Stefan Dekker: Shaping the future of electricity and shaping the future of business culture.

Stefan is the VP for New Markets for the Norwegian EV Charging start-up Easee. After spending the last 2,5 years setting up the Benelux market and building the foundations he is now part of a small team duplicating that effort and helping Easee expand further into Europe and beyond. Easee has two missions, Shaping the future of electricity and shaping the future of business culture.  

Growing up, Stefan always had the desire to explore and move outside the comfort of his small home town. After a few years figuring out what he wanted to do, his passion for cars lead him to working at Tesla. He was there in the early days of trying to explain why a car manufacturer had a showroom in a fancy shopping street in Amsterdam to delivering the first Model S in the UK. He took what started out as a frustration, how to deal with customer trade in vehicles and built it into a successful Used car & Remarketing program for the UK, combining the traditional car industry with the new ‘Tesla’ way of doing things. 

In our conversation we go into more detail about his journey so far, how he obtained the roles he's held, how he missed out on some others and how with the benefit of hindsight that was not necessarily a bad thing at all. 

Stefan is open and fun and shares his story with energy and passion. I'm grateful to him for creating his episode with me and I’m pleased to have this opportunity to introduce him to you in this way. As always, I look forward to hearing what resonates with you. 

If you enjoy listening to my guests career stories, please follow CAREER-VIEW MIRROR in your podcast app.  

You can contact Stefan via LinkedIn 

Why not follow us on Instagram @careerviewmirror where you can see a directory of all our episodes and comment on those you have enjoyed. 

 
This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by Aquilae.  

Aquilae's mission is to enable Fulfilling Performance in the auto finance and mobility industry, internationally. Adopting our Fulfilling Performance Paradigm helps you identify what steps you need to take to enable Fulfilling Performance for yourself, your team and your business. Contact cvm@aquilae.co.uk for a no obligation conversation about your situation. 

Email: cvm@aquilae.co.uk 

Episode recorded on 8 August 2022

Transcript

Stefan Dekker: 0:00

I don't think that there would be a lot of founders in this world that would say, hey, random person I just met through another person. Here's a bunch of money to go and set up a business. After I've just met you a few times and good luck we, you know, I trust that you do that.

Andy: 0:17

Welcome to Career-view Mirror the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers so far, sharing insights to help you with your own journey. I'm your host Andy follows Stefan Dekker listeners. Stefan is the VP for New Markets for the Norwegian EV charging startup Easee. After spending the last two and a half years setting up the Benelux market and building the foundations, he's now part of a small team duplicating that effort, and helping Easee expand further into Europe and beyond. Easee has two missions, shaping the future of electricity and shaping the future of business culture. Growing up, Stefan always had the desire to explore and move outside the comfort of his small hometown. After a few years figuring out what he wanted to do, his passion for cars led him to working at Tesla. He was there in the early days of trying to explain why a car manufacturer had a showroom in a fancy shopping street in Amsterdam to delivering the first Model S in the UK. He took what started out as a frustration how to deal with customer trade in vehicles and built it into a successful used car and remarketing programme for the UK, combining the traditional car industry with the new Tesla way of doing things. In our conversation, we go into more detail about his journey so far, how he obtained the roles he's had, how he missed out on some others, and how with the benefit of hindsight, that was not necessarily a bad thing at all. Stefan is open and fun and shares his story with energy and passion. I'm grateful to him for creating his episode with me, and I'm pleased to have this opportunity to introduce him to you in this way. As always, I look forward to hearing what resonates with you. If you enjoy listening to my guests career stories, please follow Career-view Mirror in your podcast app.

Aquilae Academy: 2:29

This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by the Aquilae Academy. At the Academy we turn individual development into a team sport. We bring together small groups of leaders from non competing organisations to form their very own academy team. We build strong connection between team members and create a great environment for sharing and learning. We introduce the team to content that can help them tackle their current challenges. And we hold them accountable to take the actions that they decide at their priorities. We say we hold our team members feet to the fire of their best intentions. We do this internationally with teams across the world. If you'd like to learn more about the academy, go to www.aquilae.co.uk.

Andy: 3:15

Hello, Stefan and welcome. Where are you coming to us from today?

Stefan Dekker: 3:20

Hi, me. I'm coming from my apartment in Amsterdam in the Netherlands today.

Andy: 3:26

Very good. Thank you very much for joining me. And where did your journey start? Where were you born? Where did you grow up?

Stefan Dekker: 3:33

So I was born in a relatively small town in the north of the Netherlands. And I guess I spent most of my childhood there until I was a teenager.

Andy: 3:42

What was that called?

Stefan Dekker: 3:44

It's a place called Zoswolden. It's a small, I would say farmers town with approximately five to 7000 people depending if you like calculate the whole area or just the core of the city. But yeah, it's a very nice rural town in the north.

Andy: 4:02

Right. Okay. And I'm going to ask you a little bit about your family and growing up because I'm interested in what jobs my guests had visibility of when they were growing up. Because sometimes that's often that is an influence. We just we know the jobs we've seen and we lean off in that direction. So what were your parents, what did you see them do or other family members?

Stefan Dekker: 4:24

So my parents have had a shop for most of their lives or actually for their entire lives. And it's a family shop that's been in the family since 1929, I think from the top of my head, and it's evolved from being a store that sells like a haberdashery type store that sells buttons and zippers and fabrics to furniture and upholstery to being a fashion store and sells men's and women's wear. And at some point in my my father's life he choose to start well like develop his own little shop. So he set up his own little shop that's developed into the men and women's wear shop that it is today. And parts of the business sort of expanded into different multiple businesses, but it started off as one local shop.

Andy: 5:16

Right. So I'm thinking entrepreneurial, and I'm also thinking probably well known in the community, is it if it's not a huge area that you're from? Is it a shop that people and it's been there since 1929? As you say, is it a name that people know? Well in the city?

Stefan Dekker: 5:32

Yeah, with my surname itself is quite a common from the region. So everyone always thinks that everyone's family, but that's not true. But the shop itself and the family, like, my parents and my family have always been there and have always been in and around the town, so sort of everyone knows who you are. And the shop was named after my dad. So everyone knows if you tell them your surname, they say, Oh, you're a son of type thing. And yeah, it's it's been an interesting, I guess, a way of experience I never really thought about it until I moved away from it. And I've actually taken some people to the town and people call it Dekkerville because of my surname. And because there's a lot of other shops that are called Dekker. And when you drive into the town, there's I think there's now two or three shops actually called ones my uncle, ones, my father's nephew, and ones, my, my dad's shop. They're all called Dekker. And they all have it in their name. And so you see it on the on the outside. So yeah, I can't remember who came up with the with the Dekkerville, but it's been called that.

Andy: 6:41

I love it. I love it. Yeah. And have you done any time in the shop?

Stefan Dekker: 6:47

Yeah, actually, officially, when I was about like, 16 to like 19, I guess I would always help. But from whenever I can remember, as a kid I was always involved or in, in and around the shop. It was a big part of our lives when we were growing up. And I always enjoyed going along the trips with my dad, when you know when you have to buy the new collections. Whenever I was off, or whenever I was in school holidays, I would enjoy going with my dad to buy the new collections and see all these different brands. And it was sort of always part of our everyday life in the house. My mum worked in the shop for most of her life as well as in like, contributed. She's originally a dental nurse, I think that's what she was trained to do. And she had a period in her life where she did that. But when we were a little bit older, as far as I can remember, she was always part of the shop, or at least used to work in the shop. Couple days a week.

Andy: 7:46

What about brothers and sisters? Do you have any brothers and sisters?

Stefan Dekker: 7:49

Yeah, so I have an older sister, and I have a younger brother. So I'm the middle child,

Andy: 7:54

middle child, do you think that had any impact for you?

Stefan Dekker: 7:57

It probably had, because I differ quite a lot from my sister. And I guess as the first male in the family sounds a bit maybe a bit strange. But like I was, especially when I was a teenager, I was always wanted to go out and doing more things. And I guess my sister was a little bit more quiet than I was. So I sort of had to set the boundaries. And I think that benefited my brother in the end, in terms of he was always allowed to stay out later than I was. But I think besides that, I don't know if any, any other particularities that contributed to it So I guess it depends a little bit about what

Andy: 8:33

Okay, okay. And what about school Stefan? And what kind of a student were you ? phase in my life. So at primary school, I was always like the rowdy kid, I was always there and pretty loud, I guess, very distracted to the rest of the classes. And then, at the end of your primary school in the Netherlands, they make you do this test where they sort of, I guess grade you or suggest your next steps. And there's different for high school, there's different gradations or different levels of school that you can follow. And they sort of advised me to do like the lowest grade possible, because I was so distracting to everyone. And I was probably better to do something with my hands or you know, something tangible, instead of going to follow an academic career. However, I think when I, I saw loads of my friends going to high school and I wanted to go with my friends. So I went with my friends. And the first three years I didn't really change much. But then again, all the teachers said that, you know, I had to really step up my game because I was so distracted and I really had to like change something otherwise I would have probably be kept back a year. And that was the last thing I wanted to do. So I changed the level And I sort of became more serious for whatever reason. And I passed all my tests, and I was a more of a quieter student during high school. So when you were coming towards the end of high school, what sort of ideas did you have? How clear were you about what you wanted to do? What direction to go in?

Stefan Dekker: 10:18

I was absolutely not clear at all. I remember, I, I think I remember the moment where so like, in Dutch High School in the system, they make you choose what they call a profile. So there's different types of profiles. There's two that are more focused on like the better type courses and studies so they they are more where they teach you math and biology and chemistry, whereas the other ones teach you more about culture or society, economics and marketing and sales. So I chose a profile that was more aligned with the second one. And I think there were things I found out that there were things I found interesting. And then I was able to focus and get the things done and less of a distraction. And I think that made me realise, at least I thought I realised what direction I wanted to go into. But I had no clear understanding of what I wanted to do, I had a rough idea of like, okay, these are the things I enjoy doing,

Andy: 11:24

what sort of things were they?

Stefan Dekker: 11:26

I always wanted a non office job, because I don't know, I never saw myself sitting in front of my computer. And that probably had a lot of thing a lot of to do with the fact that I was like, I had these not difficulties focusing, but like when it was always super distracted in the class. And I sort of assumed it was similar when you have an office job. So I always wanted to do something, you know, either work in a shop, or be a car salesman, or at least be around people and be on your feet all day, rather than sitting in front of a computer and doing that.

Andy: 12:03

And so with that in mind when it came to choosing a university course, what did you do?

Stefan Dekker: 12:08

Well, so I was very young. So I am what they call like a young student. So I was 16 when I actually finished high school, and had to go and choose my bachelor degree.

Andy: 12:19

Wow, how come you are so young Is that normal in the Netherlands.

Stefan Dekker: 12:22

So there's this cutoff, where they either hold you back a year, or they let you progress. So as I guess, my first year as a kid in school, so I was born in September, and then this was just before the cutoff. So I turned 17, in, in September, in the year I went to university. So I was I was super young, I wanted to do something International. Like for whatever reason, I was always drawn by, like moving away and doing something International, I guess, seeing seeing the world. So I choose to do this international business studies. But on the first day, we did all these rounds of introductions, and I was by far the youngest, this was a course that was mainly taken by people that either finished the course already. So there were people that were 23, 24. And I was 17. So after a few months, I realised like this is just not for me back then I thought like, Oh, there's another direction I want to go in. But looking back now I I see I was just too young, not ready to take on something so serious.

Andy: 13:27

Now you're an international businessman,

Stefan Dekker: 13:29

Yeah it's funny how things change. But it was a course that was it was very focused on, you know, business structures, and it had accounting and it had very serious courses, whereas I wanted to do something that was a little more forgiving, maybe you know, you can make a mistake in some to calculate something, or if you have to do a balance sheet, if you make a mistake, it has an immediate impact. Whereas if you talk yourself through a marketing subject, it was always a lot easier. So I guess that had a little bit to do with it. And so I had some conversations at the university about what direction to take and what courses were available. And I was really focused on keeping it International. And I really wanted to have that element in there. So like either go study abroad somewhere or do like an internship. And they had this course that was called commercial economics. And it's essentially a course for sales and marketing. But up to your own initiative, you can do a minor or six months semester abroad or you can take an internship abroad, it was sort of up to yourself to do that. So I chose to do that. And I actually from the start, I immediately felt more at home and people more my age they were a little bit younger crowd. But I think I also matured a little bit in the few months where I had to make these decisions. Yeah, I don't know, I just felt at home I guess,

Andy: 15:05

can you remember at all, where this idea of wanting to have some kind of international element came from

Stefan Dekker: 15:14

not in particular, for whatever reason, I always, I was always fascinated by speaking other languages and like speaking in English. I don't know why. But as far as I can remember, I was always fascinated by that it was always part of like my motivation to make these decisions that I wanted to do something where I could go abroad, I could go to a different country and explore.

Andy: 15:39

So you have that learning experience of starting the initial programme, and realising that you were the youngest. And maybe it was not quite what you'd anticipated and having having to navigate, negotiate with the university, navigate your way into a different programme and finding the commercial economics option. And then, as you say, growing up a little bit through the process of realising, oh, I'm gonna have to change what I'm doing here and have to try and persuade them to let me do that, etc. And then you found yourself and commercial economics was you were much more at home in that topic. And how did that go for you?

Stefan Dekker: 16:18

The first few years were like, I'd never struggled in the sense that I never thought anything was that hard. I was a bit unfortunate, because I started in February, I was in like a February programme. But they changed the curriculum from that September, so is it like half in the old curriculum and half and a new, which just made things a little bit messy, which also meant that I spend six or nine months longer than anticipated on doing on doing it, because it was like when you had to resit some things it just took longer, I think the biggest realisation I had was that as long as they were the courses and the subjects that I enjoyed doing, I had no issue with them, but there is always some bits that you don't enjoy as much. And I think I always struggled to keep my focus. And I always had to push myself and work really hard to continue to do them and to either not give up and still, you know, pass the test and pass the exams, because they were kind of part of the programme.

Andy: 17:28

They started to recognise though, that there were some topics that you were just more naturally disposed towards found the more interesting, easy to engage with. And there were others where you had to be quite disciplined about it, and sort of forcing yourself through.

Stefan Dekker: 17:44

Yeah, and again, it was the marketing thing that was what I was drawn more most towards, like, being creative. I always thought I was going to be a salesman, you know, because I thought, I'm a good talker. And I enjoy being around people enjoy chatting, and I think during the courses, and during I always was more drawn to the marketing stuff, and like creating something beautiful. And, you know, doing a marketing campaign or a brand identity or something like that.

Andy: 18:17

And so when it came towards the end of that programme, were you getting some ideas about where you wanted to go.

Stefan Dekker: 18:23

No, I think during like the four and a half years or five years of the course, I always thought you know what, I'm going to finish this, walk into some sort of an account managers job, get company, car, a phone and you know, that's going to be like my first step and I'll love it, or a marketing job, you know, like the very, I guess natural outflows of what the course offered. But when it sort of came to the end of it, I wasn't and I wasn't looking forward to any of that. So I was working at a restaurant back then. And I was sort of half finishing up the last bits and working and then I realised I was actually enjoying working more than finishing it up. So it took a little bit longer

Andy: 19:12

had you done a year or some placements overseas as part of the programme?

Stefan Dekker: 19:17

Yeah, so I did a Erasmus six months in Granada in the south of Spain, and a internship in London at a language slash scholarship company. And yeah, I enjoyed both of them very, very much. I studied in Granada, the University of Granada in the south of Spain. And like I've never been so uncomfortable in my entire life and I was super, super happy go lucky and it was funny because I always wanted to go to the US. So I signed up to do this, this six month with us in Flagstaff, Arizona. And when it came down to I guess when you had to fill in the forms I was filling them in. And we had these, like this day at the university. And for the US, you had to do all these tests and you had visa requirements, and you had to do, I think it's called the TEFEL test, which is basically an indication of your level of English, that gives you a certificate in order to prove that you can understand and comprehend the courses that you're about to follow. And it was, to me it was sort of like, so much effort, and I don't really want to, like, I don't really want to go and jump through all those hoops. And I was talking to a girl in the same year, and she told me about Granada. And it sounded actually really cool. It was a place I never heard of it was in the south of France, it was a bit of a student city, and it was close to the mountains and close to the sea. So you can go skiing and you could go swimming into the ocean if you wanted to. And then I sort of justified the change to me was like, okay, as long as I if I go there, and even if I'm waste six months of my life, and don't pass any of the courses, I assume at least they'll be able to speak a little bit of Spanish afterwards. And like, I guess that was my personal motivation. So like, on the day I changed, and then a little bit later, I went to Spain with and she the girl with went as well. But I was super unorganised. And I always was sort of like taking it as it goes, I was like, Ah, so I'll sorted out when I get there, but I think those lessons were a lot more valuable to me than doing the sociology classes in Spanish.

Andy: 21:39

So it was a life experience of managing the move out there. You said it was you've never been so uncomfortable, or you are really uncomfortable. So what was making you uncomfortable?

Stefan Dekker: 21:51

I think I had to fend for myself in terms of organise things, of course. But there was always someone to rely back on from my parents. And you know, the, this was the first time in my life I was actually by myself and I had this is defining moment. Well, I see it as a defining moment. There. I was in a hostel that I booked last minute and the hostel room was so small, I was like putting my arms out and I could touch both sides of the wall. And I was like literally thinking to myself, like why did I do this? Like, why did I put myself into this situation? And like, I had a job and like, you know, like I was making decent money as a student that I worked in a bar and that was cool. And I had a really good time. And then I was in Spain in some crap hostel, a small room and being super uncomfortable. But yeah, I didn't know I was I just had to get over it

Andy: 22:44

Yeah, so it came as a bit of a surprise that there's no need for you to be in that room. It was just a lack of planning perhaps meant that you found yourself in a less than desirable accommodation.

Stefan Dekker: 22:55

Yes, there is that that saying that failure in the preparation is the preparation of failure. And someone actually told me that when I was there, so like, I think it was one of the college professors that said it. And then it clicked me. And I was like, Okay, this is me. But during that time there, it was probably some of the best six months of my life. I had an amazing time, I met some amazing people. Really interesting people. And as I said, I've learned an awful lot, just as a person.

Andy: 23:27

Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. So you were saying that as you got to the end of your university course, you were working in a restaurant, and you were enjoying that you were actually enjoying that so much that it took you a bit longer to finish your finish your studies. And so just tell us a little bit about that ending and the transition that then happened?

Stefan Dekker: 23:50

Yeah, so I always, as I said, earlier, I had a job in a bar as well, when I was in university, and I always enjoyed working in the service industry. So when I was doing this restaurant, to me, it was like, it's a lot of hard work, because there's long hours and weird hours. And it was like a little bit of an excuse to not have to find, you know, like an office job, I guess perhaps because that's what sort of what I was scared for. But then I remember like I was so close to finishing that I started to apply for normal jobs and like slowly had to transition into finding a nine to five job because I just realised that at least for me, there was no at that point there was no real perspective like I was I was a server or a waiter. And that was it right? Like there was no no restaurant to manage. There was no no growth other than I could just do that for the next five years. And yeah, I wanted more, I guess is the thing. So I finished my university and then So his motivational talk backfired a little bit on you my first actual job if you You want to call it like that was as a junior salesperson at a leasing company, like, semi small leasing company in the north of the Netherlands. And I thought it would be my ideal job, it was sales, it was chatting to people, it was a job in the car industry, I, as a kid, I always loved cars. And it was something that I wanted to pursue. And that were something that I thought was an element I'd really enjoy, like working with cars or being in surrounded by cars. I discovered I wasn't that great of a Salesman. And I also discovered that it wasn't as pleasant as I thought it would be. There's a, there was a lot of uncomfortable moment that I just didn't enjoy, I didn't like to do, you know, like canvassing and call acquisition where you had to, I was super young. So I got the, you know, I didn't get the nice opportunities, I had to do the direct deals, and the follow ups and all the things that I didn't enjoy doing. But again, I learned a lot of like experience, I learned a lot about what I don't like and what I didn't want. So in the end, it was quite valuable. But it was an interesting transition. And there was a moment that I had this conversation with the, I guess, the general manager there. And he said to me, he said, Stefan, like, if you continue this work, then in five years time, you're going to be a great account manager. And I maybe wrongly assumed that in five years time I was going to be the director, or at least have more responsibility than an account manager. And I was like, to me, it felt like oh, gosh, maybe like, you know, maybe isn't as such a great opportunity as I thought it would be or, you know, is this something that I really want? did it? Yeah, it did. And it was funny, because I just remember, I was sitting in his office, and it was a, in many ways, a bit of a traditional business. It had, you know, the Monday Morning Sales Meeting with the, with the book, and everyone had to write the orders in the book. And, you know, I thought I thought I would really enjoy that. But I didn't, especially with, like the realisation that this wasn't the job for me. At the same time, my parents were about to take over another store. So they that there was another store in a neighbouring little village that they wanted to take over. So I had these long conversations with my dad and about like, hey, is this what you want to do? Like, would this be a step for you rather than, you know, sitting in an office or doing the things that you don't like, maybe you could run this store, and you'll be the, I guess, like the store manager, or the floor manager or whatever. So we sort of started that process. And I gave up my job and I quit my job because I thought that was going to be the next step. For me it was going to be the store manager of the new Dekker store. But literally a few days before we were about to go to the solicitor's to sign it over, someone else offered the asking price of the store, and my parents were on holiday. I remember it, it was a it was a Friday. And it was supposed to be the Tuesday that we were going to go back to the solicitors and my dad rang me and he's like, Hey, I got some bad news. Someone offered the the asking price. And there were a couple of terms and conditions that we didn't want. And the other guy selling really wanted. Yeah, so he had the offer of a lifetime. And we sort of had to pull out and then all of a sudden I was like, from going to a store manager or, you know, running my my own store with my family to having no job and trying to have to refigure it out again. And I genuinely didn't think I was any steps further. But obviously, it taught me a lot in the like, I now know it taught me a lot but

Andy: 29:04

So you found yourself at that point, you'd obviously got your head in the space of right, I'm gonna go and do this, I'm going to work for the family, I'm going to run this have this management position in the store. And that having got yourself all ready for that it was taken away factors outside of your control. So what did you do then? Can you remember? It must have been a bit of a blow for you at that time?

Stefan Dekker: 29:29

Yeah, I remember that I was super disappointed. And I wasn't mature enough in the sense that I wasn't involved in the deal that my parents were making, right? I wasn't part of the you know, let's buy this store. This is how that works. It was more like hey, we're interested in taking over the store like we do all the like, do you just want this job as a floor manager? So to me it felt a little bit like Hey, why are we not offering more like can we buy can we offer more and still get it? And obviously it's not as simple as that, which my dad and I had some good conversations about it. And then I did a couple of weeks where I sort of like figured out, like, what do I do next? I remember it very well, because I was, I helped my then father in law with redoing the garden. And, you know, like digging up the garden. And it was three weeks of just like, hard labour, but just sort of like trying to figure out what's next. And in those three weeks, my then girlfriend got a offer to go work for the Dutch embassy in Canada as an internship. And I just thought, might as well come along and tag along for the ride if that's a possibility. So took us a few days to figure out what to do. But that was the plan. That was the new plan. You know, I thought I might as well do sort of a delayed gap year or trying to figure out and travel a little bit more and see, instead of sort of tying myself down to a story in a tiny village, yeah.

Andy: 31:00

So did you do that? Did you go?

Stefan Dekker: 31:03

Yeah.

Andy: 31:04

So you wouldn't have been able to do that would you had the, I don't imagine you'd have been able to say, Okay, thanks for the job. I'm just gonna take six months off to go.

Stefan Dekker: 31:13

No, no. And, like, you know, when they also sometimes say it's like a blessing in disguise. And I genuinely think this was one of those things that back then if I know, I was so disappointed, because I thought like, I can make my own store, I can do this. I really want to do that. But looking back, I am so happy that it didn't didn't work out because I wouldn't have been where I am right now. I would have been, you know, I would have had a store in a tiny village and I probably would have missed out. Obviously, I wouldn't have known what I've missed out on but I mean, I wouldn't have wanted to miss what I now know.

Andy: 31:53

Yeah. It's quite complicated. Yeah,

Stefan Dekker: 31:57

yeah. And I had seven months in Canada, I worked as a as a barista, and briefly as a tour guide for the Dutch Tulip Festival, that the, because the Dutch royal family was sent to Canada in the Second World War, and they live there and they were supported by the Royal Canadian Parliament, I think, as a thank you, we give them tulips as a country every single year still. And there is this thing called the Tulip Festival in Ottawa. And I was a tour guide on the bus, telling them everything about the history of this thing. And I did a few tours and yeah,

Andy: 32:38

very good. So International, facing off to people happily talking to them, very good, so it was a good fit.

Stefan Dekker: 32:47

Yeah, it was. Yeah.

Andy: 32:49

And that internship then would have come to an end. And what happened? Did you head back to the Netherlands then?

Stefan Dekker: 32:55

Yeah, so the intention during our stay in Canada was like, wanting to stay there. So the internship was in Ottawa, so we lived in Ottawa for seven months. And we tried to see if we could move to Toronto, because we visited the city and it was a great city, a little bit like New York, but felt not as impressive and not as big and scary as New York. So because of the the visas that you get issued as sort of a working holiday type thing. It didn't work out. And then I got a phone call from a friend who I used to work with at the pub back in university he was opening like a restaurant slash bar type place. He said, Hey, can you help me out for a few months? Whilst I you know, get some experience staff I know that you can do this stuff and you know, you have a job when you come back ties in with when the thing is about to open. So hey, do you want to do this? so made the decision to go back and help set up this like bar restaurant like grand Cafe type place? Which was a Yeah, super, super cool thing to do, it was next to a cinema. So it was like a big complex and busy Saturday nights, it would turn into a bit of a club. After after dinner, it was a is a bit of a weird concept perhaps difficult to explain, but it really worked. And it was a really nice place to work and the few months turned into 18 months.

Andy: 34:26

Okay, so you're very comfortable in that environment. I can tell from the smile on your face as you think back to what it was like when it turned into a club and the atmosphere on a Saturday night? I could tell that was some happy memories there Stefan, what brought that to an end then?

Stefan Dekker: 34:42

similar to what the other restaurant job brought to an end was the intention as always, it was sort of like a stopgap for a couple of months until you know, I was the Iike call it the assistant bar manager. And like responsible for the, you know, the waiter staff and the bar staff during the week and sometimes on a Saturday night, there was another guy I did it with. And like that was it right? Like he either had to quit. So I could take his job, or, I don't know, I had to buy something myself. And that's the one thing with the service industry is that you hit this sort of ceiling of things that you can learn and do. And it's not very healthy for you as a person, like working very long hours, and you know, irregular sleep. And I was just done with it. My body was sound like an old man. But I was genuinely in all my days off, I would spend sleeping and catching up on some sleep. And I thought I'm young, I don't want to do this. And I didn't want to do this for the remainder of my career. So this is where one of my good friends he invited me he moved to Utrecht, which is in central the Netherlands. And I went to go and visit him. And he had because he had a cool new job for this company called Tesla Motors, as a sales guy, and he picked me up from the station in the first Model S in Europe. They just launched and I heard from Tesla back in when I was working at the leasing company, we had actually had a drive in the in the Tesla Roadster, then that was in the Netherlands back in. I think it's like 2012 No, this was 2010 or something. And I just remember thinking this is, you know, it's a pretty cool car. And I saw them in when I was in Canada, they did one of them display things in the mall. And I remember the product specialist from Tesla, they were showing me the car and I was like, Hey, what is this, you know, like you get drawn by interesting cars. And he showed me and it was one of those beta vehicles. So it wasn't even a driving Model S and he showed me the car and I just got interested. And then my friend started working for them because they were starting to deliver the cars in Europe. And I was like, I gotta I gotta be in on this. This is what I want to do. So I moved to Utrecht. And that's where I started my job at Tesla,

Andy: 37:12

how easy or difficult was it for you to get into Tesla then?

Stefan Dekker: 37:15

pretty difficult. It was a pretty lengthy process. I think I had to do something like seven interviews. And at one point, I got a scheduled interview with someone. It was a Skype interview. And we looked at each other. I was like, Hey, this is the second time we speak and he even he was like

Andy: 37:33

I've already done you.

Stefan Dekker: 37:40

Yeah. He was like, Oh, I've already approved you like I don't know, you know, I don't know what's going on. So I think they whilst I was interviewing, they started delivering the first cars in, in the Netherlands From Tilburg. So it was just super chaotic. And it was just, you know, all these new people. And I don't know, at some point, I was like, Do I even want to work for these people? Because like I did seven interviews for entry level salesperson job, because it was the product specialists, which was the entry level job back then. And I mean, yeah,

Andy: 38:20

suppose you'd invested you'd invested so much, by the time it comes to getting an offer. You're Yeah, you want to go through with this?

Stefan Dekker: 38:30

Yeah. And whilst I like I really wanted the Tesla job. And I said no to some other jobs. Because my parents always said, you have to apply for some jobs. And you know, like, maybe have some backup and make sure that you have something to fall back upon. If if there's one thing doesn't go through. So at one point, I remember I had I just rang the recruiter, and I was like, look like, I kinda need to know I have two jobs that I can go to, but I want this job like, am I hired? Like, I've done seven interviews, and she was like, let me check. And then she just like, half an hour later, I had an, like, an offer with something to sign and then it was like, okay, good. I'll do this. Yeah, it was really, really funny.

Andy: 39:15

So you started as a product specialist. And you mentioned very, honestly, Stefan earlier in the conversation that it turns out you weren't a great salesperson, when you when you'd started with the leasing company. How was your experience now when you became a product specialist,

Stefan Dekker: 39:33

so I figured out what it was that I didn't like about being a salesperson. And I was great with people. So I'm good when people are already there. And I can talk to them and I can sell like and then I can sell it's essentially what you do in a restaurant, right? You sell people a good time. And maybe you do your best to sell them a tiny bit more of wine or a little bit of a, you know, a dessert and like these little things, and I was super comfortable doing those things. For me, it was like the banging on doors and, you know, driving to a remote industrial terrain with God knows what kind of business and then knocking on the door and be like, Hey, are you guys looking for a lease car, because I got a lease car, like that bit was the thing that, to me was like, super uncomfortable and it didn't enjoy

Andy: 40:26

So the retail side, whether it was in a restaurant, or in a Tesla showroom, where customers had already come in, they'd already made a choice to come there. And it was a case of now giving them the experience giving them the best experience and upselling them as as appropriate, then that is obviously very different from a business to business role in a leasing company going out there, finding people and persuading them. So that's understandable. How long were you a product specialist for or what what was tell us a little bit about doing that.

Stefan Dekker: 41:01

So it started in the original, what do you call original, but in a very small showroom in Amsterdam, and I sort of split my time between the service centre so the dealership and the gallery store in the fancy shopping street in Amsterdam. So that was one of the first in Europe, I think it was wherH they opened the store in the PC host strat as next to the fancy brands and the designer brands. So I split my time between them. End of 2013, there were some government incentives that were ending in the Netherlands, which meant that everyone was trying to get a test drive slash deposit in on time, anyone that was even remotely interested in doing that. So it was more so trying to be efficient with your time and trying to sort of figure out who was actually buying and not buying, because the car itself at that point was really, really selling itself. And I remember it was the 31st of December. And it was 10 past five and the shop closed at four o'clock. And the phone rang and I thought it was the manager just you know, checking to see if we had left already or making sure. So I picked up the phone and there was a guy that was like, Yeah, I'm just I just got back from my New Year's meet with my accountant and he said I need to buy this car now. And all sorts of like stories like that. And you know, so it was super chaotic. And I really, really enjoy that. Like I really enjoyed the chaos and everything that was going on. Like one day you were doing lots of test drives. And the other day you were standing in the store and speaking to some tourists about what it was and EVs and no one understood it and everyone was sort of doubting it and questioning these EVs are never going to take off. And it's never gonna happen that you can't drive to Paris with these things. I really enjoy that.

Andy: 43:06

And it reminds me You said you were quite happy go lucky back in the day when you were going off to Grenada. So it sounds like you're very comfortable with that kind of variety. Are you quite an adaptable person?

Stefan Dekker: 43:22

I think I have become very, like we say it now in Easee like becoming comfortable in the uncomfortable because like that's it's this this like, obviously, there's a level of uncomfortableness that I am comfortable in. But I do tend to be okay. I love change. I love variety. And I love doing different things at the same time.

Andy: 43:43

Yeah, I'm just thinking just when you were saying that about enjoying that somewhat chaotic environment sounds like you weren't somebody who really needed structure and discipline and order in your earlier years. So this was not so alien for you.

Stefan Dekker: 44:02

No, and I always saw it as one of my one, you know, when you have to talk about one of the bad points or even during a job interview, I always known that I wasn't an amazing person that was good in structure. You know, I wasn't the most structured person or it's always been something I know I have to work on. However, I also learned that as long as you're aware of these things, then you can navigate and you can actually use it to your benefit. So in these situations where you have to quickly adapt and do 10, 15 things at the same time. I'm okay with that. Because I don't have to have things in a structured way.

Andy: 44:40

Yeah. Yeah. That's really good. Stefan. So that was your experience as a product specialist. And what happened after that, and how did it come about that you changed roles?

Stefan Dekker: 44:52

So I went to Norway during I think it was the first big delivery madness that you had at Tesla. So they were sending all these people from everywhere in Europe to Norway to support with delivering the cars. And I was stationed in Drammen, just outside Oslo for about three and a half weeks with a bunch of Americans and, you know, people that have never left North America. And they were now in in Drammen, a tiny place outside Oslo, delivering cars. And I really enjoyed it, it was so much work. And we were doing all these things. We were like delivering cars to like 11 o'clock at night, and from seven o'clock in the morning, and, you know, getting cars straight from the port, getting them PDI'd, then getting them ready for the customer and managing the customers and dealing with angry customers and delayed customers. And I really enjoyed doing that. And I sort of built a relationship with the Delivery Manager back then, that was in charge of running the programme. And we came like a few weeks after we came back from Norway, there was this hot jobs email that used to come to all the Tesla staff. And there was a delivery specialist for Hong Kong. And one of the one of the requirements was that you had to be able to speak Chinese and fluent English to go there. So I copied and pasted a snippet. And I send it to the Delivery Manager with a link to a Chinese course. And I was like, Hey, can I expense this as a joke? And he came running down the stairs. And he was like, Hey, do you really want to go to Hong Kong? And I said, Why is it an option? And he said, Well, if you want to go then maybe we can make it an option. So we started talking about it. And they were open to relocate people. But he said look like it needs to be sort of with the intention of like, nothing's ever permanent. But we don't want you to just go there for six months. And after six months be like wanting to come back. And I was like, Okay, well, then Hong Kong is a little bit far away. I've never been so maybe is a little bit scary. But sort of like whilst we were talking, he said, what about what about London? And I said, Yeah, I'll go to London. And he said, Are you serious? I'm like, yeah, when do you want me to be there? And he said, Well, as soon as possible, because we are going to open there. And I remember I was like, Yeah, of course, like, I didn't think it was gonna happen that quick. But he's like, okay, let's phone your manager. So like, phoned my manager, I was like, Hey, I was just speaking to the Delivery Manager, and I can if I want to do this job and go to London. And she's like, okay, great. Let's see what we can do to support you. So like, three weeks later, I was staying in a hotel in Maidenhead, and getting ready to move my my life and move away from Utrecht and move to London. Well, it wasn't really London. It was West Drayton like outside, you've seen it. But it wasn't. It wasn't

Andy: 47:55

It's not on the postcards of London.

Stefan Dekker: 47:58

It's definitely not on the postcards of London. And it was also because it's quite far away quite outside London. I'd been in London before. And I'd lived in London during my internship. And so I always loved it, and I wanted to go back. I was like, oh, and I remember, like, two or three weeks later, just before I went, I was watching TV, like Dutch TV. And there was this show about English cops like English policeman. You know. I remember there was something about, they were doing this chase of some of some bad boys in a stolen car or something. And they were driving through the town of West Drayton. And they were saying, like, something bad about West Drayton. And and I was, I had to google it. And I was like, Is this the place that I'm going to work? West Drayton? So I looked it up? And it was it was like, oh, it's not as glamorous as I thought it would be. But yeah, I moved to I spent some time in Maidenhead at like a Tesla HQ that was there. Getting to know a little bit of the team that was a very small team in the UK, there were no Delivery Specialists hired then, there was supposed to be an American, that was going to be the you know, the Delivery Manager setting everything up. And then that changed, like from one day to another to be someone completely different. So there was gonna be a new team, we didn't really know what to do. And yeah, that's where we started in the Maidenhead office and trying to figure something out and figure things out as we move along. I know that you've had some of my previous colleagues on here, Annie and Ash. I assume that they remember these nights in this office vividly trying to get the first customers and trying to organise the first things to get these people in their cars. Yeah.

Andy: 49:47

So you're bringing back some memories for me as well Stefan of Maidenhead, and then West Drayton and it's not that bad. We can just,

Stefan Dekker: 49:57

certainly not I only have fond memories, I just remember that it was sold to me as the Tesla showroom in London, but it wasn't London. But I, I'm really glad like Hong Kong was, you know, this is what I mean, when you're comfortable in the uncomfortable, I think Hong Kong would have been a little bit too uncomfortable for me. So be too far away that I didn't see it as a realistic option. But this to me, it's like, like a sort of I knew place. And

Andy: 50:28

you had some familiarity with it, you'd been before, it didn't feel like too much of a step, it was still going to be uncomfortable, it's gonna be a new place to be, but not quite as big a step as Hong Kong seemed to be. I think that's a really interesting concept that of what's a stretch but still achievable in our own minds. And so you lived through some rapid growth at Tesla through some pretty crazy times really.

Stefan Dekker: 50:59

Yeah, yeah, I really, really enjoyed being in the UK from the start of the UK, you know, we had the, the launch event where Elon handled over the cars, and we were able to deal with some of these customers that placed deposits like years before it was even a thing. And I just remember, I found it so fascinating speaking with these people, and, you know, trying to figure out like, why, like, what was their, like, their motive to, you know, part with 20 grand or 30 grand was what the deposit was for a company that never really existed. And it's just like, and these are some of the most interesting people that you probably can meet, they were great business people, there were people that you know, which saved their entire lives, I remember there was a 93 year old customer that said something about, he really, really wanted to say that he drove an electric car, like he said, he always said throughout his entire lifetime that it was going to happen. And the fact that he could actually have one for him was more than enough. And I'd like those stories and those things that made the job. The job itself was chaos, especially in the beginning, like the building where we had to deliver these cars from, it wasn't really a building, it was a building site. We had, I think it was one phone between the four of us or five of us that was always on charge because it was always drained. And we would have to deal with the customers and speaking to getting the cars booked in and trying to make everything happen as we could and whilst the builders were putting in the actual office bit

Andy: 52:41

so very challenging to deliver a premium experience when you're in those circumstances must have tested your people skills, your retailing skills, to the limit really,

Stefan Dekker: 52:55

yes, I think one of the biggest things for me was having to deal with all these, like setbacks and trying to deliver the bad news and trying to get these still make these customers happy. And I remember there was people flying in from all over the country to pick up the cars, but even people flying in from abroad, because they lived half their lives somewhere else. And they wanted to pick up the car in the UK. And then we had to deal with the fact that the cars were delayed two days before they were supposed to come and like all these things. And I learned so much from trying to fix these problems and trying to solve these problems, or at least trying to make sure that we did everything that we could in order to either listen to the people and understand and sympathise and help them as best as we could. And it was sort of like, I guess a customer service one on one.

Andy: 53:50

So how did that compare? Because you said in the in the leasing company that you first joined you discovered you learned as we do we learn you know you often you only find out what you don't like by going and trying stuff. This sounds incredibly challenging, but not so much that you thought, actually I don't like this. I don't want to do this.

Stefan Dekker: 54:10

No, because it's like this instant gratification, right? Where you immediately have the opportunity to fix something so small, that seems so small, that is difficult things and comes with angry customers and all these struggles. But like, essentially, that was what we were doing the whole day. Every time you fix something, you get this like hey, done another one done. You know, it becomes this challenge that you're fixing. And I know the rest of the team was was striving on that too. And I think you hear this quite often that if people are in like a dire situation and as long as people stay positive, then it actually becomes a very great experience. And then like if you would describe the situation to anyone I'm very sure that people would be like Never want to work for that. You know, I learned so much I really enjoyed it. I had amazing times, I worked very long hours. But I enjoyed all these hours.

Andy: 55:03

Yeah, I mean firefighting can be very rewarding. And it's if you don't have the processes in place, as many things were still being put in place that you will have problems, and you have to have manual workarounds and solve them, as long as you don't get addicted to putting out fires and never bother to put in place the processes that you need, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to scale in the way that clearly the business needed to. So what was your progression through Tesla, Stefan, tell us a little bit about how you moved and

Stefan Dekker: 55:39

so I guess a nice segue onto your firefighting slash solving any of the problems. So I always wanted, like, I thought, this delivery team was the like the direction to go. It was like the clearest. There was a young team, I was the first in the team. And I thought I'd be the Delivery Manager for the UK, and then after the UK, Europe, and then maybe the world like that, sort of that was my,

Andy: 56:05

none of this five years to be an account manager nonsense.

Stefan Dekker: 56:09

Yeah, I don't know, that was my sort of thought, in my, in my mind the most natural progression. But they said they weren't going to add any management or they weren't going to take a delivery manager because it wasn't needed yet. So in my mind, I was like, Oh, fine, I need to find something else. Like I was really happy with what we were doing. And I, for whatever reason, I started doing, like all the trade ins, you know, the when people wanted to trade in their non Tesla cars, because they wanted to get some money towards the purchase, or they wanted to put it in a finance contract and all these things. There were an awful lot of car sales guys in the team that, you know, wanted to do something. So they had a mate or a friend of a friend, and nine out of 10 times just by the way that the process was set up at Tesla, where you have a salesperson that sells you the car. And then you get to this delivery experience specialist, which was the team that I was working in, that deals with your ownership journey, and hands you over the car. So there's this like overlap. And sometimes this journey is pretty long, like ordering a Model S was always costly at that time. So it could take a few months. So one thing that was causing an awful lot of frustration amongst the team and issues was these trade ins that were supposed to happen and people that were promised things that, you know, we couldn't do, or people just trying to do these things out of their best intentions. But an awful lot of things went wrong. So I started fixing this and making sure that, you know, if people wanted to trade it in, we could do it. And we did the right thing. So we made it legal. And we made it so that there was a paper trail of these things. And it wasn't any official, there was one guy in Europe that was setting up what Tesla was calling the remarketing team. And like we knew each other from the delivery team days, and we spent some time in Norway with the deliveries and we were quite close in that sense and we had a good relationship. And because I was helping him with, you know, like the programme, he was sort of like, Oh, do you want to be, you know, part of this, this team, this trade in team and, you know, help set this up? And my initial reaction was like, No, I don't want to I don't want to be dealing with all these used cars and these problems and the the, you know, the second hand car dealers that come and pick these things up. And there was always issues and always trouble. Like I want to be the Delivery Manager, right. Like that was my trajectory. That was my intention. But when we had the conversation with my manager about this, like, oh, there's not going to be a delivery manager. I sort of thought, You know what, maybe maybe I need to do something with this trade in thing. It is something I enjoy, I enjoy creating this. And it was the biggest frustration we had as a team about that we could actually influence because we had some symptom scope and some some things. So I, I spoke to the guy in Amsterdam, Europe, and I was like, Look, I want to do this, like, what do I need to do? And he said, You know what, just phone this guy in America and tell him that you're interested because we're not really looking to hire anyone. And I was like, okay, so because they didn't really know what to do with the programme yet because it wasn't like it only just started to happen in North America. And, you know, I don't know if Tesla at that point was very keen to do this very traditional trade in your car and get money and sell non Tesla things and like, what would the world think about an EV company, you know, selling non EVs as part of the business. So I rang the guy and I was like I said, I've been doing this for the past couple of months, it's my biggest frustration, I think I have some ideas on how to do it, or how I want to do it. Can I, you know, like, can I be whatever you want it to be? And he said, Yeah, the only thing I had to do was interview back then with Sean Nielsen, he was like Elon's, right hand man, for whatever reason, he was massively involved with this remarketing team in the US. And I remember that I didn't understand where this came from. But I realised after that, because it was quite an impactful job. It was a new team, you know, and like it had an impact on the organisation, that at that point, important people have to say something about that. So I remember this conversation about that was pretty much the same as I had with the other guy about how I wanted to fix the problems. And and Sean told me all these things about how he tried to sell Elon on the use car things and how Elon didn't really want to be part of this used car. thing. And it was a bit of a weird conversation. And I thought it was a job interview. So I prepared loads of numbers and data, and I was like, I'm gonna nail this. But it turned out to be just a really nice conversation and spitballing some ideas. And then all of a sudden, he goes around and says, Well, Stefan, I think you've got this, and I gotta go, don't mess this up. And then like, that was the last of it. And I was like, Okay, what now? And yeah, so like, that's when it sort of like happened. And of course, HR had to go through the HR process. But yeah, I started doing that. And I started doing the remarketing programme and hired some people in the team. And it started off as just me finding buyers and, you know, quoting cars and trying to determine the value of that. And then starting trying to find a little bit of a team got some more responsibility in the sense of that we didn't just do like the trade ins for the non Tesla stuff. But it was also around the first time, you know, where people started buying the Dual Motors and trading in their their non autopilot cars and all these iterations that Tesla did, because they wanted the newest of the newest. And we had to come up with something like that. And like, what do we do with the used cars that come back? And so that was like, I guess the big part of my Tesla journey. It was in this trade in team and this remarketing team and the team grew within Europe, you had these remarketing managers, we built an amazing auction programme. And we built an amazing programme for Tesla with all these trade ins, where at the end of like our journey of the team, we were able to buy cars just based on some data, you know, with the registration number and the mileage, we were able to accurately tell you the value of the vehicle that wasn't we buy any car, or you know, one of these auto valuation things that in the start of a few years ago, everyone was always trying to lowball. But Tesla never wanted to lowball these people, they just wanted to offer a fair price. And we weren't interested in selling used cars for profit. But it was a really, you know, trying to make this as efficient as possible. You know, how can we really have this super old fashioned shady kind of business? Because it essentially is a little bit shady, still the used cars. And how can we testify it and how can we make it into something that is digital transparent, and all these things that Tesla was trying to be? And that's what I really, really enjoyed doing? Yeah, it was a big part of my time there.

Andy: 1:03:45

Very good. Very good. I'm sure that was an incredibly exciting journey and an opportunity to really build something new and a new way of doing it. So how long did you stay at Tesla for?

Stefan Dekker: 1:03:59

I think, all in all seven years.

Andy: 1:04:02

Wow, that's quite a quite a stretch.

Stefan Dekker: 1:04:05

It is yeah. And as I said, from the start, and then when I left in the summer 2019. It was a completely different company. back then. It sounds silly. But when I first started, Elon was just a CEO, of course, he was an interesting businessman and an impressive businessman. But when I left, he was a cold figure. He was famous and he you know, he had a he had a status. And that happened throughout the years we were there. You saw it's changed an industry. Whereas in the start, you'd have people say electric cars are never gonna take off. And when I left everyone saying either you're the future or part of the future at least, and to me, that was the most the most interesting thing to witness.

Andy: 1:04:48

Yeah. And to be part of.

Stefan Dekker: 1:04:50

Absolutely, yeah.

Andy: 1:04:51

So how did you come to decide to leave, what was going through your head then? Tell us that story.

Stefan Dekker: 1:05:00

I think it was a little bit of a combination of things. One was, I was getting a little bit bored with the things I was doing and bored is not necessarily the right way. But this was in the, you know, the Model 3 era that everything the business was doing was focused on successfully launching Model 3, at the start of 2019, which was super interesting to be part of it spent an awful lot of time in Amsterdam and Tilburg, and you know, like in this like war room style thing, fixing everything. But the result of that was that all these buy programmes, which essentially we were, we were always fighting for attention, we were always fighting for a part of a budget, or, you know, if we had to do some digital work or some product work, we were always down at the bottom of the queue. And we had all these great ideas and initiatives that we thought would set us aside and really, really set us up for the growth of Model 3 and, you know, make us a scalable business. And we built, you know, a plan. And at one point, I think I did six of the same headcount calculations in the same year, towards the end to justify just getting three or four additional people. And like we had to justify this in a call with Zack Kirkhorn, who was the CFO, or who is the CFO of Tesla. And there were all these unnecessarily things that were holding us back, at least I thought they were unnecessary. And I was just came to a point where I was like, you know, I want to do something I don't want to just consistently be held back by someone in America that I never see never meet that I have to consistently justify and tell them why I'm trying to do things. And if the business doesn't want to, you know, if they can continue to see remarketing and used Tesla's as a secondary part of the business, then that's never going to change, right? Even though that, you know, it might not be a profitable business unit, or you might not want to do as a business, you need to take a decision whether you're going to give it the attention that it deserves, or it's always going to be something on the site. And to me, it felt it was the latter. And it was actually a pretty funny, I guess, like a coincidence or, my, my girlfriend, she's English. And she took the summer off to try and figure out what she wanted to do. She worked in, as I said to you, before we started this, she worked in the auction world in the UK, for close to 10 years. And she wanted to do something new. And she was sort of like trying to figure it out. And we were at that point where we were thinking, hey, maybe you know, do you want to move to the Netherlands and trying to see what it is for us to see if we want to set up a live in the UK. Or if we want to set up a live in the Netherlands or Amsterdam, that's something that you might be interested in. And then it was sort of around that time, that we were maybe toying with the idea was, I'm not saying I'm a victim of Brexit, but because of the Brexit situation, we were sort of thinking if we want to do this, we might as well do this now. Because otherwise we're just going to make things unnecessarily complicated. If we wait. And then on a random Tuesday afternoon, my pal, Allen O'Donnell walks in with a suitcase and an EV charger in that suitcase. And he was he had a meeting near the Chiswick office of Tesla that was the office that I was working in. And he just came for coffee. And Alan was sort of always part of the team, but never part of the team. He was always by himself. So he was always there he was we always had lunch together and we became friends. And he just came for a coffee with a friend. And we started talking and in this conversation, he was telling me about what he was doing with this Norwegian charging company that he worked for, and how he said he given up his dream job at Tesla to work and do this EV charging company. And I don't know something triggered me and I was super interested by it. And I said to him, like, aren't you looking for someone in, in the Benelux? And he said to me, like why? And like it was something like changed in his eyes. And he like looked me straight in the eye. And he's like, do you want to move back to Amsterdam? I was like, Yeah, I would like, like, we're actually talking about it. And then he was like, let's talk. And he was sort of like, wary about the surrounding because the rest of the team were there. And there were a bunch of people. The funny thing was everyone was pretty open in the office and knew each other really well. So it wasn't a secret. So I was like, hey, look, and everyone in the office was like, Oh, yes, Stefan do it. It's good idea.

Andy: 1:09:51

Unconventional, sort of career conversations going on. Your teammates are having a say in whether you should do it, move or not.

Stefan Dekker: 1:10:01

Yeah, it was it was it was super interesting. And so I had some conversations with Alan and then spoke to some CSO of the business, I met Jonas, the CEO for dinner in London when he was there to meet Alan. And we sort of, you know, clicked and had this conversation there was never really a job there was never really the intention of the Benelux it was just sort of like a bunch of guys that were talking about an idea. And it sounded like a good idea. And I was really drawn by whatever they were trying to do, and the type of people and you know, there was it was a startup and it had 17, I think or 15 people that were working for it. And Alan was the first person outside Norway. And I don't know, I just something was super interesting. So I went to Norway for a day, sort of presenting, like who I was, and spending some time with just the team there and the people there and talk about the like, what it would look like and what they thought it would look like. And it just ended up, me and Jonas and Casper, the chief sales officer, just sitting in this room that we called Koserom, which is basically a Norwegian for cuddle room, on an old secondhand sofa, just talking about like life and what we think that the world should be like, and it was like very philosophical. And I was like, I don't know if this is right, or this is, you know, I left Norway that day, and I had a really good feeling. And I really enjoyed spending time with these guys. And I really wanted to work for them. And then, yeah, there was sort of like a text message from Jonas, two or three days later, I spoke to the board, let's do it. And that was it. There was no details about like, like, what are we actually going to do. So I've moved, I quit my job. And I moved back to the Netherlands and then stayed with my parents for a while found a flat and Amsterdam, then tried to figure out what we wanted to do. And there was nothing there. There were, as I said, there were 15 or 16 people when I joined. And for me, it was the opportunity to start something from scratch. But with the security of, you know, not having to figure out the product or not having to figure out like everything was like, in my mind, the foundation was there and had an amazing product, because I still believe it's a it's, you know, it's way ahead of its time above everything else that's out there. And

Andy: 1:12:25

tell us a little bit about it.

Stefan Dekker: 1:12:27

It's an Norwegian company, three guys had the idea to build a home charger a few years ago. So 2018 They were working for another Norwegian charging company, though it was mainly focused on semi public charging, and you know, MDUs and dwellings. But even in Norway, the country that is so far ahead of it's time, in terms of EV adoption, people were using a lot of the regular plugs and regular outlets to charge their cars. So there was this like, opportunity to do it in a safer way and in a much smarter way. And the biggest thing that was I was drawn to was that there was so many issues that Norway was already running in. Like there was so many like, problems with the power grid, and you know, like all these things that because there was so many EVs that I thought you know, what, if I just look at how they've done it, like setting up the business here shouldn't be that difficult, because we're gonna run into the same issues in a few years time, we're just, it's just gonna take a little while. And essentially, we have one charger in two flavours, one for home and one for like a semi public and multiple ones. And I think the thing that makes us really good is that, instead of trying to change the default, what a lot of other businesses out there do and calculate how much power you need in order to charge your car, if we look at how can you maximise the available power, and you know, use that power in the most efficient way. So how can you distribute and use the available power amongst the cars that you have charging over the time that you have available to make sure that all the cars still charge because your car if you plug it in, it doesn't have to be charged at two o'clock in the morning, as long as it's charged by the next morning. It's fine if that's in a variable speeds and variable times where it turns on and off. And that's where it sort of sets us a little bit apart. And that's what we focus on as a business from a product perspective. And then secondly, like Norway, to me always had this amazing work life balance and I noticed that when I was working there for Tesla, but even speaking to these guys, like they were on the road to changing the world, but yet they're all young guys, they all have young families and they all have an amazing work life balance to me that was something that I was like, drawn to, because I came from this super, like high paced high energy, like toxic, I say toxic, but it's like this Americanism, where you have to work as much as you possibly can, in order to be successful to these Norwegians that have something completely the opposite. I think, you know, if you have the right people that want to do the right things, and you have you build an amazing product, then that also gives you great results. So yeah, that's a little bit about who we are and what we're trying to do.

Andy: 1:15:33

You've touched on it, Stefan, but you and I have spoken before, and I've picked up from those conversations, that Jonas is quite a special leader that you have, and the culture that you have in the organisation is very attractive from what I've heard. So could you just say a few words about and you've touched on it already by talking about the life and work life balance, but are a few things you could say about that?

Stefan Dekker: 1:15:57

Yeah, so I think, I think for me, the most important thing was that, if you look at it from, you know, a very black and white decision making like there was, I don't think that that would be a lot of founders in this world that would say, hey, random person, I just met through another person, here's a, you know, a bunch of money to go and set up a business, after I've just met you a few times, and good luck, we, you know, I trust that you do that. And like the majority of it was based on trust, as a person. So like, to me, the vision that Jonas has is one thing. So like, I truly believe in what he sees as the future for electricity and how we should be smarter with the available electricity. And what we should do in order to make the world a better place in that electricity, the power grid, and you know EV charging as part of that. But second is also the amount of trust that he gives, as a leader. You know, the way that he leads the teams that he leads the business, to me was something I've never ever experienced. And in the beginning, and I don't know, I think you'll remember it in the beginning to me, it was very difficult because from Tesla, it was it was super clear in this like if you don't deliver on certain things, and if you don't have clear deliverables, then you're not performing. Whereas there were never any clear deliverables other than let's make this a success. And then this success was up to determine to me what it initially should look like. And obviously, we have conversations to make sure that we are were aligned with what what is the success, but it was never any like, hey, Stefan, if you don't deliver X amount of units, by this time, we need to reconsider what we're doing. So to me that was unique, like, the entire business starts from that principle, right. And we say it, we have two visions, one is shaping the future of electricity. And the second is shaping the future of business culture. And when we say we do people first, and we really try to do it, and we really try to make sure that we put our people first and that happy people bring the best, if you make people the best version of themselves, then you truly get the best out of them. And this is a very difficult thing to do, and obviously doesn't happen overnight. And it's also not a tick box exercise of having the longest list of secondary benefits that you can think of. But it is something almost untangible, but it is something so important. And it drives and motivates a bunch of amazing people. And I mean, in the time that I've been with Easee it's now been two and a half years. And we've grown from the 17 people to we're now close to 450 people in the whole of the business so we've we've grown rapidly. And obviously, we've changed a little bit as a business but this principle about people first and trying to get everyone to become the best versions of themselves is still ingrained in our core every single person that works for Easee today in their employment contracts, it states that you will do everything that you can so you sign basically sign for that you will do everything that you can to become the best version of yourself. And I think this comes from the leadership this comes from Jonas as a person and and who he is and how he tries to lead the business.

Andy: 1:19:35

He does sound really a great leader and visionary. And I love that you want to not only you've got two missions and one of them is about transforming business culture, as well. And that idea of people becoming their best selves. It's very close to what we believe in Aquilae in our vision of fulfilling performance and wanting people to be able to use all of their talent, intelligence, creativity and capability and at the same time go home at the end of the day feeling fulfilled from what they've done so that they can be great partners, parents and all round human beings. That's why I was very keen to get you to share that because it just sounds like Jonas is a wonderful example of someone who's making that happen. And you're part of it as well. And you've had a recent promotion as well. I think, Stefan, so your role has grown and your international footprint is growing as you originally hoped for back in the day. So you're now VP looking after a number of markets, I think. Yeah.

Stefan Dekker: 1:20:37

Yeah. So it's sort of changed a little bit in the sense that, like the Benelux team, it's not like I was done. But like the things that I've learned that I'm good at, which is to create something to set the basis and to like, mould it in a direction was done. And it needed like we have 24 people now in the Benelux I think, and it needs a different type of person to bring this to the to the next level. In the background, I was already back with my good friend, Alan, I was already doing a lot of work on, you know, Alan set up the UK, I set up the Benelux so we made a lot of mistakes. And we know to learn from those mistakes. So as we expand and as we enter new countries, we shouldn't make these mistakes again. So the the intention was that if you put these experts, which, arguably, we we are in what we've done together, then we shouldn't make the same mistakes. That's where the idea came from. So we are now a team with a small team of five people, including myself, and are responsible for trying to open up the new markets, and then almost sort of like building it to the point where it can be sort of self sustainable, and then sold by the rest of the organisation. And then we move on to the next. And we do this in a number of markets simultaneously. And yeah, sort of trying to expand the footprint of Easee as a business, but still doing it in a way that, you know, like people first like and when we onboard the new teams, and when we onboard these things, we really, really spend an awful lot of time recruiting the best people, especially the new team, the core people, so in the beginning of September, our Paris office will open. And we really will spend time with some key people in the business that dedicate their time and resources to help these people on board, even though it will be a small team of only five or six people to start, we need this basis to be as easy as we can get. And by easy. I mean, there'll be to the business easy, because it's so important to our identity to who we are. And we can't have these satellites or these additional offices, that sort of become their own businesses, because we believe that one of the key reasons to our success is this ideology of people first, right.

Andy: 1:22:57

So they need to fit with the culture that's been developed so far, and not be, as you say, satellites with their own approach. Fabulous. So are you able to say which markets you're going to I'm not trying to prise information out of you. But if there are markets, because we have, as I mentioned, we've got listeners now in 72 countries. So where next for Easee.

Stefan Dekker: 1:23:21

So for us, the biggest focus now is France, which will open in September. And then at some point, Spain, Portugal and Italy will follow too. And we're trying to see what is needed to go to Australia and New Zealand, because of the power grid situation. And also, it's very in line with the UK. So in all the rules and regulations. And it's a very interesting market. Because a lot of the problems with the power grid and the Australia Australians have with expensive power and you know, like charging vehicles and solar power. And you know, there's this whole ecosystem that you can build and this whole ecosystem that you could put in place that makes Australia a fascinating place to be for this.

Andy: 1:24:12

Well, we certainly have a good number of listeners in Australia and I have some good connections down that part of the world. So if we can help you at all, then don't hesitate to let me know. Is there anything we've obviously come right up to the present day, Stefan into what you're doing now? Are there any questions? You think I've missed an opportunity? Is there anything I should have asked you that would have unlocked any gems or have we covered everything?

Stefan Dekker: 1:24:36

Well, we've I think we've covered a whole lot. I think the one thing I was sort of trying to see how I could add that but I don't know how it would be a good way of adding it was like when I say people first for Easee right you know, and how we spend all this time trying to find these right people, it was something at Tesla I was surrounded by so many great people, right that had, like, so much drive so much knowledge and doing all these amazing things. But yet they were held back by the business, they were held back by, you know, some American in North America that thought that they had all the knowledge and the power. Whereas to me now I see like, and I've made this the thing, I want to make sure that I keep doing this as much as I possibly can, is to help these amazing people to actually get true value out of themselves and grow and are able to do the things that they can do. Because Easee has allowed me to do that too. Right? Like I've moved from a job. And, like, I mean, it was, it was a great job. But the things I do now are nothing compared to what I thought I was going to do next after my Tesla job. And, yeah, I want to think, for me, it's important that we do that with all these great people that are out there. And whether they're Tesla people or people from other businesses, I'm sure that there's a huge amount of people that know so much more and can do so much more than we get out of them. And it's such a shame. Yeah, and Yeah, cuz to me, right, like, so many people

Andy: 1:26:11

You probably know, I'm a big fan of Stephen Covey Stefan and the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And in the wanted to use Tesla or these types of business. I know Tesla Eighth Habit, as I say in one of my episodes, you know, he said that the majority of people in our organisations, their roles because that's the thing that I've been through and lived do not require or even allow them to use all of the talent, intelligence, creativity and capability that they have. So it through myself, but they always want to use it as a springboard. kind of in my mind, it sits there in a holdall alongside them by their desk not getting used, because the organisation doesn't let them use it. And like you, you just want to see Rather a seeing it as part of the journey and part of like people using it all and making the progress that they can, and also doing it in an environment where they get to go home, and learning it. And, for me, I don't want people to see Easee they have that work life balance that you talked about. So I'm glad we got an opportunity for you to share that. as a springboard I want people to see Easee as the place where you could use your tools. And you know, actually, you can develop new tools. And you can develop new things and learn new skills, and do things that you never thought you were able to do, or maybe things that you're never able to enjoy at any other business, I hope that people appreciate that when they're there. I suspect by doing that, you'll get a lot of discretionary effort from people you have highly engaged people at Easee. If some people do, for some reason choose to leave that opportunity behind, I can imagine a few of them trying to come back after a short experience of life elsewhere, where it's not, people aren't put first.

Stefan Dekker: 1:28:02

I don't know, we'll see. We're pretty young. So we've not seen that sort of four or five year retention. So 2019 was when we really started growing. But we'll see it's gonna be an interesting next couple of years and see our expansion and see our people grow and our business grow.

Andy: 1:28:19

Well, I wish you all the best. And I'll be keeping an eye on on Easee and on you. And I'm sure some of the listeners also be very interested to learn about you and wonder when you're coming to their market. So thank you so much, Stefan for sharing your story with me really appreciate it.

Stefan Dekker: 1:28:37

Thank you. Thank you for having me. And I really appreciate that.

Andy: 1:28:43

You've been listening to Career-view Mirror with me, Andy follows, I hope you found some helpful points to reflect on in Stefans story that can help you with your own career journey, or that of those who lead, parent or mentor you are unique. And during my conversation with Stefan, you'll have picked up on topics that resonate with you. A few things I noticed were Stefan finding himself as a very young undergraduate student in a cohort with significantly older ones. And realising his first choice of degree course was not going to work for him at that time of his life. Growing up a bit during the process of switching to the commercial economics course, not being clear on what he wanted to do when he left, which I imagine is really helpful to hear for others who are in that same position, building up quite a lot of experience in hospitality roles, looking after customers in busy, sometimes chaotic environments, starting with the leasing company and learning a bit more about himself as a result and the fact that he didn't particularly enjoy the cold calling of that business to business sales role that it was a meeting with a friend that sowed the seed of joining Tesla and that the desire was strong enough to carry him through the extensive interview process having to deal with unhappy customers and the satisfaction that he took from solving their problems, the kind of opportunities that arose in a new OEM startup like having to deal with customer trade in vehicles, and how he found his way around this topic with no real prior experience. Again, a chance conversation with a friend and a former colleague that led to the move to Easee and the wonderful culture at Easee and the focus on putting people first and how Stefan is now getting to use the learning that he gained from setting up the Benelux business. To help set up new markets. You can contact Stefan via LinkedIn. And we'll put links in the show notes to this episode. We publish these episodes to celebrate my guests careers, listen to their stories, and learn from their experiences. And I'm genuinely interested in what resonated with you. Thank you to all of you for sharing your feedback. Thanks also to Hannah and Julia, who as part of the Career-view Mirror team here at Aquilae work so hard to deliver these episodes to you. This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by Aquilae. Aquilae's mission is to Enable Fulfilling Performance in the auto finance and mobility industry. We use our very own Fulfilling Performance Paradigm to help you identify what steps you need to take to enable fulfilling performance in your business. Contact me directly. If you'd like to know more, my email is andy@aquilae.co.uk. If you want to know more about fulfilling performance, just listen to episodes 60, 61 and 62. There are short side mirror episodes that explain our mission and its origin. And remember folks if you know people who would benefit from hearing these stories, please show them how to find us. Thanks for listening