CAREER-VIEW MIRROR - biographies of colleagues in the automotive and mobility industries.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl: the international Frenchman who followed his heart to Munich and a career in the automotive industry and whose entrepreneurial spirit now sees him at the forefront of car subscription and connected car retailing.

September 26, 2022 Andy Follows Episode 83
CAREER-VIEW MIRROR - biographies of colleagues in the automotive and mobility industries.
Nicolas Lacker Stuhl: the international Frenchman who followed his heart to Munich and a career in the automotive industry and whose entrepreneurial spirit now sees him at the forefront of car subscription and connected car retailing.
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Nicolas is an expert in the rapidly emerging field of car subscription and connected car retailing.

After spending his work life in big corporations working internationally, Nicolas moved into entrepreneurship 18 months ago.  

This was initially intended to be a temporary situation but it extended beyond his expectations, in terms of duration but mostly in terms of personal discovery and growth.  

A husband and father of two, Nicolas is widely enjoying his new lifestyle and discovering as he goes along what it means making the journey from employment to self employment. 

We discuss how young love played a part in him finding his way into the automotive industry, the incredible experiences he had as a result of connecting with locals in South Africa and the challenges he faced moving back to his home country of France. We also talk about his journey in recent years to be at the forefront of vehicle subscription and the current transformation that OEM, dealerships and car finance companies are going through.

I'm delighted to be able to introduce Nicolas to you in this episode and look forward to hearing what resonates with you. 

If you enjoy listening to my guests career stories, please follow CAREER-VIEW MIRROR in your podcast app.  

You can contact Nicolas via LinkedIn 

Why not follow us on Instagram @careerviewmirror where you can see a directory of all our episodes and comment on those you have enjoyed? 

This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by Aquilae.  

Aquilae's mission is to enable Fulfilling Performance in the auto finance and mobility industry, internationally. Adopting our Fulfilling Performance Paradigm helps you identify what steps you need to take to enable Fulfilling Performance for yourself, your team and your business. Contact cvm@aquilae.co.uk for a no obligation conversation about your situation. 

Email: cvm@aquilae.co.uk 

Episode recorded on 23 September 2022 

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

And he told me two things. The first one was to make as many mistakes as I can, but each one only once. And the second is to really work at making yourself redundant.

Andy:

Welcome to Career-view Mirror, the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers so far, sharing insights to help you with your own journey. I'm your host Andy Follows. Nicolas Lacker Stuhl listeners. Nicolas is an expert in the rapidly emerging field of car subscription. After spending his work life in big corporations working internationally, Nicolas moved into entrepreneurship 18 months ago. This was initially intended to be a temporary situation, but extended beyond his expectations in terms of duration, but mostly in terms of personal discovery and growth. The husband and father of two, Nicolas is widely enjoying his new lifestyle and discovering as he goes along what it means making the journey from employment to self employment. We discuss how young love played a part in him finding his way into the automotive industry, the incredible experiences he had as a result of connecting with locals in South Africa, and the challenges he faced moving back to his home country of France. We also talk about his journey in recent years to be at the forefront of vehicle subscription. I'm delighted to be able to introduce Nicolas to you in this episode, and I look forward to hearing what resonates with you. If you enjoy listening to my guests career stories, please follow Career-view Mirror in your podcast app.

Aquilae Academy:

This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by the Aquilae Academy. At the Academy we turn individual development into a team sport, we bring together small groups of leaders from non competing organisations to form their very own academy team. We build strong connection between team members and create a great environment for sharing and learning. We introduce the team to content that can help them tackle their current challenges. And we hold them accountable to take the actions that they decide are their priorities. We say we hold our team members feet to the fire of their best intentions. We do this internationally with teams across the world. If you'd like to learn more about the academy, go to www.aquilae.co.uk.

Andy:

Hello, Nicolas, and welcome and where are you coming to us from today?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Good morning Andy, thanks for the opportunity. So I'm here sitting in my home in west of Paris. So home and office actually

Andy:

I think you might be our first guest who has spoken to us from Paris or from France even so you're very very welcome. Where did your journey I can tell from your accent and your name your you've got some some French in there. So where did your journey start? Where were you born? Where did you grow up?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

I was born in the in the East of France near the Swiss and German border.

Andy:

And tell us a little bit about growing up what was your family situation I'm always keen to know where my guests arrived in the world. When you when you arrived what was your situation? Tell us a little bit about your parents and if you have siblings,

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

okay, so I'm the oldest of four. So I've got another two brother and one sister. Pretty much a standard youth in a normal family. My father was working in IT and my mother was a social worker. Pretty much the normal life until I turn 16, 17 where that may be the first really thing which is going in the direction of what my life then has become afterward. And I had the opportunity to spend one year as an exchange student in Texas. And that's pretty much when everything started to change and become a lot more international

Andy:

Okay, well, we'll get to that point shortly. First of for me. all, let's talk a little bit about the family. So you've got father was in IT. Mother was a social worker, and you had two brothers and a sister. And whereabouts on this border with between France and Germany. What was the name of the town? You were?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

It's called Mulhouse.

Andy:

Mulhouse.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Mulhouse. Yes, Mulhouse.

Andy:

Okay, just for people who are really interested. And tell me about school. How did you find school? What sort of a student were you

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Ah school was quite, I would say, easy for for me. May be maybe slightly too easy, which some of the teachers didn't appreciate the way I was in some of the subjects. One thing for your listener, which are not familiar with French system, but you have to decide whether you, you pretty much someone which is more of a scientific person or a generous more literary person. And then by way of weighing of the grade, your, your your strong point weighed by far more than your weak points. And for me, that was I was very strong in math, physics, Bio, and you had like, weighting of seven, eight or nine compared to three or four in French and one or two in languages. So So basically, in terms of grade and passing, if you were good in your subject, which were strongly weighted, you could pretty much fail other topic, and you would still pass.

Andy:

Yeah, so no, that's very interesting. And at what age does that distinction start?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

It starts in the lycee, it's already some are present be before but it really start in the in the lycee and you're probably 15, 16 when it starts.

Andy:

So it sounds like quite a strengths based approach. So encouraging you and incentivizing you, if you like to focus on the subjects that you are better at already

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Exactly, yeah.

Andy:

And so you were leaning towards the sciences already

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

I was leaning toward the sciences, mathematics, biology, physics, I could understand those things pretty naturally. And then I didn't really have to spend too much time on geography, history, French or whatever, having okay grade was sufficient to have like, quite strong average afterwards. So which meant that during some of the classes I might not have been the most quiet and disciplined student once ended up being expelled for three days from school for, for chatting in the class, though.

Andy:

That's quite a strong punishment for chatting in class. Was it very, very strict

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Yeah, it was quite strict school. But the French teacher didn't really like me. I didn't like her either. So we had a mutual understanding on that. But she was on the power of side.

Andy:

Okay. And when you were coming towards the end of your school years, what ideas were you having? How clear were you about what you wanted to do?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Not very clear, to be honest. And that's where maybe when you call it strength base, I also it's funny, because I never really saw it as as a strength based approach. And that's very positive. But in my case, I ended up with with a big surprise, because I was always planning on on studying engineering, because that's where my strength were. But another funny thing about the French system is that when you start applying for university or school and in France is slightly different, because the better education tend to be in the school and not the university. So people try to go first for for the schools.

Andy:

So this is a school their school this is l'ecole.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

L'ecole superieoure

Andy:

Yeah, so it's to distinguish it from a school that we might go to until we're 16 or 18

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Yeah, exactly, after 18 after your baccalaureate, but unlike Germany, in Germany, it's it's clear University is better seen better rank than than a business school, for example. And in France, it's the other way around the business schools are better ranked than the university degrees. And so after the baccalaureate or just before finishing, it's a time where you start applying and I applied for for different engineering schools, being convinced I would get in because I had good grades in engine and good average on the on the grade parts, no issue. But the comment from the teacher in those subjects I didn't take as seriously were quite bad. And those kept me out of the school. So ended up not being accepted in any other engineering school I applied to because I was being seen as potentially disturbing student.

Andy:

But that came as a complete surprise.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

And that came as a complete surprise. So I had to take option B, which was the business school, which contrary to the engineering school, which study your last two or three years of grades and comment from the teacher. The business school, they do a test. It's like nationwide tests and you go if you want to go to that school, you do a test sometime it's several school which comes together to bundle a test. And then you're ranked and the school picked up whether they want to ask for physical interview. So if you're in the top 100 150 or whatever you chance are quite good to go and get interviewed at the school to get a space And actually I did far better in those in those tests. And I ended up joining a business school, which wasn't really what I was planning on doing.

Andy:

No. So how did you can you remember how you felt about this change of plan? Did you blame the school? Or were you cross with yourself? Or can you remember?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

It's a bit hard, but I find it a little bit unfair to judge someone which is 16, 17 for the way he's behaving at school. Yes, I was, I was frustrated that it's not based on competence, but basically on, on what you were able to also get as a comment. But when you think about, it's funny, because your question is prompting, thinking in my head, I never thought it that way. But it's pretty much like business is working as well. It's relationship. And if you want to move within an organisation, it's not just what you do. But it's also how you are perceived. And sometimes it might be two very different thing.

Andy:

Yes, there's a whole conversation about that isn't there, you know, it's how you're perceived, and, and all these other nuances of what you need to do to get to where you were planning to get to, and maybe not being so clear on the importance of some of the things that you thought were less important, less relevant, maybe completely irrelevant to your capability. So you're right, that does happen in business as well. So you found yourself then at

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

basically just one quick step back, I had a bit of a trump card, which, which I use, and that's what I mentioned as the exchange student year, because, at the time, 25 years ago, in France, the level of English was also not very good. But because I had spent a year in Texas, between my previous and final year of the French system, I was completely fluent in English. And so when I had to go for Plan B and apply for business school, I also applied for several but mainly Business School, which were offering by degree, so degree from a French school, and together with a UK school. And obviously, being already fluent in the language probably helped me a lot, get a space in this in this school, which ended up taking me two years in London, and then two year in France in Reims.

Andy:

Right. And how did you get the Texas opportunity? What age were you and how did that happen?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

I was 17, 18. So was basically my father was was working IT for an American company. And they were sending every year they were offering to the different employee, and that was in where he was working, there was one spot available. And that's also a bit of a funny thing, but maybe a reflection of several thing which happened that way in my life. But my father came back one evening, in the in the beginning of the year and asking he say, oh, yeah, you know, there is this opportunity to spend one year abroad, you will be sent in the US for for one year living in a host family. Think about it, if it's something that might be interesting, if you want to discuss discuss it. And the thing went in and back out the other ear, and I never thought about it. And actually like four or five, six weeks later, my father in the morning at breakfast, say today it's a deadline to give feedback on whether you're interested or not. Have you thought about it? And what do you think about it? And basically, I didn't want to look like I didn't think about it, because I've been asked to think about it. I say Yeah, great idea. Let's do it absolutely not understanding what it meant. Because actually, that was what 94, 95 The communication was not what it is today. So once you're there, you're there. It's not WhatsApp and, and Skype and whatever. Communication was very expensive. So I can remember when I when I was there, we had like, once every six weeks, two months, a 10 minute 15 minute call because that was really that expensive at the time and otherwise was laters paper letter which took two weeks to arrive and that was how you communicated. And organisation which was taking care of the whole thing was quite strict on no visits from the family, and no going back for Christmas or whatever it was from August to July. It's one year straight. And once you leave it you understand why because you get those phases of excitement when you arrive, I think I arrived like beginning of August, and everything is great, everything is new, you discover a new lot of thing. School starts end of August, then your, the novelty at school, everybody likes you, everybody wants to talk to you. You're very interesting. And after two or three months, the novelty fades down, everything goes back to normal. And then the reality start hitting. You have to do homework in a foreign language you don't master, and everything becomes hard. And you actually say, what, what is shitty decision? Why have I done this, it's, it's not fun, I don't want to do it. And I think if you were to receive the visit of some family member parents, whatever, around Christmas, which is typically the law, then then you break down and and Christmas was difficult. But I'm born in January, January was even worse, because I turned 18. And actually 18th is you start being allowed to do a few things in Europe. In the US, the only thing you you're allowed to do is drive, drive and have guns or whatever. But drinking, drinking, drinking is 21 and all those things. And you say yeah, why am I there? So so that's that's was quite quite an experience. And it pretty much changed my whole life and way of being from a very basic point of speaking English in a French environment, which is still not a given, even if people are really getting better. But also in the way of integrating a new environment and making the best out of it.

Andy:

So I'm imagining wondering what the Nicolas who landed a year later back in France was like, compared to the one who left I imagine your parents saw quite a change in you

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

I had long hair, I didn't cut my hair when I was there. So it was already a physical difference. And for the story, my parents picked me up at the airport. And we drove to my grandparents on the east coast of France, where where they used to spend the month of July and when I've been every month of July when I was a kid and the family were there and the first two or three days, I couldn't speak French with them. I physically tried and couldn't. I understood everything they were saying. But it was impossible to get the word out in French, so deep was the immersion during the year.

Andy:

That's powerful. Excellent. So when you got into the business school tell us about that. How did that work out for you?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

That works fine it's I think I think Business School is it's it's quite difficult to get into the selection process is getting into it. And once you're there you just pretty much go with the flow spend your your four years do your work placement. It's uneventful if you can call it, there's a lot of parties. But basically I don't think that the business school years are really apart from the from from from the work experience. So I think having those two six months bit of work experience six months in in the UK, and then six months in France was very valuable. But otherwise, it gives you almost like an entry ticket to the job market because people wants you to have a degree. But afterwards you still have to learn everything.

Andy:

Yeah, what a great quote. I love that. So when you What were you doing in London and what were you doing in Reims?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

It wasn't actually in London. I was in Colchester.

Andy:

Oh wow. Right okay,

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

I was working for Paxman Diesel which was a company which was part of the GEC Alsthom group which doesn't exist anymore and they were manufacturing big diesel engines so the one for the ship and mining equipment and train so stuff which were two metre high, four metre long, the cylinder head was bigger than your head so it really is it ahead so that was maybe the first thing in the in a motor kind of world and that was really interesting time interesting six months,

Andy:

but you studied Sorry, I got I didn't I missed some of this. So you studied for two years in in the UK and studied for two years in France as part of your business school.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Yes and the time in France was recognised with the English degree and the time in the UK was recognised for the French degree. And at the end, you end up having two degree one from an English university and one from a French Business School.

Andy:

Very good. So you certainly caught up if you like if you had been had a slight surprise in terms of where you thought you were going to go academically after school after lycee, you you caught up and came out four years later with two degrees. So well academically qualified. And were you having ideas by then of what you you wanted your career to be like, tell us what happened?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Now then then then the funny thing again, I ended up going to a job fair in Brussels, in the middle of the fourth year, some somewhere in January, February. And it was a complete hotel where a lot of European companies transform the rooms into interview room, and you would just take a ticket and get interviewed by and trying to run as many interviews as you could. I can't remember how many were interviewed with apart from one which ended up being successful. And at the time I interview with DuPont de Nemours, so the chemical company, and they say, Oh, we're very interested in your profile, come and see us in Geneva for for a second round of interview. And we'll see what we can do. And so went to Geneva and had some some further interview and they say, Oh, yes, we'd like to offer your job. But we don't know where we've got this programme. And we'll contact you within next few months, we transfer your your CV around the different entity from the from the group, and we'd see. And that must have been some sometime in December, because I remember there being snow in Geneva. And then three, four months later, so in April, I get contacted by one of the subsidiary of DuPont in in Germany, near Frankfurt, and they were doing printing equipment. So really nothing sexy. So flexo does rubber stamp where you put four colour on it, and you run your paper through it and you print packaging. So at the time 50% of whatever supermarkets packaging, were printing, were printed using those those technology. So I'm invited to go there. Say, Okay, let's, let's go there, but I wasn't really excited about the idea of going to Germany. I didn't speak German. I went there, but a bit funny. And then maybe it's it sounds a bit trivial. But let's face it when you're 22. That's pretty much what you think. But I did the interview, they were happy with me and everything. And then they talked about the package. And the package was pretty much 50% higher than than what we were taught by those schools to expect getting out of the school. So now we're talking.

Andy:

Now this is sexy

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Germany didn't sound that bad. And that’s how I ended up in Germany,

Andy:

so having spent all this time becoming fluent in English, you found yourself in Germany incentivized by a generous remuneration package to a product that you didn't find particularly attractive. What was the experience though of landing there and needing to speak German did you need to speak German

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Actually that's a funny thing I didn't. And that was one of the mistake I did. And I didn't do again when I when I landed in Munich. But when I landed in Frankfurt, with the amount of banks and French bank in Frankfurt, there was a quite strong French community of people doing the in France at the time, you see that the the military service, and you could either do 10 months military service, or 18 months working for a French company overseas, so a lot of young people would choose to go work for a French company. And so they were pretty much my age, doing the CSN or so the replacement for the miniatures in Frankfurt, so a lot of young French people. And within two or three weeks, I'd met 40 50 people every evening was full. And I was speaking English during the day because the DuPont was an American company and English was a working language and speaking French in the evening and over the weekend, so I didn't learn any German I spent a year in Frankfurt and didn't learn any German.

Andy:

Interesting. And what came after that,

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

and after that, so after a year in Frankfurt, I was sent by Dupont to Geneva to the headquarter so I ended up with 23 being expats in the French speaking country, which was quite, quite interesting.

Andy:

So that's not you coming across as quite a lucky person so far. Okay, so expat in a French speaking country with age 23 nice

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

living in a very nice area of Geneva with a flat because the funny thing is, there was not really different expat package for the 40 year manager or whatever and the young graduate programme or whatever, so ended up in the expat programme. And the nice car with the star in the in the front and the nice flat in Geneva and everything. And that was a bit crazy, but

Andy:

okay. And what did you take away from that experience in Geneva?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

It's funny because when, when thinking about the discussion and everything I thought about the different And then one thing, which definitely, the big impact is, when arriving in Geneva, I was given if you can say a mentor, and that's a guy called Alisio, which was was great was close to retirement age at the time, it was big personality. And it told me two things, which I still remember and still makes sense. And I still apply them. The first one was to make as many mistakes as I can, but each one only once. And the second is to really work at making yourself redundant, wow, that you can take on your jobs boss, not take him away, but help him with his job. So really not be afraid of delegating. And that's something which I've seen so many times. And again, people trying to keep the task for themselves, because they think it gives them security, where actually it keeps them from being promoted. And I think those were two very powerful

Andy:

What a valuable lesson to get so early in your career, to thing which I still cherish. try and make yourself redundant and as you say, to make as many mistakes as you can only once. That was those were two great takeaways from that role in Geneva. But you didn't stay with DuPont. So what happened there?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Basically, I was I should have, as it was plan to stay three year in Geneva, but after a year was getting tired of of going back and forth between Geneva and Munich, because at the time, I had the German girlfriend in Munich. And the commute started to be long because the I took a flight from time to time, but mostly was doing cars, and there's six, seven hours between the two cities. So after 10 months in Geneva, I say, Okay, I need to look for a job in Munich. And that's it's, I ended up in at BMW is because I wanted to be in Munich, I didn't really say Oh, BMW is gonna be the, my dream job or whatever. It's just, I needed a company in, in Munich. And funnily enough, which I probably will be completely different today. But at the time, being in that DuPont environment, that big, big multinational corporation, I didn't see myself in anything smaller than either Siemens, or BMW, which were the two big company in Munich. So I applied to both of them. And I ended up getting a job at BMW.

Andy:

So this is a significant decision point in your career to move to Munich. And it sounds like it was driven by a girl. You had a girlfriend? Yes. And that how did you meet the

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

I met her during my studies, she she did girlfriend, the same principle of school, but she did the German French link, because that school at partnership with a lot of different university, in Spain, in Germany, in Ireland and UK, in in Canada in the US. And you would always spend two years in your own country and two year in another country. And she'd done the German French link and I did the UK French. And when I moved to Frankfurt, she started an internship in Indonesia. So she was gone, gone. So very far. There was no question about commuting, or whatever. So So Frankfurt was no another question. And then she came back and the company was based. And she worked in in Munich. So that's where the question came of whether it made sense to be in Geneva and being in. But I reassure you, I made the move for love but love didn't last. So

Andy:

it didn't that Well, I was I've been debating how to address that part. Because Because if it didn't last, it's fascinating the impact that it's had on your career journey. And also, we probably don't want to go in to too much detail if this girlfriend didn't become your wife, because when your wife listens to this she won't want our hours on hours about this girl. I'm just curious from the impact it had on your career. So when you arrived in Munich, you've made the decision. I want to go to Munich and Siemens and BMW the big employers in Munich Was it difficult to get the job or

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

I think again, you say I probably was was lucky in more than one way but I've done a six Sigma training at DuPont because they were they were quite big on the six sigma. And the job I landed at the BMW was to be in charge of process efficiency for all the financial service markets of BMW finance. So there was there was a link in terms of what I could bring to BMW at the time. I think that's what made the the transition is using one strength to enter the company.

Andy:

Really interesting. Nikolas so it was the Six Sigma training, you would say that you did at DuPont, which probably became a big conversation topic, when you are interviewing with BMW, and they had a need that they were looking to improve efficiency, process efficiency in financial services. Voila, as they say, there you are and how was your experience? Then? I suppose I'm gonna ask how long did the relationship last after you moved to Munich?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

It ended when I moved because,

Andy:

oh, straightaway.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

move in and I gave my resignation notice to DuPont and I accepted the other job they she say Oh, by the way, I need to tell you that I met someone else. French

Andy:

Oh, so you're lucky. But also there are these slightly frustrating things that might or events that might be perceived as quite frustrating.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

But like you say she had an impact on my life, because without her I wouldn't have ended in Munich, or at BMW or anything that came afterwards. Yeah. And I wouldn't have made my today's wife.

Andy:

Okay, well, we'll spend, we have to spend at least this amount of time talking about today's wife. Okay. So you got the job process efficiency in BMW? Was it what you expected? How did you find it?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Quite hard. Because at the at the point arriving Munich, I didn't speak German. So. So that's, and at the time, BMW was selling cars internationally, but it was far from being an international company. So meeting were conducted in German, and it's do it or die trying. But yeah, we're not going to change for you. There's been a change two or three years after I arrived, where there was a guy called Christian Kalinke, you might you might remember him. Yes, I did bring on expats from the US a lot of expats came, and it became more internationally some of the spoken language in the headquarter. But before that was German, German, German, and every single presentation, you need to get validated by any of the circles needed to be in German.

Andy:

Right? So how did you go about that? It's quite an obstacle to overcome quite a challenge.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

in a way when you when you dipped into it, within six months, you can learn the languages because pretty much there was no choice there. It's German, German, German all around. And it's incremental, you see, you get the feeling that you you learn a bit, and then you're frustrated, because you're not progressing and then all of a sudden tick you to the next level and click click, click, and it almost comes from itself. Also, because I didn't do the same as in Frankfurt, I was getting away from any French people I would meet, to make sure that I didn't fall in the same trap, making it more difficult to meet people get friends, but at least those were German people. TV also helps just watching on TV and getting the the ear used to it. Yeah, and within six months, it works. So it's

Andy:

and I think you were you were focusing in a regional role. Were you on the Asia Pacific region?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

That's afterwards the process part was was global. So actually, yes, interacting with with other markets at the time the project was called proceed you had Alan Crookes from from Australia, which was involved with Mike Wetherell from the UK, you had different people. So there were some English as the as the business language. It wasn't 100% German, but when you ended up in team meetings, or in whatever other meeting, which had to do with the department, everything was was German.

Andy:

Tell us then when you started focusing when you said later on, you went to Asia Pacific region, or you move to focus on that region. Tell us

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Yeah, yeah. Because I did the processing for three, three and a half years. And then Barbara Burghardt, which was the person which interviewed me and get me in the job in the first place. She had moved a year or so before to the region, Asia Pacific, and she had an opening shot. Wouldn't you want to come to work Asia Pacific, I said, Oh, yeah, why not great. And I started doing the region and that was just amazing. But by the time I was with my current wife together, and after 18 months on the job, we looked at it and, and so that's actually spent more time away than at home during the last 18 months, right. But because at the time to save costs on travel and whatever it was like going three weeks to Thailand, and then straight after Thailand, spending three weeks in Korea or being two months in Japan, but actually, that was great experience. Because you you you are in the country, you are with local colleagues. And obviously they want to show you the best of their country. And you discover the country almost as a local not as a tourist, which do a few touristy bit, and you miss on all the true side of Thailand of Korea of Japan or whatever

Andy:

Yes. I'm also thinking Barbara Burghardt was the person who interviewed you, first of all, when you first joined the company, and then was there again, three and a half years later with an opportunity. So the and you mentioned earlier about the importance of relationships in business, the opportunities that come from staying connected to people or you know, she hired you, you obviously got a good reputation in the first role that you did. And she knew she'd made a good decision and was keen to use you, again, or work with you again, these are the little things that lubricate a career and create opportunities for people. And I'm glad to see that coming up in your story. Those years, you're travelling a lot of the time and extended trips. That was around the beginning of this millennium. If you like, then you moved you actually made a move to South Africa. Tell us about that conversation. Were you married by then?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

No, we weren't. We were together but not married by then. And my wife was actually just finishing studies as a social anthropologist. I started in South Africa in first of February 2007. And she came a month later because she had to take part to the graduation ceremony. And a month later, she was in South Africa with me. But again, South Africa was was was it was a funny thing. Because and I think you might have been attending the training in November or December 2006. So that's where we met. Where we met Nicola. Yeah, with Ed. Yeah. And that was during this visit, which Sherene at the time, asked me whether I would be interested to take on the job of credit acceptance. And, again, why not?

Andy:

You weren't you are not. I was trying to work that out. You were in South Africa in November 2006. For the training and that was when you were approached about would you like to join the company? And

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

two months later, I was, I was working. In South Africa, I was with my two suitcase and yeah.

Andy:

Wow. So when you went back from the training, and spoke to your wife or your girlfriend, then how did she respond to that? Opportunity?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

I don't know. I can't speak for her. But she probably also didn't really comprehend what it would mean. She asked South Africa sounds like a nice country. She had been to South Africa before. And it sounded like a great opportunity. But you don't know what's going to be inside that opportunity before you do it. So obviously, for it was a question because one of the constraints was that I was getting a work permits organised by BMW, but she was only going to get a residence permit, no work permits, which is quite a significant impact on a starting career when you just finish studies and you think, oh, now I'm getting my degree. And I'm going to start working now. You're not starting work, darling. We're going to South Africa.

Andy:

So she had a difficult decision to make. Was it a difficult one? Did it happen easily?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

I think it happened easily in a way because she say ah thats like that then I know for some distant learning and I continue learning and whatever and

Andy:

she was prepared to adapt. To enable this to happen. Really interesting point that you made Nicolas about you don't know what's inside an opportunity until you till you take it. Yeah. And and that works both ways, doesn't it? Sometimes the opportunities is a lot better than you expected, and sometimes it isn't. But yeah, for sure. You don't know what it's really going to be like you have a perception. Looking at it thinking about imagining it, but you really don't know the full details until you start. So how was the experience then you she'd been prepared to adapt and come with you is? You gave it a similar amount of thought as when your father asked you if you wanted to go to Texas yes. Oh, well, I don't want to look like I haven't thought about it. Yeah. Okay. So.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

And yes, yes, you're probably has been very little so given to it. Because I can remember the meeting with Sherene happening before the training a few days before because I had organised a few meeting before. And then talking to Ed about what does it mean, because that would have that was my first time as managing people. And there was three teams with over 20 people. And I can remember discussion with Ed. And also that was reassuring, they say, because he say oh yeah, Don't worry, over 20 people, that's, that's easy, it's easy part, starting, managing a few people is a lot harder. And actually, I've seen it later on in life, it's actually easier to manage a large amount of people than manage a small amount of people,

Andy:

you need to say a little bit more about that.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

There are different reasons, but first of all, it is you you always have people which are performing more and people which are performing less. So obviously, you can average out those issue you might have more easily when you get over 20 people than when you get two or three. Okay, so that's the first time and but also talk about impostor syndrome. I was 30, at the time arrive in South Africa and being presented to people, a lot of the people were way older than me, or the three team leader were older than me and say, Okay, that's the manager. And that's a strange situation to be in at the beginning.

Andy:

Yeah. And how did you win them over?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

I can't really remember what's what's, I don't think it's any single single thing, it's probably a way of being and actually, it worked very well. Because while in South Africa, not only the two year contract was extended, first to three, then to five, but also the responsibility were extended to take on fraud and payments. So there was also extension of the responsibility. But I can't, I can't really point out to any specific thing which made it successful. But I can tell you that using the same recipie when I arrived in France didn't work. So I, again, a much harder job in France, maybe because I made the mistake, I say, okay, it works when you do it like that. And now people are different. And you need to find the right job push for different team, different people, different sides of team in France the team was older. So it's difficult to give any any secret recipe about what works or what doesn't work.

Andy:

Okay, well, we'll come on in a moment to your time in France, but before we leave South Africa, how did you find South Africa as a country doing the job that you were doing? So lending money, collecting money in that environment

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

the lending money bit is is an interesting parts. But the first part of the question is, is even more interesting. Because obviously, when you when you lend the money, then then you pretty much having a look at the people and what was amazing, maybe even a bit scary, is to think that I was lending money to people which would spend, actually in relation to their cost of living to the residential cost of living more on a car than on the place they lived. And that's something you wouldn't see in any European country where your rent is actually a third or fourth fifth of what you pay for a car, which, in a way seems completely strange. So at some point, I had the feeling of selling people golden cages that they didn't really need. And there was a bit of a question from time to time, but after what do you think Yeah, okay. People have to choose what's, what they want to do and how they want to live. But it's, it's something a bit strange. But back to your to your first question. Again, maybe being lucky or just it's life and taking the chance. But two years before we went to South Africa, there was a guy called Andy lay, which was working for BMW in South Africa, which came to Munich for six months to be trained on whatever German way of managing because he was being seen as a potential candidate for further development. So he was sent for six months in Munich, and during his time in Munich, we became close spend, we spend a lot of time together. So obviously, when I arrived in South Africa two years later he took turn in taking care of me at the beginning him and his wife buoy took care of Martina and myself. And we were really blessed because thanks to him and, and the circle of friends into which it took us we get to discover South Africa, like not many expats get the chance to experience it from from the inside from the local people living in, in South Africa. And that was really, really a great chance we had, a wonderful time we we were invited to traditional wedding. At the end of the world, pretty much where you almost can't drive to the place we went to. I can remember a funeral in Soweto, where there were 600 people in the church and with two white people, and that was my wife and myself. And that's a strange feeling as well, you think okay, well, or things like taking part to certain ritual like welcoming the wife in the new wife in the family where you have to sacrifice a goat or sheep, and you actually kill a goat and kill a sheep in a garage? was also a story.

Andy:

Yeah, so you really were as a result of establishing the relationship with Andy Lee, when he came over, that gave you a fantastic strong, yes, special friendship when you arrived and access to the real South Africa, if I if that's not a cliche thing to say, but it got you beyond the confines of expat relationships in life and into the local community. Exactly. Wonderful. So really, would have been a rich experience and one that you have many happy memories.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Yeah. A lot of very happy memory. And, and actually, that made the integration in France. So much harder, actually.

Andy:

So tell us about moving to France? And how, how interesting back to your home? Country? What brought that about what was the motivation for that? How did it happen?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Basically it's like, there were several things colliding. But on one side, we enjoy South Africa so much, we bought a house in South Africa. And I discuss a local contract with with BMW to stay on longer. But at the same time, it was clear that after me being five year in the country, I could apply for permanent residence, which would allow me to work even outside of BMW. But the spouse has to wait for another five years after the first spouse get the permit to also request it. Wow. And because the timing also takes some time, so it could have been another 567 years for for Martina to get work permit. So at one point, you say, Yeah, we know we decided to stay but actually, I don't want to stay I want to be somewhere we can be there properly, legally pay taxes and be employed. And that's why we say okay, now, we need to find something else. And we didn't really choose France, it was pretty much the first job which was available.

Andy:

And how did you feel about going back to France? Did that seem exciting to go home, or like the end of the expat

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

No, it was not even going back home because journey or I never worked in France, actually, neither for BMW or for other company, it was actually a new experience because I would have to work in French. And by the time I've been away for so long. I was struggling writing in fact, that was one of the so doing proper formal business writing in French. I didn't, I didn't know because I never done it. So that was a also a new challenge. A new discovery.

Andy:

Okay, were you going back to Paris then was that yes, yes.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

not knowing more and also to improve And the chance for my wife to get get a job. We stayed in in Paris and had a first two year which were just terrible. Really, because the the life in the city she she found a job and everything but the people were unfriendly and cold and all drawn into themselves. The weather the first year was missing the South African weather every day. It's funny the way it's because in South Africa, you get maybe three, four or five days where you don't see the sun. Otherwise you get the rain in the summertime which comes in rains in the afternoon gets out and the sun is out again in the winter, or what they call winter. Even though it's 20 degree. Daytime, you can eat outside everything. You don't see any clouds at that point. That everything by September, October is brown and dry and everybody waits for the rain. But you see the sky blue sky and the sun all the time. And when you arrive in, in our European weather and you will be used to the sun, it's depressing. And actually way back guarantee at three and five year from from BMW in Munich for my German contracts. And after two year was clear that we're gonna go back and my wife was looking for accommodation in in Germany.

Andy:

Okay, did you go back?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

No actually not this it's also a funny story. Another one because actually my wife had been looking for for accommodation in Munich for for more than six months. And everything was really really expensive and old and needed complete renovation. And after six months, when one day when when, when Sunday morning, I can remember we were still in bed I take the iPad, and I say let's look at the French websites, what we could do with similar budget with a similar distance from the office. But the French office, not the German office and see. And one of the first house I found was old stone house, which we still live in today from the 16 something 1600 something and we say oh, let's let's have a look at it. And we drove by and looked at up and my wife fell in love with a driveway. Because the house wasn't open for sure or whatever. So we just had a look at the driveway. So then we contacted the agency. We visited the house the following Saturday. And then we just did it again a week later. And then we made an offer and bought a house in France.

Andy:

Wow, it’s such an emotional thing isn’t it buying a house? It is very much how you feel about it. Where was this house? Then? How far from the office was this was?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Yeah, it's 11, 12 minute from from the office. So it's it's just perfectly located? It's 3030 minute from from Paris. So really, you just get into the country. It's the next village actually is more like a city like village. And we're very much an old hamlet. We stone ours and it's it's really, really nice. And for the stories then we announced to both our family that we finally had found house and bought the house. And my wife's family was very excited because for them since we've been looking for Munich. And she's Austrian. My wife is Austrian. So that meant coming back closer to the family. So, everybody yeah, great news. So when are you moving back? Ah no we're not moving back we bought a house in France

Andy:

All right. And so, you stayed you stayed working there for some more years. Yeah. And did you change your change roles

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

and then I changed role after three years of because the origin role was working with with the dealer all their financing needs and then I moved to used car to do the remarketing and that was also interesting experience because I to prepare for for for substantial growth, which was expected in the in the return of the buyback. So obviously being 36 months contract, you know what's coming and and from 2015 When I started at slightly less than 5000 car to sell per year. And the last year I was there for a year was 20,000 car to remarket. So. Quite a substantial jump.

Andy:

Yes. And you're happy being in automotive by this point. You've been in the industry for quite a few years now. And did you feel like you've landed in the right

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Looking at it with today's eyes. I don't place? know if I ever and ever been the real petrolhead guy which read those those car magazine on the toilet like some of my flatmate at a university used to do but I ended up at BMW because I needed to be in Munich not because I was looking for a car company. But the jobs were interesting. The work environment was really good. I was reappeared bonus and I never really questioned it. So it's never been something obviously today. It would probably be too big a step to get outside of the motor industry. Because that's where most of my experience is and that's what strength I can use and leverage to learn new things to learn business development what I'm doing now, but with a strong automotive background. So I think it's maybe more fall into automotive by chance. But automotive being today currently a very, very interesting place to be because they are huge amount of changes which are happening.

Andy:

And let's talk about some of those in a moment. So, you've found yourself in automotive a little bit by chance, but had interesting jobs, enjoyed the opportunities that you had. And obviously, there were some lifestyle opportunities that came opportunity to live in different countries and see different cultures and very rich and rewarding career up to this point. And you had that interesting growth phase of going from remarketing 5000 cars to remarketing 20,000 cars that ramping up over a three year period. What happened at the end of the remarketing role? What did you do after that Nikolas?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Yeah, maybe just it wasn't three year was five year, the ramping up. But part of the preparing for the ramping up was, in my opinion, I had to find new sales channels, because we were mostly working with the dealer network and auctions. And obviously, for people which understand a little bit about RV’s, if the remarketing performance are not good then through the RV mechanism, you impact the new car price monthly instalment and you make your car less attractive, and you impact that you will new car business. So obviously, what's quite important to remain efficient, and expecting a 400% growth from the dealer network was maybe a bit hard to believe, even though we know now we don't have enough use car in the market. But that's for for different reason. At the time, there wasn't the COVID or the microchips or whatever. And at that time, 2017 2018, the car subscription kind of idea started to come around. And I went to the CEO and say, You know what, we need to start car subscription with used car, we take the lease returning car, because every single car is 36 months old. Yes, we have different range, different engine, different whatever. But everything is started six months old. It's really very similar in terms of product, we put those car to subscription, and then we spread the variety or we create variety in our in our use customer. And at the time, he tell me No, no, that's a bad idea. Go back sell car. subscription is just a fancy thing. And anyway, people are losing money. And at the time through it was where everybody was trying it with new cars. And people were losing money. Also, it was at the time BMW was doing it. But Porsche was doing it also. And you would pay $3,000 per month for the capability of changing anytime you want. But that's not what I wanted to have. It's really the subscription, you know, today with used car. And sometime after that, maybe I don't know six months or whatever, there is a mail coming from the central head office to every staff worldwide and say, Oh, we're doing an innovation competition. Send your ideas. I say okay, let me send the subscription idea even though it didn't make the local level maybe excites a little bit central people. And I submitted my idea and actually I was selected in the top 10. But the CEO wasn't really pleased because I somehow he told me not don't do it. And now we're doing it and ended up going to Munich from Paris with a train. I didn't get validation for my ticket to travel to Munich.

Andy:

Okay, so you'd upset the boss by going over his head or around around.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

So it took me quite a bit of a longer journey. Then I ended up having three minutes to pitch in front of a member of the board the idea. And I ended up winning the contest. Fantastic. Congratulations. So that became the big thing. And then part of the price was actually not IT resources to implement it or budget or whatever. It was three months in the incubator programme. So more work on top of the current work and yes, do it is a great idea. Do it.

Andy:

Yeah, no resources, no budget, but go ahead and make it

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

But the three months in the incubator happen. was I remember was like two days a week so I ended up spending two days a week in Garmin in Munich with some other people which were interested by the idea from from different parts of the company, they were even people from completely different parts outside of financial service. So that was very interesting. And we worked for three months on getting the concept, right people think the idea a few time trying to find or could it work, and to achieve something which would get attention for for a sponsor, and would end up being brought to market. And that's what actually happened afterwards.

Andy:

So talk me through, you had three months to prepare, were you preparing then to get a sponsor, you said so well, is this going to be an internal sponsor or how

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Internal sponsor. Basically, it's It's your typical startup incubator programme, where they teach you different methods of all to probe and test and develop and present your idea. I can remember the first day after only an hour and a half or two hours of explanation, they say, No, we give you 10 minute explanation, or you do a questionnaire and you have to go out and interview 10 people, you have to find 10 people and sell them your idea and check whether your idea actually works. That was one of the basic principles get out of the building. That was the what they used to call it. And you had to talk to people. And that was quite funny, because I can remember was a Wednesday at 11, who do you find on the street, so we decided to go to the parking lot of IKEA, which, which wasn't too far. And who shops at IKEA at 11. In the morning, it's newly mother or you see the pram or whatever buying stuff for the kids room, but it's not your mainstream customer. And then you have to try set your idea see what the people think about it. And it's back to reality quite quickly. And then you have to give for the idea and everything and, and that was a very interesting framework, we had to do also looking at pricing, for example. So so we use the smoke test methodology we we build a fake website with with MINI cars, trying different prices, new car use car with a b testing, we had to take the site down because after two or three days, one of the dealer saw the website went back to some of the headquarter guys or what are you offering for products there were no product, we just wanted to see whether people would click and what price they were ready to pay. And obviously at the end, you end up getting a message our product and our construction, we contact you whenever the product is ready. And that was under the radar kind of thing, which was not validated by anybody within BMW.

Andy:

Oh my goodness, this was this was in your three month incubator period

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

And we everybody was kind of concerned and we said can we do that because we knew that it would not be validated by anybody in the normal way. Or you could have in take six months to validate such a such thing and then we needed the information now so we put a few picture of MINIs on and we stamped the website together had a few Google Ad pay traffic to generate traffic to the site and and started monitoring the clicks. But that's something we had completely under the radar and and we had to take it down because it almost created an issue.

Andy:

Yeah, I can understand that. Did you get the information you needed before you had to take it down?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Yes, yes, we get some information and that allowed us to validate the fact that there was demand for for use car subscription and we could also kind of see at what price level the people were willing to take the offer

Andy:

very interesting and where did that lead

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

and basically then after the three months was okay now you you do it you implement it in France. But without any specific IT resources without any specific budget without anything so I ended up looking at a partnership with a subscription startup and had discussion with different player at the time that was Kluno there was Drover from the UK and other and finally we decided on Drover and we started a partnership with withdraw and we set it up used car subscription for the French market working together with with Drover which later on get bought out by Cazoo and get killed by Cazoo which is also a different topic or a different discussion. And in such a sad story.

Andy:

Yeah, interesting. But what a great learning from that remarketing role. The ramp up requires you to find other channels other ways to dispose of the vehicles recognising that the impact that remarketing values have on the attractiveness of the used car monthly rental it all finds its way back. The residual value affects the the monthly cost of the car. So looking for ways to innovate. and recognising the opportunity to potentially create subscription products for used cars that you had, then pitching the idea for the innovation competition, getting through to the top 10 winning the competition, upsetting a few people on the way that learning a lot in that incubator phase and then building building it along with with drover in France. What was your experience of it once you got it off the ground

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

It was great, because basically, it was quite a high attention kind of project because people were concerned about subscription a lot, what to do, because there was a time where everybody 2018 2019 When we were thinking about it. And the US had been running subscription for some years, and didn't even have reached three digit contract. And within three months, we were at three digits. And we had a very nice and strong growth and very quickly, we became the most efficient markets within the whole of BMW finance. And the only one doing it with used car. So that was also quite attractive, because it was going around that that issue with, yeah, but if you if you put a new car in it, all of a sudden when the car runs out of the of the dealership, it loses 30%. So how do you cater for this loss of value? And that's that's one of the main reasons why subscription can't really work with new cars is because of the initial depreciation. But the to go back to the more general question because otherwise we could spend hours in terms of discussing subscription and VAs and, and all those good things which are really very interesting topic. But for me, personally, we were we were internally under BMW so two people trying to manage everything trying to solve every single issue, get the car ready, identify which car the customer wanted, and pick the car because at time, we were still end picking the car after we thought about all processes and automating and everything but very quickly, I think the seventh so we didn't do 10 cars there was a x three, where the customer picked up the car. And when the car got delivered, the brake fluid light was flashing. So obviously the car the guy received the car on on the Monday and on the Thursday, he wants to go skiing with a car and the brake light is flashing so obviously he's worried taking his family on a trip with a car which is not okay. calls on the Tuesday, they managed to organise an appointment for the Wednesday which is usually if you want to an appointment in the in the Paris region, it's two three weeks waiting time. So drover managed to find an appointment for for the following day. And then the dealership, get the car and say, oh, yeah, sorry, the brake fluid is done in half an hour, no issue. But the car is under recall action because the radiator can catch can coat and fire, boom. And we don't have any replacement car to offer. Because obviously, we have other customer which took all the car and so the the customer ended up paying a Uber to go to a six agency to get a GMC for Mercedes to go on on his skiing trip. So not really what you want to see. But basically you launch a new product and you have to learn from all the different things that you didn't think about. And that's where the end picking of the car started where we had to go and look at luckily for us, they are system which tells you even without being in the car, what's the status of the car, but then checking that the brake fluid was okay that there was no recall action. And all this good thing which actually should be system driven. Were not with access, but someone had to go and access the system.

Andy:

Yeah. Because it was a startup solution really

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

startup solution exactly. But the thing worked and we had great success and we were able to retest a few seeing attractiveness of the car which car works where we were testing. And the good thing is even like a red X for which would be a nightmare and remarketing was was doing marvellous in subscription. Because when people don't don't have a commitment in terms of keeping the car, they go bit more fancy on the colour on other things. So you start learning what works what doesn't work and that was really I ran it for for a year before leaving. And that was really everyday was was yeah solving some problem but was was enjoyable.

Andy:

So do you believe in the future of used car subscription?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

I do i in the in the in the future? subscription. But as a step, because the way I see subscription is a way for people to cut the personal link to cars, which is very much present today, and I don't say it's going to be for 100% of all customer, you can have, highly enthusiastically car enthusiast for which it is very important. But I think for for the majority of driver, which today see the car as being part of a reflection of who they are, if they enter a subscription model, then the car is becoming less reflection because they can say, Oh, I didn't really choose like, it's a subscription car. And once you reach that point where people stop identifying through which car they drive as much as they do today, then you can start the next step of the journey, which is the sharing. And that's really where the interesting bit is coming is to mix subscription with sharing. Because if we look at cars, and I see it, where I live, the amount of car which are parked outside and move from time to time, but are there standing, you could you could easily take 10 cars out, replace them by three, four, maybe five cars on a shared basis, and everybody will be just as happy you had less car and would cost you less. And it wouldn't necessarily be worse for the car industry because those cars will be used. Use more. So you would actually accelerate the cycle. So you would have more maintenance more often, the car will be renewed more often. So I think from from a car industry point of view, it wouldn't have that much impact. But from a user experience, you will just make a better use of that assets, which otherwise stands for a very long period of time. Yeah,

Andy:

that makes a lot of sense. Nicolas and as you say, this is a topic we could have, we could have a separate discussion about just about subscription. And maybe we do that sometime. Let's let's keep with your career journey. Thank you for sharing that some really good insights and some very first hand, you're probably one of the more experienced people on the planet in terms of actually delivering car subscription and operating it. So thanks for sharing those insights, what happened after your project with drover and that collaboration and you left BMW Tell me about that.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Basically, I had the opportunity to work for another startup in the subscription or car subscription space. So ViveLaCar. And they were on a road to expansion and they looked for for someone to set up their operation in France and Benelux. So having followed the setup from from drover so from a customer point of view, because I was BMW i was i was the customer I was some of managing, or collaborating with the drover people. I was telling them what they didn't work did not work. So it was almost like from outside of the swimming pool telling them how to swim.

Andy:

I love that analogy. Yeah.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

And then I felt like actually, the fun was happening in the water, not outside of the water. But I was outside I was giving them instruction or advice or Well, why don't you do that. And they were the ones swimming. And that was pretty much the time I had to decide. So do I want to stay outside of the water or jump in the water. And I had the opportunity to jump in the water and set the car subscription for ViveLaCar which when when the opportunity came, I say okay, let's do that. And I spent almost a year again, doing now myself what I've seen drover do for for the year. And that was also very, very interesting experience.

Andy:

How was it different being in the swimming pool instead of

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

First of all, the two companies are on the side? vastly different, ViveLaCar was a startup with two and a half three year old 50, 60 employee at the time. So really a startup and BMW is that big machine so 100,000 employees worldwide. So it’s just to world between the two companies. So that's already a big big change.

Andy:

That's a big deal then in terms of a decision to make How difficult was that and how did What process did you go through to make that decision?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Obviously it's it was really, really difficult because you're you live a very secure job with very nice benefits driving nice car changing often, you know, everybody I used to add a lot of seed contact in Munich with people I knew from the past. And whenever there were new project you would see the same face again and same people and, and I was speaking German. So it also made things easier. So it was really like, let's, let's call it a comfort zone. But that experience with Drover, managing that part was really what was fun. But I was still doing the reporting bit, the purchasing the purchasing project. interesting, but they were not such a kick at the time. So when when, when the chance came to say, Okay, let's, let's do it. Let's try that. Okay. Yeah, why not?

Andy:

So you're moving towards, you'd experienced a little bit of fun, a kick from collaborating with drover. And that ignited something you wanted to have some more of that, in your future, you wanted to have a different balance more of the exciting stuff? And how did what did Martina? How did she react to this idea of you walking away from all that security?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Obviously, that didn't really excite her that much, because obviously, there is a mortgage to pay there. I was so convinced about the, because I was really on to car subscription, I was like, that's the next big thing. And I'm sitting on it early stage, so I'm there. The rest, even want it. ViveLaCar didn't want to but at the time, I even wanted to invest some money to say, Okay, I believe in that thing. So, I'm glad I didn't, because I don't know what what money That would be worth today. But I was at the point of making the move really, in believing that car subscription was the next big thing. And I think it's probably gonna gonna be a big thing. But as as an individual, which has limited means, I mean, I'm not venture capital or business venture or whatever. investing your money might have been a bit too much. So that's one thing where my wife stopped. No lets not go that far. But also moving was not the sexiest thing, because it means uncertainty as well. And later on, she was proved right because I left BMW with the promise or with the say, ha, with ground, we found a company in France, within three months, and then you get employed by the French entity. But in the meanwhile, we will find another way we invoice as whatever. So basically, I left a fixed employment to become an entrepreneur. And I was doing my own consulting and invoicing ViveLaCar as a customer, I was my only customer, but I was invoicing them. And everything went well, until the fundraising kind of stopped working as well. And coming to close on two years because I started mid of mid of February, in December, end of December, where they think, oh, we need to cut down the hour and the days because actually, we need to look at the treasurer, Treasury side of thing. And I say, okay, good. Understand that you're a fundraising is not going as you plan. But what does that mean in terms of timing, when when can we move back to full full time occupation? We don't know and say maybe q2 now. So now we can't give you any guarantees, okay, good, then I need to get another customer because I can't just be employed for 2025 30% of my time and just do nothing in the rest. And that's, again, was a very challenging part because that's pretty much where the penny in the ground like you, I think that you say and it became real, I'm not just employed at some place, and I've got my salary coming every month is I need to find customer I need to find work, I need to invoice the work. Because even though I was so to say self employed, it was 100% with a with a one customer so it didn't change too much.

Andy:

Because you hadn't intended to be a consultant. This is this was a self employed stepping stone until the establishment of a French entity when you will be taken on board and be a full time employee again. So being a consultant was really just a mechanism for being able to work on that project, wasn't it? So now you realise that there wasn't enough work going to be coming from that direction and needed to look for other clients and how did that go?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Yeah, firstly, it was back to my wife we say No, you listen to me and you find a proper job. A real job you apply for jobs. Obviously I was applying on the site for jobs but didn't find anything that really was what I wanted. And at the same time, I really enjoyed the fact of being in the subscription area because I was really becoming an expert. I was knowledgeable in the field. And that's where I reached out to you or reach out to other people, which were doing that kind of experience that kind of thing of being self employed to, to understand to get reassurance to, to maybe find answers. And I'm very thankful to you and two other people, which took the time to share their knowledge, their insight, because it, it was very helpful for me to understand certain aspects. And to keep the motivation in in trying to find customer which, which I did, I started a few different gigs, a few days here and a few days there. And they ended up being being good. But the funny thing is that it's almost like the fixed employment try to get back to me to squeeze me, because some of the customer ended up working with, say, oh, and what about getting a fixed job with us? And one of them? I said, No. And the other one, I started really considering every because it was a really good, good offer.

Andy:

And is that where you are now?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

No, no, actually, I'm still a self employed. With with the discussion of being permanently employed, and it might it might materialise, quite soon. Right? Right. It's funny because I don't have the same expectation as I had a year ago, or 18 months ago about it matter, because it happened to me once No, no. Okay, if it doesn't happen. So be it.

Andy:

So your comfort zone has expanded to allow you to be comfortable with a level of uncertainty that you would have been uncomfortable with two years ago?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Yes, and no. But it's also a very interesting part of the journey I had to make. And I'm still making, because when you're self employed, and you write an invoice, it gives you a completely different sense of your value of your contribution. Because not only it's not certain, so they may say, we don't need you anymore, but you realise what they actually paying for your services. And that's a very interesting step, because you say, okay, am I contributing that much? And I never asked myself the same question when I was employed, where I should actually, everybody should ask that question. But I think when when you want to fix employment, it's, it's somewhat becoming something like granted. And when you are the one writing the invoice at the end of the month, say, Well, okay.

Andy:

I'm pretty sure that's just you, Nicolas, everybody else in employment is thinking every day am I delivering? Am I worth this, am I delivering. I'm having fun with you. What a wonderful, wonderful point. I mean, there's so much clarity with, with your situation now where you know, I'm worth what the market will pay me and what I can achieve, what I can achieve in terms of sales to identify people in the market who will pay me I remember sitting in meetings sometimes in the corporate world, just thinking of how much is this meeting costing? How many people have we got in the room? What are their salaries? What are the extra costs that we have, you know, what percentage do we have to add on to their salary to give a figure for what they cost? And how long so what's that as an hourly rate? So this is a meeting that's potentially costing three or 4000 pounds? Are we getting three or 4000 pounds or 10,000 pounds worth of value out of this meeting? But that tends to be hidden? It's not something we think about?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Well we don't want to think about it. Because we might not like the answer some of the time. Yeah.

Andy:

Okay, so that's another episode we could on that topic. So yeah,

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

that's not that's not those to job I’m not where I am. But basically, it was a large dealer group and had a lot of very good discussion with with with the person there and even ended up writing my own job description. And at the end, it was just the job would have been really interesting. But it's it was based quite far from where I lived without so much opening for remote working. And my wife just started a new position this year in January and I said, No, I'm not I'm not going to be the one again after South Africa and taking her already out of a job cause saying, Okay, now No, we moving because she she wouldn't have moved actually, she will say yeah, okay, then you go along. That's fair. That's fair. So I choose for the staying self employed with with a iVendi which I'm doing today and say no to a very good, large dealer group in France. So I'm not regretting it. But when I said no, that was I thought, am I crazy? Am I just silly? Because now I'm the one having to develop business and having to knock on doors and try to get people convinced about the solution. And it can be quite hard work and I would have been on the other side of the chair, I would have had to try to find which project which solution I am willing to try develop pilot and whatever so will been in some aspects probably a more comfortable job

Andy:

Yeah. So you've chosen the less comfortable path

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

and the less secure

Andy:

but you get to stay with Martina. Exactly. Tell us a little bit about iVendi and what it does and who it's good for and who you want to talk to.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

I think maybe that's again, the maybe still something which is even more relevant than what iVendi do because I'm very happy to talk about iVendi with anybody which is interested and they can contact me. But I think from from a more career journey I think the way I ended up working with iVendi and the way iVendi is actually as a company is also something which might be relevant to your listener because the funny thing is, as I mentioned beginning of this year, when I started trying to find some own customer for my newly found intrapreneur business, I did have some some work looking at other websites for marketplace and how to improve it. And that's how I came about iVendi solution. I started looking at what they offer and how that could actually come as a as an option for that specific customer. And to get more information on the on the solution. I contacted through LinkedIn one other guy which commented on different posts, and we agree that we spent half an hour to get to know each other and discuss and whatever. And finally the discussion with my now dear friend Paul Bennett, Paul Bennett's Do you know him? I know Paul Yes. We ended up talking for maybe an hour and a quarter hour and a half but and then he had some other commitments. So we stopped it. It went very, very well. And we just had a connection and come to it. They started talking and saying ah yeah and we're going to be in France end of end of February. We're going to be in Lille and in my head yeah, there's not too many bank and Lille and I say you know what, I also work in interact with that that same bank, so maybe we could meet and, and I ended up meeting the bank. In the afternoon, late afternoon, seeing the iVendi crew, which was there for the meeting the following day with the same bank in the evening, we spent the whole evening together. The three of them first had some beer and some food and at some other drink and we had a really marvellous evening, evening. I stayed they invited me or paid for my hotel. So I stayed the same hotel as they were we had breakfast together. And everything was went really, really well. And then Paul came back to me and say, Yeah, we'd like you to come to London. We have we have to discuss this.And in my mind, I say okay, they're gonna make me an offer. And the funny thing is, that's actually no, they were not there to make me an offer. I went then to the Eurostar to St Pancras station. We started having some coffee in the bar upstairs in the indoor time, which is quite nice place. And then after the drink, we ended up going for some foods. And after two or three hours there was Richard there, one of the co founder of iVendi. I asked the question, Yes, nice chat and everything. But I thought you wanted to make me an offer or something. Let's come to the point. They say no no, no, no, we didn't want to make you an offer. We just wanted to get to know you. Because we want to be sure of who we let in. And that was really I thought okay, Well, that's different. And also what's what was really interesting is I've experienced the past found founder of the German startup and he also visited me once in Paris, and during the afternoon, the restaurant and the mobile phone was ringing all the time. He was picking up and we couldn't have any conversation was always interrupted by the phone and Richard, which probably could be interrupted quite often, based on his position and his responsibility, may have looked at his phone once or twice, and I've really felt that okay, there is something different there. They are here to talk to me to speak to me interested about who I am. And that's that's really something I value. And also what I learned afterward isn't really understood it. They are based in Colwyn Bay in an hour. West of Manchester, they could have asked me to come there, they made part of the journey, which in a way is also a form of saying, Yeah, we care enough also to make some efforts.

Andy:

Yes. That's really interesting. But what a lovely story and what's really good insights about the cultural side. And yeah, really fascinating. Thank you for sharing that Nicolas. And as you say, anyone who wants to talk to you about iVendi that can find you we'll put your LinkedIn details in the show notes and people can find you. Nicolas you mentioned to me that you were very happy to be contacted by other people who find themselves in a similar situation, perhaps facing decisions that they're working on, say a little bit more about that.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

It's also an offer to other people, which might be facing similar situation, to feel comfortable reaching out to me because I really benefited from from some open discussion with people which have lived the same experience. And I'll be I'd be very happy to also discuss maybe not with 500 people, but if some people feel like they are in situation where there's this similarity and there they want and outside view and a chat by all means, I think it's like giving back what you and other have given me I think it’s I’d be quite happy to do that.

Andy:

Is there anything I haven't asked you about that you think I should have done?

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

No, I don't I don't see anything, there might have been some people which are an influence over my life, I should have I wanted to thank and we didn't mention them.

Andy:

who's that? Who just

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

the top of my head, um, maybe maybe Tracy Leith which was also the manager in South Africa, which allowed me to grow by being very delegating and trustworthy. So I've really appreciated mentoring. also think thank you, thank you for for the opportunity. Because just having this opportunity to chat, obviously, it's something which didn't happen this morning, you we get in touch three or four weeks ago. So there is also a journey, which I made myself because of this chat. And that's also very interesting, because you start reflecting, rethinking about certain events and the way the influence that might have had on your life. So it's almost like you made me a gift as well. So thank you, Andy

Andy:

you are so welcome. And I'm glad you've had a positive experience. And it is wonderful. I love love having these conversations and knowing that it's causing people to reflect and then the subsequent benefits that come from that. So it's been an absolute pleasure. Nicolas, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your story and all the insights that came out of it. Thank you very much.

Nicolas Lacker Stuhl:

Thank you, Andy. Thank you very much.

Andy:

You've been listening to Career-view Mirror with me, Andy follows. I hope you found some helpful points to reflect on in Nicolas story that can help you with your own career journey or that of those you lead parent or mentor. You are unique. And during my conversation with Nikola, you will have picked up on topics that resonate with you. A few things that stood out for me was his being caught out by the emphasis on subjects that he was strong in and not appreciating that his performance and behaviour in other areas was going to be considered by the Higher Learning establishments when making their decisions. The opportunity to go to Texas age 17, which helped him become fluent in English, maintaining his international studies with two years in the UK and two years in France, not being that excited about a role in Dupont in Frankfurt, but then discovering the package was 50% More than they'd been led to expect. Finding himself in Geneva as an expat with an apartment and a nice car aged 23 and learning Six Sigma in that role that would then help him get a job improving process efficiency at BMW Financial Services, that this significant step in his career journey to move to Munich was driven by wanting to be with a girl who ended their relationship shortly after he'd made the decision going on a training course to South Africa and being approached whilst there to join that business. And how supportive Martina was to say yes to a move to South Africa, when she wouldn't be able to work there herself an incredible experience that they both had in South Africa as a result of making friends with the locals. having a tougher time moving back to Paris where there was not so much sunshine, and the locals weren't as friendly. How responsibility for remarketing and the growing number of return vehicles required innovative new channels and open Nicolas up to the idea of subscription. How he found a way to get his idea noticed, even if it was not well received by his boss at the time, winning the innovation competition and getting the opportunity to spend time in the incubator lab, developing a solution, being able to get hands on experience of car subscription, and being so taken with it that he was prepared to leave behind a secure job and join a startup. The challenges he faced in that role that required him to then become even more entrepreneurial, and how he's now using so much of his career experience in his current role, and the impacts that the way the team at iVendi behaved had on his impression of them, and his desire to work with them. You can contact Nicolas via LinkedIn and we'll put links in the show notes to this episode. We publish these episodes to celebrate my guests careers, listen to their stories and learn from their experiences. And I'm genuinely interested in what resonated with you. Thank you to all of you for sharing your feedback. Thanks also to Hannah and Julia, who as part of the Career-view Mirror team here at Aquilae. works so hard to deliver these episodes to you. This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by Aquilae. Aquilae’s mission is to enable fulfilling performance in the mobility industry, we use our very own fulfilling performance paradigm. To help you identify what steps you need to take to enable fulfilling performance in your business. Contact me directly. If you'd like to know more, my email is andy@aquilae.co.uk. If you want to know more about fulfilling performance, you can listen to episode 6061 and 62 they’re short side mirror episodes that explain our mission and its origin. And remember folks if you know people who would benefit from hearing these stories, please show them how to find us thanks for listening

Welcome, family and school
A year as an exchange student in Texas
Starting work with Dupont in Germany then on to the Headquarters in Switzerland
Moving to Munich and BMW
Working for BMW in Asia Pacific
Moving to South Africa with BMW
Moving to Paris with BMW - first experience of working in his home country
Pushing for used car subscription
Creating Used Car Subscription Partnership with Drover
Leaving BMW to join ViveLaCar
Becoming self employed with iVendi
Wrapping up and takeaways