand, he was quite happy that, you know, I'm building a career independent of this family business. So for me, it was two worlds, but at the same time, something that I was looking forward to kind of continue building my career in the US

Andy: 42:41

how long did you spend working for BMW in in Ohio.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 42:46

So, in all, I worked with BMW as a consultant for another four years. So in all five years if you take my internship, and then four years more, and interestingly, I had moved from, you know, doing financial planning to a business analyst to then I was into project management and basically, managing IT projects for BMW with various departments. And one thing, which was very cool, there was, as an IT person to kind of implement projects and you know, system changes, you got an opportunity to go and sit down with the business teams, you know, various departments from customer service, collections, Credit Acceptance, and what they call active listening, really sit down and learn the business from the person who was doing it. Because once you understood the business, you could come back and then get better requirements, understand what you want to do from a system enhancement, process improvement. So I would spend a lot of time on the business side to a point that some people started considering me to be more business than IT, because I started to really get a very good understanding of the different aspects of running a financial services company. So I was not obviously technically qualified, I didn't have a technical background to be called an IT. I came from more of a business background. So I, again, leverage my strength of really understanding each department as to how to how to run, you know, so much to a point, if someone asked me to be a collection agent, I think I would do a pretty decent job because I'd spent so much time there and, you know, listening to calls and you know, different strategies of how you collected money.

Andy: 44:26

Yeah. So you were in that position where you were, your role requires you to understand as much as possible about all aspects of the business, which could be helpful.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 44:37

Yeah, and I have to admit, so definitely Jeff kind of pushed me to do that, you know, but at some point, there was a change. Jeff Haskett moved on to another role, and I had another new manager called Mark Davidson, a tough boss, but he almost forced me to do that. So Andy, I would do, I would bring up lunch and kind of sit on my desk and have lunch by myself. And he noticed that a few times and then basically made it mandatory for me that I have to go and meet someone new on the business side, and do lunch with them, and get to know them. Right? If he would see on my me on my desk, he would come and say, Hey, what are you doing here? Why aren't you going and talking to XYZ department? Do you know this? Do you know that? And I used to not like that because I felt he was micromanaging me but in hindsight, he was one who took me out of that shell of just being myself and pushing me to go and meet people. And that was great, because you basically then had no choice. You got to know people and you got to know, you know, the different aspects of the business.

Andy: 45:43

Interesting what you can look back on now and see as being helpful from what might have been mildly irritating at the time. Okay, and so tell us what happened. Tell us how this journey progressed.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 45:59

So, you know, I was I was having a very, very comfortable life, let me say, from a work point of view, but then I got married, you know, my wife was with me in US.

Andy: 46:10

How did you meet your wife Anirudh? Did you meet your wife in the US?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 46:16

No, she was in India, we were introduced by our parents. And we spent some time talking and getting to know each other on the internet. And then I think, week one, I knew she was the one it took me a month and a half to convince her that I'm the right person. You know, that's how we kind of, you know, hooked up and got married. Yeah.

Andy: 46:38

Right. So it was an introduction from your parents? Is it? Is it what the the I'm thinking that term arranged marriage? Would it be? Would you classify it as that?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 46:49

I would. But the positive there was we had a choice. So it wasn't a formal setting, it was more of hey, we know this person, if you would like to talk to her, and, and same ways, and then that we will have to learn, right? So it wasn't that you were forced to get to marry whoever they choose, which I appreciated. And they realise, you know, being in US, it would be difficult for me to just accept someone that they had liked. So I had the I and my wife had the bandwidth of saying no, if you if you weren't happy with, you know our choices.

Andy: 47:22

Right? But it was you didn't and it was it's yes, you say within a week, you were sure she was the one. And so she came out and joined you in India? sorry, in America then in the US.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 47:35

Yeah, absolutely. So that was like one condition I had, or she asked me is what if I don't get a visa to come to US ? And when we were getting married, and this was back in 2004. And, you know, I didn't even blink. I said, Well, if you don't get a visa, then I'll just wrap up and come back to India. Right? So there's no way I'm going to live in US you in India when we are married. So I was very clear on that with her and her parents. And fortunately for us, she got a visa. There weren't any issues.

Andy: 48:06

Okay, I'll let you get back to your career story in a second. But just one more question. You went back to India and had, just say a little bit about Indian weddings, because I've had only heard stories, but they sound quite incredible. And I think would be interesting to some of my listeners who may also not be that familiar?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 48:23

Yeah, like Indian weddings can be anywhere from three days to a week have a few hundreds to 1000s of people. In our case, we did the same. We had a a week long wedding with different functions. Andy I almost felt like a guest because I came in I flew down. You know, I was there for a week and a half, I think or two weeks, and felt like a guest because everything was arranged for me from my parents and, and my wife and I went through the rituals. I actually had friends from US a couple of people who had worked with me, were working with me in BMW, a couple of friends from school, they came down to attend the wedding and it was a blast because they were experiencing the whole Indian wedding coming from US and then to my commitment, you know, I made sure that we both flew back together newly married my wife back to US, so that you know, we could start our journey together there. And if I may share another episode there. Andy so, you know, my like I said my my manager then Mark Davidson, right, tough boss taskmaster. For me a micromanager. Interestingly, when I got married and went back, he invited you know, my wife and me over for dinner and turned out to be like the sweetest person right after that. Right so in a to a point that he told my wife you know, you're new in US. Make sure your husband's not working too hard. Make sure he shows comes back home on time, you know, offered to support my wife to get get around US and Columbus Ohio, and that was great, right? I'm like, I didn't expect that coming from Mark. But he realised that kind of my life's changing, I have another person at home, and gave me the bandwidth to kind of help my wife settle, you know, without the pressures of work. And I really appreciated that.

Andy: 50:18

I always like to ask how the partners get on in these international moves. So how did your wife find moving to Ohio?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 50:27

Yeah, initially, I think was a big step for her. So she hadn't travelled abroad much it was her first experience. But she was open to the adventure, you know, she used to drive in India. But then, you know, to learn how to drive in US get a licence, meet friends, start a new life, it takes a bit of more time Andy than, for us, because you know, you're going to work and you you meet and get exposed to a lot more people. But overall, she enjoyed her life in US and once you get through that first hump of getting to a new place, then things get easier and US is a great place, right? Very friendly people, very welcoming. So you don't necessarily feel intimidated of being in a new place. And Columbus, Ohio, was this a great place to be?

Andy: 51:18

Thank you, I'll let you get back to your career journey.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 51:22

So I'd been there for four years at BMW, interestingly, I was having lunch with with Jeff, and giving him my view of you know, how life has been very nice, smooth, and very comfortable with what I'm doing. And he asked me, So how's project work? And how are you liking that? And I said, No issues and all's good. If I have an issue, then I know who to talk to. And, you know, I've been here long enough to understand how things work. And almost midway he goes, I think it's time for you to leave BMW. And I was a bit shocked. really shocked. What what are you saying Jeff? Have you heard something, you know, has someone come in and suggested something to you? And he said, Hey, looks like you're very comfortable, right? And if you want to grow, then you need to step out, right? Because he knew coming into US, BMW was the first company I started working for. So he got me thinking that yeah, if I, you know, I can't be a contractor, consultant, all my life in BMW, I need to step out and experience other clients, other other projects. So I went back to Centric Consulting, you know, and, you know, the company had grown from when I joined around 30 40 people, to now a few hundreds, you know, they were a pure play consulting company, establishing their presence in Midwest. So I went back to them and spoke about moving from BMW, you know, getting into some of the other client engagements. And they were very supportive of the fact they understood, you know, where I was with my career journey. And it took us a bit of time around six months to kind of, you know, work things out with BMW, and for them to find me and engagement. But finally, around 2000 2007, I think I was able to then step out from BMW and start my true consulting journey with Centric Consulting.

Andy: 53:13

So that would have meant still being able to stay where you were, though, geographically.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 53:19

Yes, I was still in Columbus, Ohio. So from a sponsorship work permit, nothing changed. Because you know, Centric was sponsoring that the and Centric's model is about kind of working in your communities. So there's very limited travel. And that helped, because with kind of my wife establishing herself in Columbus also, it helped, that I didn't have to travel. And then it was great, because I got into very different engagements. So one of my first ones was writing HR policies for the university in Columbus. Right, I had no experience, but to work with some of the senior consultants and kind of understand how you analyse the situation, understand research on policies, research on what happens from a university point of view, kind of sub building processes and policies was great, right? So it's different experience. And then I got put on to system implementation and end to end system implementation for a reinsurance company. And this was probably the first big project that Centric was doing for an insurance company. And everything that you can think that can go wrong with the system implementation is what we experienced two or three solutions that we had to integrate and implement were just not talking to each other. There was a lot of integration issues. We had very legacy systems where we had to then, you know, migrate data from a lot of issues from a project management point of view. And we were a group of 10 12 people in Centric that were responsible and working together. This client was up in Michigan. So we also had to be on a model where we were travelling up to Michigan, which was different from how Centric was set up long, long hours. So we were working probably 16 18 hours a day. No Sundays, no, no weekend's no holidays, because we were very, we were really behind schedule. But for me, just having that experience of working with this team, and doing our best to implement the system, was another great experience to go through in seeing how you do a system implementation for a company.

Andy: 55:29

So lots of different experiences you were being exposed to and all coming down to that lunch with Jeff, where he said, You sounds like you're getting a bit too comfortable. If you want to grow, you need to get out. Unfortunately, that's true, isn't it, it's a bit of a cliche that you grow by getting out of your comfort zone, when you get out of your comfort zone, you find is not very comfortable. That's why they call it a comfort zone. I remember when I first realised I realised that chestnut, so you were out there getting some completely different experience, there was some consistency there, you were able to stay in the same place, you didn't have to move, again, to do that you were with the same company ultimately Centric. So while some of it was consistent, there was a lot of new stuff going on and a lot of development opportunity for you.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 56:21

Yeah, absolutely. And, and there Andy again, I worked with one of the senior partners, Chad Caldwell, who basically was the practice head for the insurance practice and kind of managing the plan. And, you know, we were going through all this challenging time with the project system implementation, so he really got an answer, you know, I'm going to help manage the project. And what is interesting is he would stay up all night with us, while we were working and trying to get ready for next day's client presentation, he would be literally working around the clock with us, you know, making sure the dev team was available, we as testing team, project managers were available when needed, and very empathetic to the situation, right, very supportive to what we're doing. And for me, that was great right to experience a senior leader, be involved with every aspect of what we were going through and helping us guide and manage things. But at the same point, being very humble of the fact that this was a challenge that we all had to get together, resolve. And I really appreciated that from centric management. So a lot of learnings just observing someone like him, lead a team and take them through this crisis mode, which was again, you know, someone being younger, has great experience, too, just to see that leadership.

Andy: 57:41

Yeah, he was modelling really good leadership behaviour. You could see from your perspective. So that was a project which everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong. So absolutely full of potential learnings for you, and some great leadership you had on that project, which would have brought in extra value for you. Right, once that was done, what? Where did you go to then.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 58:06

So eventually, we implemented parts of the system, what was happening then also, Andy is back home, my dad was really in financial trouble, and he was getting into depression and things like that. So a point came in time in 2019, where I had to then decide, do I continue living in US just building my career or should I go back and support him? So I decided to move back towards the end of 2009, big decision, my wife supported, understood what we were doing was not happy about moving back to India, but but supported that decision. So we started preparing to move back to India, I was talking to friends, letting them know, this is where things are. And through, you know, my networks and BMW, got to know that BMW Financial Services was looking at setting up shop in India around the same time. And if I would be interested in going there and heading IT as part of their setup team. So happened chance I was a bit surprised to get get that call. I actually then spoke to some of my mentors, Sanjay and Jeff and Mark, to understand, hey, what do you guys think? Because I was not from a technical background right. And in setting up an IT shop, means you need to have some some technical background at least, they were convinced I could do it, I had spent enough time in the IT side to be able to manage that. So I moved to India and then join BMW as the IT manager. So I was told I need to only worry about application implementations and you know, the infrastructure and all will be taken care of by another group in IT. As you know, in BMW it was divided infrastructure was with one organisation of the IT and application development and support was another. So that's what got me back to India in 2000, early 2010 and then joined BMW Financial Services as a setup team here in 2018.

Andy: 1:00:00

And I try to keep my own business out of this. But I can't help but be distracted now thinking that at that time 2009 2010, I would have been sitting in Singapore at a desk next to a Alusch Amogli, who I think was quite quite involved in setting up that team and getting the business going there. So I'm just thinking I would have probably been within earshot, because he's quite a passionate talker, I would have been in earshot of some of the conversations about bringing that team together. So wonderful that you got that opportunity again, you said you weren't sure if you could do it. But you spoke to some of your mentors, Jeff and Mark and, and they thought you could do it. And so that's one of those situations where if people you trust who you think have got a good handle on what the situation is likely to be. And they have a good handle on you. Sometimes that's what helps you make the step is knowing that okay, well, they think I can do it, then I guess they must be right, is that one of those situations?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:01:05

It is, interestingly is my my reporting manager in BMW was a gentleman named Klaus Hopstock, who was in Germany, he had called someone who I'd worked with in US, Kevin Hoffman, to get kind of feedback about me. And you know, one of the people who had also spoken was Kevin in US. So he had already given Klaus a view of who I was, what was my background? So interestingly, when Klaus interviewed me, being a true German came straight to the point said, Hey, I know what you've done. I've spoken to Kevin, right, I'm okay to proceed, if you want to proceed. And that was pretty much my interview there, didn't have to really talk about my credentials which was just fantastic right. So I went with the confidence that people had heard about me and knew exactly what I can do and what I cannot.

Andy: 1:01:59

So the key stakeholders, if you like, Your reputation preceded the the work you've done. And the statements from stakeholders, people who could comment really did the hard work for you. You'd done the hard work, you'd done the hard work by delivering good work historically, and being somebody who those people were prepared to speak highly of and confident, you could do the job and sounds good Anirudh.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:02:29

Yeah, no, probably. Right. So there was there were reference points. And I think there were a few others who had moved from US to Germany. So within within the network, at least, you know, I wasn't a new new person. I knew a few people who had moved from US to Germany. You know, Shankar he had moved from US, we used to work together in US to Singapore, he was then part of the regional coffers team. So I had some connections with people and I could reach out to them also understand, what was BMW trying to do in India? And you know, whether that that was a fitment for me also.

Andy: 1:03:04

Yeah, so Shankar he was a guest of mine for an episode A little while ago. We're talking about BMW people. And we're, it's a BMW conversation. But the bit that I think is interesting is the networking, leveraging your network. And it's recognising that there are different people involved and you need you know, the support or lack of from other people can completely affect whether you get a role or not, you need the right people saying you can do it. So that applies in whatever organisation you're in. So very, very relevant and helpful. Thanks Anirudh.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:03:45

Yeah, I think not only the organization's absolutely agree, you know, having network, but even in your personal life, right, if it's about finding references and connecting with them, and, you know, relating with them. So it is it is about, you know, having a network, and people you can trust on their judgments on how you move forward. That's always been the case with me. Yeah. So I was I was back in India, with with BMW. So interestingly, I knew I had to implement the systems, the applications, but I was also tasked with setting up the office, which meant also then putting the infrastructure landscape in place, I had no clue on how to do that. But it was a task given. So again, leverage people that I knew there was an IT manager on the sales side, who came from an infrastructure background. So he supported me to really start understanding what also was water networks, which is how do we need to lay down the fibre? How does that connect with the whole Munich world but again, a great experience it was almost like you were part of a startup, and you had to do anything and everything. And the other piece was Andy for me is since I've spent so much time in BMW in US on the business side, and really spend time with the different departments, I could bring in a lot of that knowledge, that understanding of how BMW works in US to be part of the business discussions on in India, as they were setting up and hiring people, I could be part of the discussions, I understood the business model, I could also give my views on, you know, how things were done in US. So, that was another plus point. And a third third piece was, as you know, Alan Crookes, you know, he was by then the regional director responsible for India, he was trying to build a culture, very similar in the, in the region, and in India, very similar to what what it was in US. And that was the other piece that I could bring in, in terms of creating this very open transparent culture where people enjoyed working. So that was the other thing that I said I could, I could kind of leverage and, and influence the organisation in a positive way. And so for me, working back in India was kind of relating to my past experience in the US, where I love working for BMW and trying to bring that those aspects into working in India.

Andy: 1:06:13

So you were able to make a significant contribution way beyond the particular subject matter. That might have been the remit for your role it was you were a senior leader and contributor to the business in the startup phase in India.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:06:29

And I always took India as a stepping stone for me to do more things in BMW, because I felt moving back from US from, you know, my consulting days and Centric to now, setting up this IT shop in BMW was a bit of a step down from where I was in US. So I always took that as a stepping stone, to then see where I could go with with my career within BMW. And one of the things I learned very quickly is that within India, being the size of the organisation in the business, in order for me to grow, I will have to step out of IT move towards business and operations, if I wanted to stay within India, or step out of India and go to a bigger market, where then I could manage IT or move to the business. So that was, you know, something that I had to be prepared to do. Also just leave BMW and then do something else in India if I want to join another organisation in my career.

Andy: 1:07:30

And were you aware of that, before you even came back to India? Were you having those thoughts about what your longer term plan might be?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:07:40

No. So you know, again, my, my motive of coming back then was to kind of be with my father and kind of help stabilise his part of the business. And the after fact, was, hey, there's a BMW opportunity. So at that time, I was not thinking in those terms. But while I was in India, obviously being then in India, I could help my father kind of streamline his his business stabilise that to a point where I could go back and start thinking about my career and where I want to go. And I realised that I didn't want to be part of my dad's business. For me, I didn't see a lot of opportunities. I was liking what I was doing, and you know, in the corporate life, so I wanted to kind of build on that.

Andy: 1:08:22

And was the rest of the family? How were they finding the fact that you were carving a different life for yourself, if you like, or a different career for yourself?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:08:32

Yeah, I'm like, by then I think they were fine. They were comfortable with the fact that I'm now you know, looking at more of a career outside my family's business, I think they were comfortable with the fact my wife was not really happy about being in India, you know, she obviously had enjoyed her time in US. And you know, she used to work there. So coming back to India, it was a bit of challenge for her to find a job. And in a way, I was also trying to figure out my way, my career within BMW and where I stood. So I started to, you know, send out a lot of feelers to people to senior management in BMW, to understand from them, you know, if I want to grow in, you know, within BMW, what could be my options? What could be the different paths I could take with my managers Klaus Hopstock, and then it was Max Bansal having a very open discussion about, you know, my experience, my background to where I was in India, and what I could do to kind of move up or move to another market. And it was always about asking them advice, saying, This is where I want to go, tell me how I can get there as against, just tell me how you know, what opportunities are available. So I always feel that it's a match, right? You have to share what your aspirations are. And then seek advice from people who can give you some options and then try and build your career accordingly. So I started doing that not only on the IT side, but also with leaders on the business side whether it was the CFO, the MD, got a chance to speak to Alan and kind of understand and ask him what his view was what I could do differently, to grow within BMW.

Andy: 1:10:10

Very, very helpful Anirudh, just talking to people, knowing what you wanted, knowing what your own aspirations were, having an appreciation of what that might entail, it might mean, moving out of this department, or it might mean moving out of this market. Or it might mean moving out of this organisation. But that's what I want to do. And then explain that share that vision with with others who would have valuable input and ask them for their thoughts on how you might get there. What steps to take Yeah.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:10:46

And that kind of helped me right, because what happened is, one is an opportunity came up in Korea, where the IT manager then had quit his job. And the IT organisation was going through a bit of a turmoil, there had been a lot of attrition, they had not been able to deliver their project. So my boss at that time, Max called me and said, Hey, you always wanted to do something bigger. Here's an opportunity to go to Korea. At the same time, another gentleman Stefan Schlipp, he had moved from the Asia Pacific region, to heading the importers market. And he was setting up a shop in the Middle East, in Dubai with Ozzie, right. So he reached out to me to ask about if I knew someone within IT, who would like to be an IT manager. And we talked about it. And you know, one thing led to the other and said, you know, maybe I could go there and head operations, since I had a business background. And I actually interviewed with, with Ozzie over a weekend to see if that could be a possibility. And Ozzy liked me. So I had two opportunities out of the blue one moving to Dubai, moving to operations, which was kind of my dream job to go to, or going to Korea, a much bigger market and heading IT there. And being in India wanting to go to operations, Dubai seemed very accessible, and something that both my wife and I were excited. Interestingly, I did not know. But, you know, the senior management and Alan Crookes had other ideas in mind, because they were thinking about getting me to Malaysia at some point, and head operations there. So, the horsetrading that I think was, I go to Korea, stabilise IT, implement the regional solution for our retail application in Korea, I'd already done that in India, and then move to Malaysia as head of operations, and really streamline the operations process. And as I do that, also implement the regional solution there. So use my kind of IT background to do that, which was then very lucrative, right, because Malaysia is a much bigger market, managing our operations, there will be quite exciting as against going to Dubai. And then you know, I always feel that when senior management taps on your shoulder and points you in a direction, it makes sense to do that, because you know, they have skin in the game and will support you to be successful. So I chose to then do a one year stint in Korea, and then move to Malaysia when that happens.

Andy: 1:13:20

And did your wife go with you to Korea?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:13:23

Yeah, I'm like, so we had twin boys, just six months before, when this opportunity came up. And I thought, there is no way we're moving now. Right. But interestingly, when I told her, Hey, there's a chance to go to Korea, she was like, when when can we leave India, she was just not comfortable being in India at that point. So that was a that was a great support, she being happy. And what we ended up doing is, in the first six months, she stayed with my parents in Bombay, you know, when I went to Korea, because it was during winters, and then she joined me for the next six months, before we then move to Malaysia.

Andy: 1:14:01

So very international, very agile, really, you're moving around, you've got to plan Anirudh, you know what you want to progress, you've got a network, you're asking for advice, you're recognising that when senior leadership say we want you to go in this direction, then it's a good thing to do because they will, as you say, have skin in the game and support you to be successful. So and the family back home, have now accepted that. Okay, there might have been an expectation once upon a time that you'd go into the family business, but it all makes sense what you're doing and you've got a happy wife and two lovely twin boys. So it all sounds like it's going pretty well.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:14:47

To some extent, yes. Right. Because you you were getting opportunities that kind of helped you grow, but obviously, within that there's always challenges like Korea, you know, it was a challenging assignment. You know, when I go out there, I had a team, which was totally dysfunctional. Pretty much everyone in the organisation blamed IT for not performing because the systems were not at par. We had systems that we had not retired for years, there wasn't a clear landscape, IT landscape in place, had missed a lot of deadlines and implementing new systems. So it was quite challenging. And I had a CEO, who did not agree with the rest of the senior management plan of having me in Korea for a year and then kind of moving to Malaysia. So straightaway, he was very clear that as long as I delivered what was committed to him, he would release me if not that he wouldn't let me go. So it was a big risk I was taking, I then got down to understand what were the initiatives, what we had to do. And the way it was planned was, you know, you were gonna implement a set of three different systems, retire the old ones, and they were all to be done sequentially. And this was with a team that had lost their confidence, their motivation to work. So I said, There's no way we'll ever get this all done in a year, because my personal goal was finish it off in a year and then move to Malaysia. If I stuck to that plan, probably take two three years and knowing the past performance, I could be stuck there forever. Right. So I kind of renegotiated with with the CEO said, hey, I'll do this, but give me a few weeks to figure out what's the best way to approach it. So then I worked with the programme managers with our implementation partners. And I came back with a plan to say we do it in one big bang. So rather than do it sequentially, we're going to do all together one release, right? One shot, massive risk. But I knew if we had to be successful, this is the only way we're going to do it. Right? And the CEO gave me the look, say, Hey, listen, if this doesn't work, then this is your last assignment at BMW, right? This is it. And my my boss, Max Pretzel, ever supportive. Also asked me, are you sure you what to go this way. Because this is massive, right? The whole company is going to wait for one big release, a lot of different stakeholders to manage all the dealers, all the different departments. But I said yes, knowing the situation, knowing how things are, if you want to be successful, we need to have one focus, everyone needs to look at just one target, and go for it. And I actually used that to motivate the team. You know, I explained them the goal, this is all we should think about. If you remember the there's a song by Frank Sinatra, my way. So we would go for karaoke nights. And we would sing this top of our voice. And I would turn it around and say, This is our way, this is how we're doing it. And, and the whole team, all Koreans really rallied behind this, that here was someone who was ready to lead everyone to just getting this, this going, I found a successor. For me, so that was another target. And what I told him is, you focus on the day to day IT operations, I'll take care of all these projects, because if we fail, it's on me. I may be out but at least you can stay in and stabilise the team. So it was great eight, nine months, I think the entire team rallied around me, the business, a lot of support from them once they understood the plan. And fortunately for me, we were very successful in implementing the systems retiring old systems and I had made my way out from from Korea in a year's time.

Andy: 1:18:36

Yeah. That was that was I'm glad you mentioned that because I did have the sense that you're doing this because I've got a plane to catch.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:18:46

Well, yeah, that was there. But I also knew given the situation, you would not you know, because any project team, any programme team, you know, they're excited for the first implementation may be excited for the second and then they start losing steam, right. And people leave. And you know, knowing how projects systems are implemented in big organisations, it can take forever. So you have to create focus, you have to create a team that you can rally around. And remember Andy in those days, it wasn't the Agile way of project methodology. This was waterfall, right? So you you waited for all requirements, you waited for development, and then you implement it, today's age with agile, you're doing incremental changes. And that makes sense, right? Because then people are excited about every release every, you know, Sprint, but in those days with this waterfall, teams lost steam and I didn't want to be in a situation with a demotivated team, that if one if you fail in the first goal, then the next three releases were going to fail. So it was also a bit planning on understanding the situation at that time.

Andy: 1:19:53

And I love the image of you and the team singing karaoke and your own version of my way, just recognising the holistic nature of taking a team on a journey and hearts and minds and everything that happens that together allows you to be successful in that role, and catch your plane and get to Malaysia for the next assignment as well.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:20:21

And what is great Andy is the same team that was dysfunctional. And where the business blame was the same team that performed, they were the ones along with our implementation partners, who implemented the systems got the entire IT landscape streamlined, you know, I was not the one doing it, right, I had just come in from outside. So it wasn't that I was responsible for those system implementations. So what I learned from that, it's about just taking ownership, and then leveraging on strengths of the team, getting them to understand that they work together, we can be more successful. And that's what we kind of proved to ourselves at the end of the day, that one goal, one target, everyone focus to that can do wonders.

Andy: 1:21:10

Yeah, so those individuals who were part of that dysfunctional team, it was the same individuals who then were part of the successful team. So maybe maybe they weren't the issue. It was about the environment and the leadership and so on. So we're now fast well not really fast forward, but we're into Malaysia, then it's the next, your next opportunity

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:21:36

Yeah, and Malaysia for me was, you know, the first time I was in the management circles as someone heading operations, being part of the CEO, CFO team, taking part in bigger business decisions, and great experience, I had a CEO Mike Wetherall, my favourite CEO, mentor, because someone you know, who was absolutely honest, authentic leader, very transparent, shared his ideas, his thoughts, he was all about collaboration, no politics. So he created an environment for us, you know, in the management team, to kind of respect each other and really work for the business understand, you know, what we were doing, and it was a bit of change, time of change in Malaysia, it was a company, you know, BMW had acquired, you know, six, seven years back, the first team of management was there, was tasked to bring in this new company into BMW world. And then there hadn't been a change so the focus on kind of building efficiencies, thinking from a profitability point of view, those are missing. So we were brought in at that time, you know, it Mike and all of us to start thinking about how we can improve on the business. And as it is great to see how Mike worked, analyse the different business lines understood, which were not profitable, you know, made a decision to close them down, focus on, you know, building quality, focusing on having the right profitability, looking at the systems. And, you know, this is where I came in to start understanding what we could change how we should implement new systems, how do we make our processes more robust, you know, and to work with them. So going through that change was a great experience with Mike and the team.

Andy: 1:23:20

So you'd had you'd lead a successful implementation in Korea, you'd moved to Malaysia, you were now working with your favourite CEO, and mentor Mike Wetherall. And that business had been acquired, and had been integrated into BMW, I know quite well, myself, because it was the back office for our operation when I was in Singapore. So I spent quite a lot of time travelling up that road from Singapore to Kuala Lumpa. And visiting the colleagues in the office and working and it was a very, very happy memories for me of doing that. When you came in, which was after that you are entering the business was entering its next stage, then the focus was on efficiencies and profitability. And that's what you were working on with Mike and you were able to bring your expertise to that or your technology experience to that looking at the processes and systems and working out what could be done, what what you could change, and that was a positive experience for you then Anirudh.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:24:19

That's right Andy and also, for me, this was the first time I was going to be you know, in a management or a senior management role, part of the you know, what we call the executive committee. So just being part of those discussions, understanding how the business should be run overall, what are the things we should be looking at? It was a great learning experience for me. And, you know, as we went through in terms of evaluating the overall profitability of the business, we had to make some important decisions on actually closing down some of the business lines where we were not profitable. So having that view and being part of those discussions with the CFO with Mike was fantastic. The other piece going in, I had a vision, I had a goal saying that, you know, maybe Malaysia, once we get their operations up and running and stable and efficient, could be a possibility of having a regional service centre there. So bringing in operations for other markets, because there was a lot of shared services work being done out of Malaysia for other companies, unknowing to me, you know, that was a strategy that, you know, our regional head, Alan also was having, where he had insourced work from Japan into Australia, and had started developing a regional service centre. And I think it was my second year in Malaysia when the decision was taken that we will also move our operations from Malaysia into the regional service centre. In one sense, it didn't make sense, because from a labour arbitrage, from a cost point of view, Australia is probably three times higher than Malaysia. But on the other hand, from a regional strategy, there were a lot of positives, right, because as you consolidate business, for the entire region, there were more expensive markets like Korea and Japan, if they were consolidated in one area, and Australia was being one of the more mature organisations and structure. I think, overall regionally, that would be beneficial for the region. So I was tasked with working on the programme and the plan to do this. And for me, it was probably the most challenging assignment because I had to literally tell 50 people in my team, that at the end of this, you're going to lose your job, you will be redundant. But the whole process of going through with Mike was fantastic right. Like I said, He's someone who's very honest, a very transparent individual. So we came up with a plan that six months in advance, We informed the organisation of our strategy of moving operations, explain them, why we were doing, you know worked then with everyone to either find options for them to find something in house and different role, or then work with them on a severance package, plus look for a job outside. So for me, by the end of that six months, when we have transition to the RSC, out of the 50 people that we let go 48 people already had a plan in place as to where they were going, either, you know, a lot of them actually started their own business, a lot of people moved to other roles or other companies, there were only two individuals who did not because one was retiring, and the other one, he decided to take the severance and travel the world. And that was just to go through it was challenging as a leader to sit across 50 good people and say, Hey, you're going to lose your job. But I took it as something I own, didn't want to hide behind that this is a company strategy, or this is a decision from senior management, you know, I was equally part of the decision. So wanted to be upfront talking about that. And the fact the way we did it, how we managed this whole transition, I felt very proud at the end of the day. And for me, that was a great learning experience, you know, as a young manager, young leader, to go through that exercise with someone like Mike, who guided us through the whole process, you know, of how we should transition to, to an RSC.

Andy: 1:28:20

Well, congratulations that that sounds like a heck of an achievement, to get yourself through that. And at the end of it for 48 people to have somewhere to go, a plan and two to be retiring or travelling. Wonderful. When you first announced it, though, what was the reaction? And how long did it take for people to trust your intentions there and to not panic, and you make it sound quite straightforward. Anirudh, but I'm sure it was slightly messy and complicated in the actual application of it.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:28:52

That's right. So first of all, you know Andy, we spent months, maybe a couple of months planning the whole process, when we're going to make an announcement how that would be. So we had a whole plan in place, we would announce it to the operations team, we would then announce it to the entire company. And straight away after that. The plan was that we would then sit down with each individual who would be redundant, HR and myself as head of operations, and then talk about options. And you know, obviously people were shocked. And I got all sorts of reaction, right? So some people just kept quiet. Some people showed their anger. Some people were crying. And we had hired a consultant, you know who's done this, and to guide us in what we should do and actually made us watch this movie Up In The Air, which is George Clooney. He goes around firing people. And there are things where you say, you know, they teach you that hey, you don't say sorry, you don't feel remorse for the people. But it was tough, I have to say right, because you are just sitting there taking all these reactions, and you have to stand by your decision. You You have to say this is the decision that we are going with from a strategy point of view, which makes sense for Malaysia makes sense for the region make sense for BMW, and then help people understand how we're going to take this forward? What is the support we're going to provide? It's six months out. So you know, individually how I could support them, but as an organisation, how are we going to support it? And for me, the fact that we did it well in advance, and we were very transparent with people, I think that helped people absorb it. You know, I remember the next day in the morning coming in. Obviously, the entire company was very demotivated. But we went out individually, to talk to people do not hide behind my cabin, or stay in my cabin. Because I wanted people to react. Right? And there were questions, there were things that people were asking. And I stood there amongst the people to talk about it so that everyone could hear, you know, what we were doing and how it was going to pan out, I would say, for me, individually, just the most challenging period, to go through as a leader to stand there and just give factual answers to what's happening and how we're going to proceed with it.

Andy: 1:31:14

You needed those people to stay focused, and for the next six months, yes. And how did you make that happen?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:31:24

We did have a retention bonus for all the people who stayed till the end. So that was something from a compensatory basis. But the other piece that we started doing as a team is, we said, we are all in it together. Right? Let's work together to find a plan for each person. Right. So a lot of people had been in the organisation from the start, it was probably their first or second job. So hadn't created a resume for a long time. So we started supporting them in building a resume, we had a recruiting company that was helping them find jobs, interview there, I personally sat down with a lot of people to do mock interviews, to guide them on, you know, what could be different options. And at the same time, they realise that it's a transition period we need their support. So when they were seeing a lot of us do this kind of support them in finding opportunities, there was a bit of sense of bonding. And actually, I don't remember if there were many who left before the sixth month, I think everyone stayed till the very end. And you know, we had a by the end, because since everyone had found an option, and a lot of them were saving a lot of money through their severance, it was almost like we celebrated them leaving towards the end, we had a big party on the last day and people felt genuinely good about what was happening.

Andy: 1:32:45

It sounds like a very human approach you took very open, I'm picturing now that you've created this, understanding this transparency, where the whole organisation knows that there are certain amongst us who are going to be made redundant at the end of this period. And we can all help them over the next six months to find their next place their next role. And if you look around, you'll see that we the leadership team are getting involved, and we're helping them as well. We're modelling that behaviour. I can understand you being proud of that result Anirudh and it being very challenging, but also something you can look back on and feel that no, we did that in a good way.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:33:36

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there are things more important beyond numbers, beyond salaries, compensation severences. And I think that's the human touch, you know, what we call empathy. And this is why for me, Mike was my favourite CEO, because, you know, he was all of that, right? He was very honest, transparent with us. And he supported us when we were doing this. So at the end of the day, I always say, how you do things is more important than what you do, or what you achieve. If you go back and think about all the people you know, who helped you in your career, who are your mentors, at least I remember the ones who, you know, I learned from and who I liked working with, that's my memory. And that's what I want to make sure I can do with with my team and, and that's why even though the most challenging period for me, I feel good about the fact on how we did things there

Andy: 1:34:32

you've reminded me of, I think it's Maya Angelou, a quote and I'm probably going to absolutely mangle it but it's something like you know, people won't remember what you said or what you did. They'll remember how you made them feel. And that's what came to my mind when you were talking about working with people you trust and enjoy working with and want to want to support want to be with so Very interesting. Thanks, Anirudh. So, did you stick around after, after that, or what happened?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:35:08

Well, so interesting right, in that you can't be heading operations if you don't have an operations team. So in a way I was,

Andy: 1:35:15

I should have, I walked into that didn't I, I should have realised that you wouldn't have an operations department anymore. So what happened

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:35:25

So, you know, obviously, I realised that as we were working on this, there was a small team of 10 people that were staying behind. In Malaysia, there was work where you would have to liase on with, with Australia, but for me, that was not a role that would excite me. So I knew I was kind of walking into that. And this is where I started talking to Mike and other mentors in the organisation. The other thing that was happening is I started realising that I'm seeing a lot of growth in BMW. And for the first time, I started thinking about more senior roles and a possibility of even being a future CEO in a market. And Mike guided me on that. And he said, Well, if that's where you want to go, then one of the things you need to start thinking about is working in Munich at the headquarters. So you can build your network and understand how things work at a senior BMW level. So we started then working on my next role and trying to find what could be different opportunities within Munich and the headquarters. In a sense, it helped me through my visits, I had built networks, I had built contacts, and there was a bit of a demand for someone like me, who had done different markets had worked in different roles. So my next step was then Munich, so what, you know, the the HR came up with was a bit of a kind of a bootcamp for me, where in two years, I would basically rotate through three departments. They hadn't done this before, at this level with someone but you know, knowing that I was coming out of many different markets roles. So I had first six months, the plan was, I would be in the in the global operations team. next six months, I would be on the risk team. And then I would spend the rest six months or 12 months on the strategy team to just get a more rounded experience.

Andy: 1:37:16

Which did you prefer out of those,

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:37:19

you know, operations was my background, I came from IT and operations. So that was a bit comfortable, knew a lot of people strategy excited me, you know, we had implemented the strategy and strategy I was in Malaysia. So that is something I liked. And then before I left for Munich, also came up with the second final plan for Malaysia in terms of strategy so I kind of facilitated that. So I was excited about these two roles. You know, I'm not a quant guy, and I didn't want to get into risk and you know, variance, analysis and, and stuff, but I really like the person who was heading risk. So my point was that, okay, if I'm going, I'm going in for this leader, just learning from him. So I started off with operations. And long story short, I only managed to do eight months in operations, the global operations team, and then remainder, you know, 12 months in strategy. Before then I made my next move.

Andy: 1:38:20

So you didn't get into the risk area?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:38:23

I did not get into the risk. Yeah. So there was, um, like, by then, you know, there was a change in the senior leadership team. So at one point, I think BMW was quite supportive of having expats moving around, building their careers to different markets and headquarters, with the challenges in the automotive industry and financially, and a change in senior leadership. There was a bit of a mindset of that we need to slow down on some of these expat movements. So I was seeing that a lot of expats in Munich were then being sent back to their markets. So I then decided, maybe it's a good time to then move back to my next role.

Andy: 1:39:03

And what was the next role?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:39:05

So Andy like I, like I said, I had by then started thinking about being a future CEO in a market and talking to the senior leaders in BMW, you know, one was doing an assignment in the headquarters. But then, since I came from IT and operations, a lot of people advise either I go in on a financial role, a stream of becoming a CFO, and then eventually a CEO, or I should be looking at doing a sales and marketing role. That gets me to being more into business development, and eventually a CEO. So I started looking at opportunities. Interestingly, the opportunities I started getting were more on operation side, from bigger markets. They were possible opportunities in China within the APAC region. There was some opportunities that could be possible going back to US, a more senior role. And those were quite exciting right for me. So there was a time when I started leaning towards that saying, you know, maybe being head of operations in China is bigger in terms of, you know, level and higher in terms of level and designation than being a CEO in a small market, maybe I should start thinking about that, the same thing for US. And I went with this problem statement to a mentor of mine. And I said, Hey, this is what's happening, you know, I wanted to do sales, but not getting many opportunities within sales, but I'm getting these bigger roles. And he listened to me. And then he said, So what's the story you want to have Anirudh? Where Where do you want to go? And what do you want people to know? Right? Are you someone who wants to take whatever role to get to a senior level, right, from a manager to a general manager to a vice president, right, in BMW terms? Or are you someone who wants to, you know, have a goal of running a business unit and being a CEO and being in charge for a market? What's your story? Where do you want to be? And, you know, I always wanted to kind of be responsible and accountable for, you know, bigger units and manage things my own. And that meant that I should be focused more on being a CEO as against chasing a level in the organisation? And he said, well, that answers your question, then you need to find a role that gets you there, as against chase these levels. And that that really then put things in perspective for me. So I went back and started sending feelers that I'm looking for a sales role. And so my, when I moved from Malaysia, I had then, you know, Mike had moved to Japan by then, as a CEO. And there was another gentleman, Tobias who came in. So I was talking to him, and he was talking about restructuring the sales organisation in Malaysia. So since I had been there, I understood the strategy where the the market was going, you know, we got talking, and he offered me an opportunity saying maybe you can come back and help me run the sales and marketing. So I would say the norm in BMW is you don't go back to a market price, you try and just go to different markets. But for me, the role was more important than the market. So I decided to then go back. So after a two year stint in Munich, I went back to Malaysia now heading sales and marketing. So total 360, from the last time I was there, heading operations, to now heading sales and marketing.

Andy: 1:42:30

Yeah, that's an unusual one. And really interesting, what the mentor said about, you know, thinking about what is it you actually want? What are you? Who are you what is your story? And that helped you answered the question. So then you knew you had to double down and find that sales opportunity. And in very interesting that you got it back in the market that you, you'd come from?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:42:54

Yeah, the experience was, it was interesting. So you know, now now you're out there, working with the dealers working the sales company. And a lot of people I knew from my past of being head of operations, right. So it was an interesting experience. So I went back in April of 2019. You know, before I'd really settled in, what was unfortunate is, I lost my parents in a span of two months. So my father passed away in September, and then my mother in November of 2019. And that kind of shook me a bit of, you know, I had to spend a lot of time in India, and at the same time, trying to restructure the sales team and manage things. So, I would say a, quite a challenging phase to go through that got a lot of support from Tobias and and the management team there during that difficult period. But at the same time, the expectation was that, hey, I'm able to also deliver on what was happening in terms of the sales side and targets and things. So it was it was a challenging period. I think some of the restructuring that we did was a bit immature, I think people were not ready for that change. And that threw another challenge to trying to manage the team. And then COVID Hit the first quarter of 2020. So I at one point felt okay, everything that can go wrong with you is happening now. Right, because, you know, I lost my parents, the the business that I was trying to stay away from my dad's business, it now came to me and I got responsible, there's no one else who can manage that it was thrown at me. I was stuck in Malaysia because of COVID. So I couldn't travel. And then you had the the sales pressure because everything is shut dealers are shut, but you still have targets and you still don't want to at that time, we were, you know, more concern of how do we manage the portfolio, you know, debts were rising? How are you going to control that? So, things were in a bit of a turmoil. And for me, as a team as an organisation in one sense we did a very good job in controlling our sales and managing our sales and controlling our debt, you know, we converted the entire sales team into collections so that they could call the customers they had sold and financed the car to start collecting money very difficult. But since I had done collections, I was able to kind of get in and support the operations team, you know, we had to come up with very quick system changes, to manage some of the central bank changes in terms of moratorium that we had to offer customers, within I think, six weeks or something, we came up with the online sales channel to be able to sell cars and finance cars. So a lot of my process and IT background kind of supported or helped me in kind of working with a team to build that. So a lot of these small wins, trying to basically do the best you can during COVID times. But at the same time, for me, what I realised is the pressure that we were putting on the team, right? A lot of times, we were not being very pragmatic of how we were going through and trying to get stuff done. For me, that's not the kind of leadership I kind of relate to, for me, it's about motivating the team, working with them being empathetic about the situation, and then getting the best results out of them. This was more of a top down, this is what we need to do. All Hands down, let's just get the work done, which the crisis period require. But there are better ways to do that. So I was in a bit of conflict saying this is the new change in leadership, if it's all target focus, if it's all numbers driven, is this, you know, an organisation that I want to be there long enough. So that was one one thought going in my mind. The other piece was, obviously I had to figure out what am I going to do with, you know, my dad's business in India? And do I go back and move back to India, you know, be back with whatever remaining family I had. So I'd given myself a year, that I don't want to take any emotional decisions. But in a year's time, I need to decide where I want to go next.

Andy: 1:47:01

Let me just jump in, if I may Anirudh. There was so obviously very interesting contrast between the leadership that Mike Wetherall his style during the transition from the operations into the RSC and then different leader in the COVID times and you wrestling with, with how that felt to you and how that challenged your own values and beliefs about how things can be done or should be done. Then, you mentioned you'd given, I love this idea, you're giving yourself 12 months without making any emotional decisions. So you had the maturity, if you like to know, I'm not really in a good position, this is not a good time to be making any decisions, because I can't trust my judgement in this situation, or that's how I'm interpreting that please correct me if I've gone too far.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:47:52

No, that's right. So that was my initial view right, because there was a lot of people in India, who were expecting me to come back and manage things at home, but it was what I needed to think through. Because I knew that's not a business I want to return to or I want to manage. So it was also about understanding, you know, where do I take my career? You know, I had obviously children and I need to think about their future also of how I want to progress. So that was there. I do have to recognise one person, a very close friend of mine. And you probably know him. Jacob Dimmick. So he had been with when I was in Malaysia, the first round heading operations, he was the head of sales and marketing. And, you know, I call him as a true transformational leader. very empathetic, goes deep in building relationship. So he and I had become very good friends. And Andy I have to tell you, you know, what I went through, he made sure that he was available for me 24/7. So I think literally every third day, he would call and just talk to an extent, he went out of his way he conducted international HR. And he got me talking to someone in the international just saying, Hey, if you need a sabbatical, right, we'll work this out for you. And this is not going through the leadership ranks in BMW. This was he just picking up a contact within HR that he knew and saying, Hey, here's someone who may need support, you know, can you just talk to him? And I was like, Hey, I don't need these things. Right. I'm fine. And I was trying to be strong, but he was there listening, and then, you know, what I was going through, personally, at work, and I was reaching out to him for advice. You know, he was helping me think through on a lot of topics. So, you know, when I told them Hey, and I will take a year to think through before I start making decisions, you know, he said, that's probably the best approach, right? Don't you know, make a decision on emotions, ride it out, see how things go. So he helped me mature in all my thinking also.

Andy: 1:50:02

Yeah, he's I had the pleasure and the privilege to meet him back in 2006. And yeah, wonderful. I've known him since then. Wonderful, wonderful human being, it's great to have that level of support in a colleague. Yeah, yeah. He went above and beyond didn't he really, that sounds very, very supportive.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:50:21

He did Andy, the other piece he obviously did is he connected with people that I had good relationships, like, good example is again, Mike Wetherall, right. And then he had Mike reaching out to me out of the blue, not knowing behind the scenes, he was getting people to just connect with me. And that helped, right, because obviously, I was not sharing everything with these individuals. But the fact that they were just having a call with me random call, seeing how things were what was happening from a work point. And, and these are mentors that I would reach out from time to time, was also fantastic, right. So a lot of emotional support, a lot of support from a way indirectly, is what he was providing. And that helped, helped me think through where I wanted to go and what I wanted to do next, to a point where, you know, I started to think through and obviously, my wife, through all of this was a fantastic support, she saw, you know, what I was going through emotionally, and stood by me in those decisions. So, there came a point in time where I realised that for for the family, the best decision would be is to go back and take care of my dad's obligations, you know, I decided that I will not continue with the business. But if I need to wrap up things, get it to a point where I don't need to be involved, I need to do that. Because there were people that were involved, you know, there were, they were lives that mattered, that part of the business, as the owner's son, I still had, you know, responsibility for them. I couldn't shy away and walk away from that, you know, there were people working for my dad. So there was that sense of responsibility. So the decision was, yep, need to go back to India, need to focus at least for some time, in figuring out what I want to do with that business. And, you know, taking care of that, which meant if I need to step away from my career for a period, then that's the right thing to do. Because I wouldn't be just just to go. So that was one thought that was going in. I then obviously, as I was going through, and as it's happened with me in times, around the same time, I had, you know, my ex partner from Centric, Chad, who, you know, I had a lot of respect for, sends me a message on LinkedIn, say, Hey, can we chat, and has a call and says, you know, how things and I'm telling him about my sob story of my parents passing away? And he goes, I'm so sorry to hear that. Hey, listen, man. We have an opportunity. You know, we've set up a shop in India, we're looking at a change in management, would you be interested? And I'm like, you know, Chad, probably would have said no, because I'm having a very good career in BMW, but I'm rethinking on moving to India. So yes, I don't mind thinking about it. And he goes, Great, I'll have someone talk to you. And thank you, bye. And that's it, that was the phone call, And that is Chad, when he when he listens to that he'll appreciate it. But the fact for me was that here's someone who I had a lot of respect for, after years, call me and it's not that I was in touch with him on this one, you know, has the confidence or trust that maybe I could be a contender was was fantastic. And then we had, he had some of the other partners who were involved with the India operations, get in touch with me, one of them, who actually, you know, I didn't know him very well. I've known him when I was in US. And in centric, he actually flew down to meet me and spent a couple of days with us. And Andy I felt like I was meeting an old friend came over had dinner with us. I took him around KL and we just spent a day not talking anything about work or centric or centric India, only towards the end, we were sitting in a bar having a drink. And then we talked about, you know, what's the operations like, you know, what's the structure? What, what are they thinking about what the future looks like? And then he left, you know, and he said, Hey, think about it. And I came back home and I told my wife, I think I know where I'm going next. It was interesting. Like, you know, we not talk any numbers, you know, we don't know what's next, but I thought I was pretty much there. And by then, I think, with BMW already made up my mind that I'll be leaving the organisation. So yeah, that's, you know, some luck there.

Andy: 1:54:45

Yeah, it's a lovely example of people refer to it as the universe but the universe sort of steps in and provides when, when necessary, and you were going back, it sounded like because it was the right thing to do, you had obligations as the your father's son, the son of the owner of the business there were, as you put it lives that matter in that business, and you needed to go and do the right thing. But before you even got on a plane and went back to India, there's something that you could be a bit excited about and felt good about going to. So he'd he'd flown out to KL, to talk to you, and to get to know you. And I love that idea that you spent a couple of days just looking around showing him chatting about stuff. And then towards the end of the visit, you sit down in a bar and start getting into a bit more serious conversation about the opportunity and the business. So so that got you presumably put a little bit of a spring in your step as you headed back home?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:55:50

It did, right. So to be honest, I had to figure out now in another way, right? How am I going to manage and take care of my dad's business and things but also do justice to this new role. And I was, I think, very transparent and upfront, with the partners in centric, saying this is the situation so I wasn't sure whether I will stay in Bombay were my dad's business is, or move to Gregau, where were the centric office is, and they were very open. And they said, Yep, no issues, you know, you can figure that out. And they were already in a hybrid workspace. So before the pandemic hit, people in centric in India only went to office once or twice a week. So, you know, they were used to that centric in US doesn't have an office, everyone works from home last 20 years. So for them from a cultural point it you know, it was fine, it's about what's comfortable for you. And you know, they provide you that flexibility. So that's what initially we went back to Bombay, we were there for four or five months, and we had to make a choice, where do we get the children's schooling, right, because once you kind of hone on that, then everything else falls in place. And probably the first time I was actually making decisions based on family, it's always been about my career and moving and, and, and my wife has been very supportive, to the point that she's let go of her opportunities every time we moved. So I wanted to give her that that view that this is, it's a family thing, it's an emotional piece. And I want to make sure I do this right for the children. And wherever we go, you know, at least I commit to it with fingers crossed, that it's more than three, four years in that in that place, right? I don't want to have a BMW every three, four years, you were moving. So I said, this is more long term. So yeah, that it worked fine. You know, we then decided we go to move to Gregau, where the office is it made more sense. And there it helped me to slowly kind of stabilise things on my dad's side and parts of the business, I was able to sell off so that I don't need to worry about it, there are things that I can manage on the site. So that's, that's taken care of. And I can then focus on this new role of managing an offshore development centre for a consulting company that's in US based and kind of help build and grow this organisation.

Andy: 1:58:09

Wonderful Anirudh. So what a fantastic journey, you've had very international, and you've spoken about it very openly and thoughtfully in this conversation. So thank you for that. Is there anything I haven't asked you? That I should have asked you? Do you want to say a few words about centric? Do you want to give a little plug for the business that you're running? Now? It's quite a big and rapidly growing business in India, isn't it?

Anirudh Kejriwal: 1:58:39

That is correct. Right. So it's a captive consulting company, the offshore development for a US based company. What's unique about centric is the culture. Like I said, it's 20 years in the making all remote working work from home, it is truly an employee centric organisation, and a client centric organisations. You know, we talk about providing unmatched experiences for our clients and employees, an organisation that I can relate to right, because my role is about developing future leaders. It's creating an environment employees are first, truly first, it's a privately led organisation. So we don't need to stress about numbers and profitability. Yes, that's important. But the culture is about doing the right thing from a client point of view, or from an employee point of view. And this is what I've learned, right, from my mentors, from the leaders that I've appreciated working for. So for me, this is like, taking all of that experience, taking all that advice, and now having the chance to implement that. And for me, that's what I'm loving my role. It's growing. I keep reminding myself it's not about growth, it's about sustainable growth. You know, making sure the we can keep the culture intact, a lot of challenges, but that's what excites me. So that's what I've been doing Andy for the last 18 months now

Andy: 2:00:03

we've got to know you over the last over the course of this conversation and understood how the culture you would want to be part of and the culture you would want to create and develop as the leader of an organisation. And I can really understand how it sounds very much like, this is the culture you want, fine, you're in a responsible position where you can create the culture in your operating unit in India. But it sounds like the culture is already from the US is the sort of culture you would want to be part of. And brilliant. Oh, what a happy ending. I mean, it's been a great story. And a happy story it's had some sad moments as life does have. But it seems you've come to land back home almost well not quite back home. You're not in Mumbai. You're in Gurgaon. But you're in your home country. Your family have got some stability. Your wife's been absolutely wonderful on this journey, incredibly supportive, made her sacrifices and stuck by you through the tough times. And you're back now in your home country with some stability in a culture and developing a culture and developing leaders. All sounds absolutely marvellous Anirudh. So thank you again, so much for joining me and sharing your story.

Anirudh Kejriwal: 2:01:22

Thank you, Andy, thank you for having me. It's giving me an opportunity to reflect back on my journey. And it's been wonderful. So really appreciate that. Thank you.

Andy: 2:01:30

You're very welcome. Thank you. You've been listening to Career-view Mirror with me, Andy follows, I hope you found some helpful points to reflect on in Anirudh's story that can help you with your own career journey or that of those you'd lead parent or mentor, you are unique. And during my conversation with Anirudh, you'll have picked up on topics that resonate with you. A few things I noticed were his early entrepreneurial experience making garments, how he saw the value in going to work at the export business to understand how that works. The cousin, who took him to one side and reminded him of his MBA aspirations, how he set himself goals and ultimately joined a multinational corporation. He went to the US to do an MBA with a view to getting into consultancy. And as often happens, events didn't match the vision exactly. But he did find his way into BMW. He experienced some good leadership and mentorship from the people there. Eventually, he recognised that he needed to get out of his comfort zone to grow. And that led to a change which gave him exposure to different and challenging projects. Then his existing relationship with BMW led to a new opportunity, setting up BMW Financial Services in India. And in that took him to Korea and Malaysia, to Germany back to Malaysia in sales and marketing. He told us how he had to let go of 50 people and how they did it with compassion, and a plan. And I noticed how different leadership styles can influence whether people stay around to develop their career, or are susceptible to external approaches. He's now found a role with a culture that he values and appreciates. And he's back in his home country. Again, you can contact Anirudh via LinkedIn. And we'll put a link in the show notes to this episode. We publish these episodes to celebrate my guests careers, listen to their stories and learn from their experiences. And I'm genuinely interested in what resonated with you. Thank you to all of you for sharing your feedback. Thanks also to Hannah, and to Julia, who is part of the Career-view Mirror team here at Aquilae. work so hard to deliver these episodes to you. And remember folks if you know people who would benefit from hearing these stories, please show them how to find us. Thanks for listening