Peter Coe: When following your passion doesn't work out, pivoting and developing a successful corporate career, learning from those around you and leading with authenticity and positivity.

Peter has traversed a career in the Automotive Financial Services industry for over 18 years with BMW Group in Australia from the early beginnings in an intern program through to senior leadership roles across Finance, Operations, Risk and Sales functions culminating in C level roles as Chief Risk Officer and GM Sales & Marketing.  
Peter holds a bachelors degree in Applied Science from Deakin University Melbourne a Masters in Commerce also from Deakin a diploma in Financial Planning from the Financial Planning Association of Australia and his professional accounting qualifications from CPA Australia.  

He has experience across diverse functions, and he is passionate about leading and developing individuals and teams, Peter has gained deep experience leading through significant periods of organisational and regulatory change. 

In our conversation we talk about his earliest work experience in the family business his initial wish to have a career in sport and the subsequent need to pivot, go back to the drawing board and embark on a corporate career. We discuss his progression during 18 years with BMW in Australia which culminated in a difficult decision and change of course for him. Without spoiling the surprise for you, I will share that there is a satisfying plot twist at the end! 

I first met Peter a dozen or more years ago and I was immediately struck by his attitude to learning and leadership. It is my pleasure to introduce him to you and to share his career story in this episode. 

If you enjoy listening to my guests career stories, please follow CAREER-VIEW MIRROR in your podcast app.  

You can contact Peter via LinkedIn. 

Why not follow us on Instagram @careerviewmirror where you can see a directory of all our episodes and comment on those you have enjoyed? 

This episode of CAREER-VIEW MIRROR is brought to you by Aquilae.  

Aquilae's mission is to enable Fulfilling Performance in the mobility industry.  

We use our very own Fulfilling Performance paradigm to identify what steps you need to take to enable Fulfilling Performance in your business.  

We leverage our Aquilae Consulting arm for business topics and the Aquilae Academy for people topics. 

And, once we're agreed on the way forward, we work alongside you and your teams to enable Fulfilling Performance and achieve your goals. 

I explain Fulfilling Performance in more detail in Episode 60 of CAREER-VIEW MIRROR which is a short Side Mirror episode. 

If you enjoy CAREER-VIEW MIRROR, please follow us in your podcast app. 

Email: cvm@aquilae.co.uk 

Episode recorded on 7 October, 2022 

Transcript

Peter Coe: 0:00

Sitting down in the waiting room waiting for her and I got given a application form to fill in. And it was asking me, my eye colour, my height, my weight, my interests, and I'm like, what is this settlement thing I'm signing up for?

Andy: 0:14

Welcome to Career-view Mirror, the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers so far, sharing insights to help you with your own journey. I'm your host Andy Follows. Peter Coe listeners. Peter has traversed a career in the automotive financial services industry for over 18 years with BMW Group in Australia from the early beginnings in an intern programme through to senior leadership roles across finance, operations, risk and sales functions, culminating in C level roles as chief risk officer and GM sales and marketing. Peter holds a bachelor's degree in applied science from Deakin University Melbourne, a master's in commerce also from Deakin, a diploma in financial planning from the Financial Planning Association of Australia and his professional accounting qualifications from CPA Australia. He has experience across diverse functions and he's passionate about leading and developing individuals and teams. Peter's gained deep experience leading through significant periods of organisational and regulatory change. In our conversation, we talk about his earliest work experience in the family business, his initial wish to have a career in sport and the subsequent need to pivot, go back to the drawing board and embark on a corporate career. We discuss his progression during 18 years with BMW in Australia, which culminated in a difficult decision, and a change of course for him. Without spoiling the surprise for you, I will share that there's a satisfying plot twist at the end. I first met Peter a dozen or more years ago, and I was immediately struck by his attitude to learning and leadership. It's my pleasure to introduce him to you and to share his career story in this episode. If you enjoy listening to my guests career stories, please follow Career-view Mirror in your podcast app.

Aquilae Academy: 2:23

This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by the Aquilae Academy. At the Academy we turn individual development into a team sport. We bring together small groups of leaders from non competing organisations to form their very own academy team. We build strong connection between team members and create a great environment for sharing and learning. We introduced the team to content that can help them tackle their current challenges. And we hold them accountable to take the actions that they decide are their priorities. We say we hold our team members feet to the fire of their best intentions. We do this internationally with teams across the world. If you'd like to learn more about the academy, go to www.aquilae.co.uk.

Andy: 3:09

Hello, Peter, and welcome and where are you coming to us from today?

Peter Coe: 3:14

Andy, thank you very much. I'm coming from a beautiful little part of Melbourne down at the Mornington Peninsula called Mount Eliza.

Andy: 3:21

Mount Eliza, Mornington Peninsula, Melbourne, Australia. Fantastic. Well, you are very welcome. And thank you for giving up your Friday evening to do this. That's very kind of you.

Peter Coe: 3:34

Where would I rather be?

Andy: 3:37

You have lost none of you charm. Where did your journey start? Peter, where were you born?

Peter Coe: 3:47

Born and bred Melbourne actually so lived here all of my life and probably within about a 20 kilometre radius. Wow, moved round different spaces. So that's probably a common theme you might hear through our conversation

Andy: 3:59

Right, well I'm looking forward to hearing more. So you're born there. You grew up there. Can I ask you a little bit about your family situation? What were mum and dad doing? Did you have brothers and sisters? That sort of thing?

Peter Coe: 4:11

Yeah, definitely Andy. I do have an older brother who's actually not far from you at the moment. So he's been over in Manchester for the last 20 or so years. Oh, wow. working away over there. So and mum and dad are still here and literally about three kilometres down the road from me here in Mornington. So yes,

Andy: 4:32

so I always ask what parents did for a living or do for a living because I'm curious what my guests what sort of roles my guests have had visibility of as they were growing up. I also curious though now because your brother's in the UK and in Manchester, which is my birthplace. What's he doing?

Peter Coe: 4:49

He is working for the General Medical Council. Looking after all the IT systems there so no doubt a very stressful role given the last few years.

Andy: 5:00

Absolutely I'm sure well, our hats a hat goes off to him and his colleagues. Tell me though, what did mum and dad do? What did you see them doing when you were growing up?

Peter Coe: 5:11

Dad ran a lot of his own businesses through the years and sort of a lot of the hard work and ethic that I've probably grown up with came from there, first and foremost.

Andy: 5:19

So he was an entrepreneur.

Peter Coe: 5:22

He was, he ran news agencies, retail businesses over the years, and was up and working from three in the morning till seven at night, every day I can remember. So he never gave a day up and was always committed to that.

Andy: 5:38

And did you get involved as a youngster, were you roped in and recruited?

Peter Coe: 5:42

For as long as I can remember, and I do remember, Right. So you enjoy that's important. So the work ethic bit must have been six or seven and I used to get dressed up when he came in at three in the morning for me to go off to work with him and serve behind the counter in the newsagents. So I think a lot of my work ethic came and stemmed from there, back in that stands out, clearly going to be very valuable going those days where it was just second nature to get up, go to work, enjoy it and enjoy talking with people. forward and has been very valuable. But I was pleased to hear you enjoyed it. Yes I did. Well looking back, I must have because I kept doing it and going with him at three in the morning and wanting to get up. And there was many a time when he said no, no, no, go back to bed and stay here. But still remember those days when I guess just get dressed up ready to go with him?

Andy: 6:35

Okay, so there was it wasn't him dragging you there by any means. That's really cute that he would tell you sometimes No, go back to bed. So how has this? How, if I may ask, what has this meant in terms of the relationship you have with your father, this very early working relationship?

Peter Coe: 6:53

I must admit, it's not something you ponder on in terms of what it did for our relationship. But it definitely instilled that connection where he understood sort of what drove me and was very much just a guider, rather than forcing me into different areas. And it's one thing looking back on both of my parents, mom as well ,not to exclude her from our conversation, but they both never forced me into going in a certain direction. They've always been there to encourage me and guide me along whatever I wanted to do.

Andy: 7:28

Thank you for sharing that. Because I often ask what sort of expectations were on? You know, did someone feel a sense of expectation either from the family or from, you know, from elsewhere? Let's talk about mum then. So as a role model, what did you see her doing?

Peter Coe: 7:44

Mom in the early days was always there for us. So mom was the one that was taking us to school and my brother and I, we went to the same school, so and went to the same school for 18 years. So she was always there for us taking us to and from and looking after us from that day in. So that connection that we had formed over the time, she was always supportive and always there, encouraging us to follow our dreams and follow what we wanted to do, always along the way.

Andy: 8:12

Right. So it sounds like you had a really good start, Peter, in terms of the environment that you were the family environment that you were brought up in.

Peter Coe: 8:22

And it's this sort of point of life where you do reflect on it that really where I have been able to get to, I would never never have been here without the opportunities that they were able to one work and sacrifice some of their lives to give my brother and I the opportunities that we have had to then be able to forge our lives and careers and direction that we have been able to choose to do so. I could not have asked for a better upbringing if you've asked Andy

Andy: 8:49

Well, if they listen to it they only listen to the first few minutes of this conversation they'll get something out of it

Peter Coe: 8:57

we can stop there now.

Andy: 9:00

So thank you Peters mum and dad great job. Although Do you know what I thought when you said you were happy working, getting up and working alongside your dad in the in the newsagent, my memories of working alongside you you know maybe 10 years ago in Australia where you were happy you were very happy sort of twinkly eyed, I'm even going to say twinkly, sparkly eyed guy at work. You know who enjoy it, even though there's a lot going on really had pleasure in it. So we'll get to that point later. You mentioned you went to the same school for 18 years. Tell us about school and studying and what sort of a student were you or what did you get out of school?

Peter Coe: 9:41

My brother and I went to both the same school for 18 years and brother he's five years older than me. So I was there from the moment I was born basically, taking him to school, so never knew anything different. But from those days it was a community really that we formed and we we're part of it school there you know it wasn't a huge school at that point of time. But it was somewhere that we grew up with, they grew up in a local area where a lot of kids we knew and we were lived close to. But from school, it was something that I always loved as well, I was never the top top student. But it was something that really came naturally to me in terms of being able to apply myself in certain areas, there are certain areas that I absolutely despised as well, which is probably a interesting contradiction once we maybe progress through my studies.

Andy: 10:38

So what did you lean towards at school? And what did you lean away from?

Peter Coe: 10:44

I think, you know, in science, I definitely probably failed at that point. It was never an area that I was enjoyed with. But numbers. Maths was always a strong suit of mine back in those days. Which, when you look at where we've ended up now, it's probably Yeah, holding true.

Andy: 11:03

Yeah, that's, that's not a huge surprise. What did you despise then? Or you say you hated something? Was that science that you didn't enjoy?

Peter Coe: 11:12

Yes, I couldn't understand it. And just didn't enjoy it at all.

Andy: 11:17

Okay, so but sounds again, like school was a good time for you. And socially? Did you get on okay with the other kids? You said it was a nice community and you enjoyed being there?

Peter Coe: 11:28

Yeah, it was a nice community. I was never the extrovert or that sort of child back in those days, I was always the shy one, but just kept in my own circle of friends. And never was the one loud out and about with everybody. But that taught me good in those days where we stuck together a little core group maybe over a few years and went all the way through from kindergarten right through to Year 12 with a good group

Andy: 11:58

so important to find your group, isn't it when in your school. As you were getting towards the end of school, then what sort of ideas you said you your parents weren't leading you in a direction they were they were very much encouraging you to do what you wanted to do. What were your thoughts as you were coming towards the end of school about what direction to go in and what you might do?

Peter Coe: 12:20

I think I remember at that point, I literally had zero idea of what I wanted to do. And for me, whether it was slight naivety back in those days, not being too worldly, but the concepts of what is an engineer or what is an accountant, for me, was fairly far, and not a point where I would have given a lot of in depth thought to. So

Andy: 12:46

I like to think I'm glad you said that. Peter, sorry to interrupt, but I am glad you said that. Because I like to think that that is a really useful thing for people to hear, especially if they're just coming out of school or university themselves that oh, wait a minute, this guy didn't have a clue what he wanted to do, either. And it is actually a perhaps a relatively small number of people who are blessed with knowing from a very early age, this is absolutely what I want to do. So that's good to know that you knew you weren't sure at all when you left school, if you weren't sure, what did you do? Instead? If you're like, what, what did you do anyway.

Peter Coe: 13:22

And again, I was I was lucky I got fairly good marks at school and probably was presented with some different options but did not choose a traditional path at all, when a lot of other friends and peers at that stage would have been going to the big four accounting firms or the consulting firms. For me that just did not appeal at all. So again, with some encouragement from Mum and Dad said, well do what you enjoy and go and do it. So I found this little course and applied to a Deakin University, one of the larger universities, but not the recognised business schools of those days. And I signed up to a Bachelor of Applied Science in contradiction of my earlier comments. But bachelor of applied science in sports coaching and administration,

Andy: 14:10

okay. So was it the sports coaching side that attracted you, as you pointed out, you know, wait a minute, in year nine, you hated science. Now you're applying to do science as a degree. Tell us how you got your head around that.

Peter Coe: 14:29

So I think the word sport got me and said, this sounds pretty good. Let's go and give that a go. Andy. So at that point, and in hindsight, it was the best decision I've ever made in my life to head down that path. Because what we learned what we taught were taught in the group that we were part of there helped form a lot of thoughts on the ways to engage with people dealing with people around psychology and understanding how to get the best out of people along the way. So, yes, I had to learn to live and deal with the science part. But once you apply it in different way, when we're talking exercise physiology and getting how the body works, for me it just opened up a whole new world that all of a sudden, forget what I learnt and thought about what the world was like in science back in the day for me to go into an area like this, and open up a whole new door, it was literally the best decision I had made at a point without ever realising what I was getting myself into as well at that stage.

Andy: 15:34

right. So your perspective on science changed when you were doing the content of this programme, versus your previous experience with science, you had a different view on it, you could see how it was being applied and in something that you were interested in. Exactly. You knew why you were doing it. Had you done much sport yourself at school?

Peter Coe: 15:56

I did. Yeah. And that was, we talked about enjoyment at school. For me, sport was always part of our life. As soon as long as I can remember, I've always had a ball in my hand playing, whether it be cricket or football. So it's always been a huge part. And for me, that ability just to connect that side of my life, with potentially a professional career out of it as well, that really opened my eyes as to could there be something in this, that could be a path that is not the norm, and not sitting behind a computer at a desk? And it wasn't for that period

Andy: 16:35

Yeah, this is really making me think, Peter, thank you. Because you hear a lot about people later in life, perhaps wistfully thinking, perhaps I should have followed my passion. A lot of my guests would have liked to have done certain things, but because they weren't all encouraged to do what they love. They were encouraged maybe to err on the side of financial security, get yourself a career, maybe the parents lives were influenced by experiences they'd had. And so they're encouraging get yourself as a sensible job, if you like. But then I'm sitting here thinking so you followed your you're encouraged to follow your passion, you loved sport, you saw sport, in the title of this science degree, you went for it, it was great. It changed your relationship with science, you found it a really rewarding valuable degree. But I know now that you're in a corporate world. So I'm curious how then you sort of started out like that, and then, and then gone into a corporate world, a sensible job, you've got into a very sensible job. So let's understand that later. But I'm really glad that you pick that course. And you I'm glad to hear that you picked it. And it had a good experience. And also that there was this, you could see the purpose of the science. Yeah, there was a there was a reason for struggling with the science, it was worth doing.

Peter Coe: 17:56

Yeah. And it's not just the science topic. I harp on that a little bit, but it was understanding people. And we will say I was lucky to do the degree. We had a lecturer for the three years of that degree was one of the leading AFL coaches. So our football league here in Australia, he was a retired coach, the guy called David Parkin, who ever see a video of him, he has the biggest jugular veins in his neck when he talks. You have never met someone who can just encapsulate and capture a room every time he spoke. So I think for three years, the whole class were just captured on every word. And again, that was a huge start as an influence as to what it means to really help shape people on the way and really guide them and change their careers as to what they

Andy: 18:50

Right. So he was a lecturer on your programme, who was a real life AFL coach and a great communicator, by the sounds of things,

Peter Coe: 19:01

the best communicator I've ever come across.

Andy: 19:05

What was it about the way he communicated that captured everyone in the room,

Peter Coe: 19:10

I think it's definitely the aura that he brought, knowing that this guy was a legend in Australia in terms of football, coached all premierships, played in premierships here and was one of the highest standing coaches that have come to there and to have him standing in front of our group of 20 students at Deakin University just that or that he brought with him that just wanted you to hang on every single word he said no matter what he was saying. Right It was just what he brought to the table from that side. But his engagement the way he spoke to people, his ability just to evoke an emotion from the way he spoke is something that I've tried to it you cannot emulate it because it is him and it's his DNA but seeing the impact, it's learning and studying a lot of public speaking from my side, there's elements of that, that you would love to be able to carry through in the way that you hold yourself.

Andy: 20:10

So it sounds like he was a very authentic and passionate about his his field. And he obviously had all the badges he had all the credibility that you could possibly want in someone you were going to listen to give me his name, again, because those of us who are outside Australia might not be as familiar with the AFL so, who give us his name again.

Peter Coe: 20:35

So His name is David Parkin

Andy: 20:37

David Parkin

Peter Coe: 20:37

Probably not, not that well known on the shores of Europe, but in Australia, a legend.

Andy: 20:43

Fantastic. And then also for the Australian listeners, who do you barrack for now?

Peter Coe: 20:50

I am an Essendon Bombers fan in the AFL, which is not David's team that he was involved in. Unfortunately, we're more down the bottom of the ladder.

Andy: 21:00

Okay, well, I just know that it was always a topic of conversation in the office there. So probably some people would have switched off now or

Peter Coe: 21:11

you can't step foot into the offices in Australia without signing your allegiance to a team Andy.

Andy: 21:17

That's right. That's right. So what did he tell you? I'm curious about? Were there any surprises you went into this sports degree? And he's there? Absolutely. Legend, and he's talking to you about what it really means to succeed, I guess, in this field? Was there anything and the might not have been? So don't worry if there wasn't, but was there anything that came out that oh, it's more about this than I possibly imagined? You know, I thought it was about strength and conditioning or and thought about, you know, physiology. But actually, he's spending half his time talking about something else

Peter Coe: 21:52

from a coaching perspective, which was really where he came to his fault, because he'd spent the best part of 20 years leading different teams in the AFL and the VFL. Back at that stage, but for him, and probably subconsciously looking back some of the things that he espoused was, at that stage, he put a lot of time into his players to really see how can he develop them as people outside of the football club? So forget the skills, forget how you kick a ball, but how do we actually develop you as a person and find your strengths, so that you've actually got a career to move on to post football, which this is going back in the 1980s, when he was a real legend in the AFL. That was trailblazing, because at that stage, they were not professional footballers. They were amateurs that had part time jobs, it was slowly moving into professional. So he really set a trail for Australia here in the footballers, in terms of pushing them to think around, what are your strengths that you bring to the table? And how do we help you outside of the world and set you up for success?

Andy: 23:04

You put a huge smile on my face when you said that. So he was looking at them as people first and players second. And he was also looking long term. From their perspective, this is a career that's only going to last you a certain number of years, you need to be a capable individual afterwards to carry on. And it reminded me of Legacy the book about the All Blacks, so different sport rugby union rather than AFL. But there's a there was a realisation they came to that great people make great All Blacks. Hopefully not butchered that too much. But I'm pretty sure it was great people make great All Blacks. And the idea that okay, let's build the person first and the player second.

Peter Coe: 23:55

That's fundamental to it. And it's probably something that I've, as I said, subconsciously, probably taken with me from that around helping to build the people that are within my teams along the way. So that no matter where they want to end up that we can help them develop into where they want to go. Because not always is the place they're at the right place for them. And do

Andy: 24:16

you think by investing in them like that, you get the best out of them when they are with you,

Peter Coe: 24:21

I think we get the best of what they can be in their role where they are. And for me, it just goes to building a level of trust and respect with the people that are working with you. Because they know that end of the day, we're there for them, no matter what that might be. And if we can help them find that right place. And I can think of countless examples along the way where we've been able to do that where we help them out of the business and find them the right home if they're not in the right chair here. So,

Andy: 24:55

yes, yeah, I try not to talk myself too much in the conversations. But I got a coaching client recently, he's very concerned about facing the challenge of having to move people out and being able to explain it and reframe it as you can still put them first as a person and think about what's best for them. And if you've tried all the things that you think you need to try to create an environment where that individual can perform at a high level, and it's still not working, because they're actually in the wrong place, then it's humane and helpful and the right thing to encourage them, help them find the right place for them. So end of mini lecture from me and back to the Peter Coe interview. So Peter, you nailed it, in choosing the right programme, you got exposed to some really great tuition if you like, and role modelling from the leaders on the programme. So we're at this point, were you considering a career in sport

Peter Coe: 26:01

I was in at that stage, it was probably a time when reality then hit because we're probably talking 20 years ago, now, I try and hide my age as to where I'm at now. But at that stage, the level of professionalism to move into full time, sports roles was limited back in those days, it was only just starting to emerge. So I was lucky enough to get some part time. And volunteering type work working with some the Institute of Sport back at my old school as well. So again, not be able to let go went back there and coach some of the football teams and cricket teams to help them out. But reality hit that this world may not be one that can help pay the bills into the future without having that level of professional sport experience behind you. Because at that stage, they are the people that really separated themselves and were able to land the plum gigs, shall I say, how did they get that experience through their own professional sporting careers.

Andy: 26:58

So Right? So they were athletes, they were athletes themselves who

Peter Coe: 27:01

they were In the courses that I was there, we had the top Australian netballers is in there, we had Australian football umpires, so there was a big, professional sport cohort that I came through with. And that for them was a natural progression because they were able to team their professional sport with now the coaching experience that they got academically and move into it but myself not having the professional sport behind me then really was difficult to actually transition into something.

Andy: 27:41

Can you remember when this realisation crystallised for you?

Peter Coe: 27:47

Probably about 12 months into that world where left the degree finished that three years later, was working hospitality jobs back in those days, were doing coaching part time, and again, was trying to knock down plenty of doors to get into whether it be the cricket Association's football and just kept getting rejected all the time. And really, without, with a pretty clear view that to break the mould would be very difficult without having that box ticked of being a professional sports man back in those days.

Andy: 28:20

Right. Right. And

Peter Coe: 28:23

timings everything.

Andy: 28:23

Yeah. And so once you'd had that realisation, what did you resolve to do

Peter Coe: 28:28

resolve to do that, maybe it's best time that I head back to uni, and do probably a sensible thing and get some form of degree behind me that actually might be an easier transition. So I went back and did a Diploma of financial planning, then moved on and did a master of commerce as well. Again, kicking back to probably some of my strengths as a person was very much around the numbers world, understanding how the businesses work. And from there, then it really opened up a whole new world where I could move into the corporate and desk jobs that I was probably desperately trying to avoid in the early days when I left school. But in hindsight, wouldn't have changed a thing now with what I've been able to go through over the last 20 years in the corporate world.

Andy: 29:17

Did you? Yeah, and I'm looking forward to talking about that. Peter, did you at the time that you made that decision? How did you feel about what you just spent a few years doing?

Peter Coe: 29:29

There was not a time I felt I was a failure, or I felt that it was the wrong thing to do? One, because it was the best three years you could ever wish to go through uni living and breathing something like that. But it was a point of time that you look back and think maybe there was a decision there that could have made to go down as you put it the conservative path that would guarantee you a secure job at the end. But for me, I was like well, let's go again. Let's see what else we can actually do now and tackle another path, see what else we can get through and take on another challenge, which really, again, fortunate enough to have that sort of family support around me where they said just go and do it.

Andy: 30:13

Yeah, so it doesn't sound like you were too deflated, it was. Okay. So that's what's happened there really enjoyed the time I was there wouldn't change it for the world. However, I can see now that realistically, the opportunities are for the people who've already got a professional sports background, this is going to be really challenging to break into. So let's have a rethink. Financial planning, obviously quite a bit different. Did you have any interest in in it? Or were you just thinking, Well, I like numbers, you know, I've got an affinity for numbers, this could be the right thing to do. And then business after that, was it? You're still sort of following your strengths? If you like?

Peter Coe: 30:54

Yeah, it was. And when I look back at that degree, that's the sports coaching administration, we did touch on business management and light touch of commerce through there, which sort of opened my eyes that more, that is a world I'm pretty good at. And was something that came easy to me through those phase. So again, look towards something that how do you turn that into a job, and we're a real world, so financial planning came to it. And then really into the world of commerce to add a real strength of my bow, hopefully to then try and get what we call that real job.

Andy: 31:30

Yeah. And then it opened up, you said things once you'd got that things opened up. What did you go into?

Peter Coe: 31:40

I remember those days, because I was doing my masters of commerce back in those days. And that I must have sent off 60 to 70 applications to accounting firms around the place, small or large, to try to get in to this one, get some experience while I'm studying. And I did not even get one response, let alone a no. So it made you sit back and think, hang on. What have I done here? What have I just spent the last couple years trying to do again. And that was the point Andy when you'd say did I think what have I done here? Have I made the complete wrong decision. There was plenty of stages there where I did. Those points when you're working in hospitality, you'll be working 60, 70 hours a week, you're studying full time. It's full on life to try to crack it and try to make something of it. But there was one job advert that finally got back to me. There was literally in a local paper here that I submitted in and through the application, and that was to the world of BMW.

Andy: 32:59

So that was the one that replied.

Peter Coe: 33:03

That was the one that applied. And if I remember it was an internship for settlements and accounts, trainee. And I remember submitting it going settlements, I have no idea what that means. Accounts. Yep, I can tick that box. Let's give it a go. And that was about the thought process that I've put behind the application.

Andy: 33:27

And I can imagine after you've had 59, no responses. Yeah. you're not gonna spend too much thought debating this. Okay. You said quite a bit earlier that, for example, as a child, you didn't know what engineering meant or, you know, what engineers did. And this is, I think, really important and very common that how can younger people possibly know what jobs are like, because they never had, you know, they're lucky they watch their parents do something, they might have an older brother doing something or an uncle or an aunt or something. So they get they get a you know, at least awareness of some things. They see teachers don't they because they're at school and they see you know, people that they see doctors and dentists and other people as they go through their, their childhood. So you set foot then in the settlements area and this was your first real experience of working in an office.

Peter Coe: 34:28

It was That was my first world working there.

Andy: 34:32

So I suppose my point is, you didn't want to choose it. You want it to be in a sports environment. Originally. You've you've moved into the corporate world and loved it since so just talk about your first experience and we know you stayed there a while so I'm guessing it was okay. But yeah, how did it how did it go initially?

Peter Coe: 34:53

If I think back there is one story that sticks in my mind which did make me think, what am I getting myself into here and it was the first interview I had with the recruitment agency back in those days and a name you might be familiar with Karen Easton. Yes. Who has done a lot of recruitment in the word of BMW, but I remember going to her offices over in Collingwood for her recruitment agency and walking up the stairs and sitting down in the waiting room waiting for her and I got given a application form to fill in. And it was asking me, my eye colour, my height, my weight, my interests, and I was like what is this settlement thing I'm signing up for? Not having any idea until I sat down with her and realised that actually no, she does modelling agencies as well as doing recruitment, as

Andy: 35:49

well, you're a handsome guy, Peter could have gone either way.

Peter Coe: 35:52

will never forgive that. But um, so at that stage, I was having my first interview with the finance director at that point, and settlements manager back in those days and being grilled completely around exactly what we've alluded to. I don't have much direction in my life. Why have I ended up here? How can they trust someone to be capable of being a stable employee if I've changed different industries and working hospitality? So I think someone asked those questions of me of a fairly naive 22 year old back in those days, I must have done something right in the way I answered it back in those days, but I remember being pretty dogmatic that I need a chance, this is a path I'm committed to, and I need a chance to show what I could be capable of, again, not even knowing myself what I could be capable of. But being able to open the door and get in and there it landed, I think it was a $20,000 paying job back in those days as an intern, in settlements and accounts,

Andy: 37:09

you had a foot on the on the ladder, as it were.

Peter Coe: 37:14

That's that's all I was looking for

Andy: 37:16

Well, as you say I know Karen, very wonderful woman and great at her job. So I'm liking to think she'd have seen the background you came from and that kind of human being that you are great people make great settlements interns to paraphrase the All Blacks would have had some influence on you getting that first job. So tell us then about your journey through through BMW. And what it was really like being in the

Peter Coe: 37:48

It's very different. And nothing can prepare you for corporate world walking into that world. Where it is literally the four walls and staring at a computer which when you've come from kicking, football round an oval in three years of a degree to then working through literally pulling out manual files from filing cabinets, reviewing them, approving documents, it was a very different world. But one that I quickly found that I'm someone that enjoys a challenge no matter what it is, and will just find a way through and find a way to get it done, which I did. And I think within within three months, I was offered in a full time job, then off the internship. And from there really kick started the career that I'd lived there for just on 18 years.

Andy: 38:41

And I'm thinking it is to have had your office was the sportsground the the oval to your office being a corporate office, thinking about on the face of it you think would that be just so bad? Would that be? Feel It's so awful, if that's what you'd want where you'd wanted to work, and now you've found yourself and I think a lot of people perhaps imagine that it is really awful, but you found it. Okay, you had your work ethic you you wanted to succeed at it. What were some of the surprises in terms of things that you could enjoy in that environment that you would never have been able to imagine for yourself as a as a you know, before that, when you were focused more on the outdoor sports life?

Peter Coe: 39:29

Well, another thing, I think, as a person, I'm pretty adaptable over time and will fit into most environments and find a way to do that. But it was that world of being within a team now. And with back then there's really a team of five that were working together within settlements. And that feeling was very much like a sports team back in those days where you got a pretty clear goal of what you're there to achieve. And that's how to actually make this work together. Knowing that you Everyone comes from very different backgrounds, but you're there for the same purpose to actually try to make a success of what we're dealing with. And that was, I think, for me that ability to take on a challenge deal with anything comes my way, and then find the best way through.

Andy: 40:16

So you were able to apply your strengths in this completely different environment. And you experienced some overlap in terms of team, the feeling of being part of a team, whether it's a sports team, or whether it's a settlements team, that feeling of being in a team is the same

Peter Coe: 40:33

there is, and that bigger organisation too. And, again, I've been privileged to have some pretty special leaders along the way that you can see that ability to move whole company of people in a certain direction, it's inspiring to be part of something like that.

Andy: 40:51

Let's talk about some of those people. Not don't mention names, unless it's a, I think with the way that the policy or philosophy we have on Career-view Mirror is that if you're going to be grateful for someone or celebrate them as a leader, then by all means mention their name. If it's someone you learned how not to do the job from watching them, they can remain anonymous

Peter Coe: 41:17

I'll write it on a piece of paper for you

Andy: 41:22

But that's the Yeah, that's the approach we take. So by all means, celebrate great leadership you've experienced, but what are some of the, you know, conceptually, as well as personally, what are some of the things that you learnt from those people.

Peter Coe: 41:36

And Andy, looking back through the honour roll that you've had here in the Career-view, Mirror sessions, a lot of those leaders that I've had the privilege of working under, and with are here, so I'm not reticent of talking some of the names, especially because they really shaped not just me, but a lot of people out there in terms of how best to one lead an organisation that take care of people. Fundamentally, that's that's what it's about, for the likes of Alan Crookes, who I know quite a few have spoken about. But his leadership was completely embedded in the number one driver of taking care and looking after everybody that worked there as a family, and how do you get the best out of everybody? And no matter what came in our way, and what business problem came across our desk, are we taking care of every individual that's here, that that's something that not just myself, as I say, but a lot of others, I think would feel that, and probably have shaped their careers along the way. And it's definitely something that sits with me in every role that I've had along my journey. And probably shaped some of the decisions that I've had to make along the way as well as to where I might have ended up now.

Andy: 42:58

I'm wondering if you could the difference between reading that in a book, or hearing it on a podcast, and actually having the opportunity to live in an organisation that is led that way

Peter Coe: 43:11

that if I can give you an example, I remember vividly back in the GFC. So we're probably back to I dunno, 2009, again I feel pretty young in the organisation only been there a few years but vividly remember, Alan at leadership team inviting the company which fairly small back in those days into the boardroom, and Alan announcing that we will do whatever it takes to make sure everyone has a role going forward. When every other organisation around the place would have been doing whatever they can to cut costs, save money, and usually moving people on. And the chessboard analogy which still sticks vividly in the memory, but how do we find a role to for everybody to actually one get us through this. But position at the head he actually gained some skills that you might not have got to yesterday in a new world that is being forced upon us. But let's make the best of that situation and take care of every individual on that path. And it's something that sticks with me today. And you can remember standing there as if it was yesterday.

Andy: 44:26

How did that approach which was so different from what other organisations were doing? What ongoing impact did that have on the people in the team?

Peter Coe: 44:37

When you talk how do you gain trust? How do you gain respect within teams, but with individuals, making decisions like that where actions talk so much louder than words, it really created a culture that was as strong as you could possibly imagine within a group and hearing some of the fellow speakers you've had on the show Andy, I think they've also echoed, echoed around, it was a family and it had that feeling because everyone was prepared to take care of each other. And you felt that. And when you have leaders, leading an organisation making decisions like that, it makes you want to do whatever is possible and whatever it takes to actually make a success, because knowing that someone's got your back. So let's make sure that we can help each other out as well.

Andy: 45:29

Nicely said, Thank you, I'm conscious that Simon Sinek talks about how wrong it is that, particularly in the US, they have a culture of laying people off, you know, almost on a quarterly basis, sort of if they need to, for the numbers, I think he'd have really appreciated or he would, and Alan's behaviour predated that, but you know, he would have seen it as a very good case study for valuing the people. Definitely. So what are the so you've once you've lived through that, I imagine that is deeply ingrained in your behaviour now, as a leader, what are the characteristics did you pick up from the various leaders that you mentioned that you didn't mention them yet, but you said there were a number of leaders that you learnt from

Peter Coe: 46:18

one other leader and again, more than happy to mention his name because, one, he probably doesn't know it, because it's not a conversation we've had. And I would have only had probably two to three months working under this person but Leopold Visser stepped was our CFO of BMW in Australia, only for probably a short period, back like 2010, if my memory serves me correct,

Andy: 46:47

shorter than he'd have liked, I seem to recall from his

Peter Coe: 46:50

Yes, most definitely. But long enough to make an episode impact on a lot of people in just the way that he carries himself. And when you talk about a leader that's bullish, to the nth degree to challenge the norm, and push people to their limits, but in a good way to throw them a challenge without a second thought is to just go and do it, see how you go. He's that sort of person that is within me still as to how do I try to push some of my teams and, again, don't micromanage, get out of the detail. And just trust that people one, you've got the right people there to do the job, and trust that they can do it and let them run. And he was brilliant at that. And he was the one that really challenged me by giving me some opportunities fairly senior within the organisation without a second thought at all,

Andy: 47:50

when you were watching you reflect on those times was really enjoyable for me just now they're clearly very important memories for you. And also gave me the idea that of almost channelling being able to channel. You know, perhaps you find yourself in situation and you think well, what would Leopold, how would Leopold tackle this? How would Alan tackle this, that idea of Yeah, trying to carry those leaders in you, and be able to channel them from time to time when you when you want to.

Peter Coe: 48:28

And that's if you can be a sponge and take as much as you can from certain people that for me is the best way to be and doesn't always sink in, but there are moments like that, that there are just so vivid stick in your memory that when you are faced in certain situations, memories like that come flooding through as to how do we actually best deal with what we're faced with? And it shaped definitely some of my decisions later in my career is to am I in the right place, given some of the decisions we are making, and ultimately sort of ended up to where I am now as well

Andy: 49:09

Thank you, Peter. He wasn't there for very long then, so three month period, say had enough of an impact to stay with you forever. And the bit I'd also like to just point out is that even though he pushed you harder than you'd been pushed before, if you like or stretched you or gave you opportunities that you hadn't had before you view that highly positively because of the way he did it. So sometimes we might think we shouldn't push that hard or we, you know, we don't to make this person too uncomfortable. But if it's done right, you've really have no second thoughts about it.

Peter Coe: 49:49

Again, he was as authentic as you could get. So it doesn't work if that person doesn't come from an authentic or genuine place and you feel that they're doing it for their own motive for their own benefit, rather than actually trying to do if for the best person as well.

Andy: 50:04

Right? So you had the sense it was being done for you, for your benefit, as well as the organisation.

Peter Coe: 50:10

Yeah, definitely

Andy: 50:12

thinking about your you spent 18 years at BMW, Peter, through a number of roles. So what are some of the big memories you have of that or that the key points, the transitions, how you came to get certain roles, the thought behind it,

Peter Coe: 50:27

I must say, apart from probably the first two roles, which was when I joined the organisation in settlements, I remember about 18 months on, I was starting to get itchy feet and being actually, I'm almost finished my master's degree. And I move towards something a bit closer than that as well. So I remember knocking down our CFOs door at that stage going, is you're able to apply the learning that you were doing at there any opportunity to move into something a bit closer, whatever that might be one of the finance team's, one of the accounting teams, whatever it might be. And timing is everything, at some stages where luckily enough, literally, probably the next day, they were movements a plenty, and I was fortunate enough then to move into our controlling team. And that opened up a whole new world as to the studies that I had been doing in commerce, than that uniqueness that you don't get when you're going through university where what you're studying one day, you're actually getting to apply the next day, strange concept, when it actually makes the glue come together to realise, ah, this is what it means when I read the chequebook yesterday when you actually seeing it or living it every day, that was the best decision to be able to move into a role like that, where all of a sudden, that business world started to click, university, you are and looking back if if you could take a different path from those days, that ability to work in a field and study the field at the same time, for me would be a no brainer, if you could have that opportunity. Because it just accelerates that path to learn in no time.

Andy: 52:13

Yeah, and a lot of my German well not a lot but some of my German guests had the benefit of going through a process where they were studying and working at the same time. It does make a lot of sense, doesn't it? What I also noticed from what you describe that part of your journey, Peter was that you were you took charge you were thinking itch feet, got my Master's nearly done need to be doing something with this now and you I think the word you banged down the door of the CFO, that was the phrase you used, which I think is great. It conjures up the level of self motivation, self determination that you had. How important do you think that is for someone pursuing a career even within an organisation, you know, a very structured formal organisation? How important do you think that level of ownership of your career path is?

Peter Coe: 53:04

It's huge. And again, I was a very shy person, even at that age, even early 20s, I was not someone that was very outspoken. So for me to even do that, thinking back, it must be just been one of those moments where you feel like I've just got to do it, I've just got to do it. Otherwise, I'll never do it. And I did it. And I was like, Maybe I should do this more often, yeah just taking that risk taking the chance to do something like that. It's just sometimes it works out

Andy: 53:37

I'm just picturing this very shy, retiring, Peter, you know, clenching your fists outside the office a bit like the character in Back to the Future, is it Marty's dad, getting all worked up, and then bursting into the CFOs office and shouting at him, you know, I need a better job. I'm sure it wasn't like, I just entertain myself, sometimes. Little videos in my head of what might be going on but, but it worked and there were opportunities. But you definitely think you need it's important to take control.

Peter Coe: 54:19

It is and even teams that are leading now. And just moving to a new organisation in the last six weeks seeing a different group of people who might not be that wired, and not be led that way that it's a foreign concept that's for certain people for sure in terms of taking control and really forging What do you want to do with it? But not everyone knows. So if you can find some of the connections to hold their hand and help them along the way. Everyone's a little bit different as to how they find that way.

Andy: 54:51

Yeah, not everybody knows. There are certain things that you need to Well, it certainly helps to know because whether it's right wrong or how you think things should be, this is the way organisations work. And it's an awful, you've got a lot better chance of navigating your way through, if you have learned these things and internalise them. So I'm imagining this is a great opportunity for people who report to you or in your organisation to listen to this conversation and really get the measure of what you care about and how you see the world. And there could well be a queue of people outside your office the day after this so we'll see but no, I think it's really great, great stuff that you're sharing there. What other highlights? Or what other transitions? So that was how you got into controlling? How did you What was your next transition? And how did that come about?

Peter Coe: 55:52

At that stage I was lucky enough to work with the current CEO of the Australian business, a lady that's been there now for best part of 20 years as well. She was a big part of my career sort of growing up, challenging me with a lot of technical understanding as to how to build and what's needed in the world of BMW to actually grow there. But for me, at that stage, I found my niche had found an area where I fitted in well and enjoyed that ability of understanding how business really works, understanding those levers that makes it tick. And really, I was just fortunate enough from there to be in the right place at the right time and have done enough work along the way where then some more opportunities were provided to me. Talking about Leopold, He then threw me the challenge after stepped into a management role probably for about two or three years, he threw me the challenge to step into Chief Risk Officer role at the age of 30 that would have been back then. Wow. which in hindsight, was a big step. But one that I wanted to grab with both hands and see, how do we actually really create something back at that stage? Because that world of risk was very, in its infancy in our world. So it was how do we actually build something from scratch here and make it something that can really hold the company in good stead in the long run?

Andy: 57:20

Yeah, you talk about learning what BMW needed and that the current CEO who was around then had helped you with that, how important do you think it is in an organisation to know that? Sorry this is this question is, sounded like such a leading question because what I'm thinking is, it's another I think it's another one of those pillars that you talked about people finding out things. So for me, one of the key ones that you've already mentioned is this idea of owning your career. Realising that you're in the phrase I use is treat the organisation like a marketplace. Imagine BMW or whatever organisation corporate entity you're in, treat it like a marketplace. And it's your you've got your market stall, if you like, it's your responsibility to understand what value you bring. So you need to have the self awareness, you need to know what your skills are, what your strengths are, how you add value. But then coming on to the point you made about understanding what what the business how the business works, and what the business needs. that's those are your customers in this marketplace analogy. So let's talk a little bit about what did it mean, understanding what the business needed, and so that you can then add value can't you you can then contribute only when you know what they need can you sell your services as an employee to them

Peter Coe: 58:43

Yeah, and I must admit, what's running through my mind now is growing up and throughout my whole life, I adhere to the principle that what you know will get you a long way in this world. And it's work hard, prove yourself in what you're capable of. And that will take you wherever you want to go. But I think then the naive part of me in a world like BMW, which doesn't always work that way, that that other side of the equation where it's who you know, as well, probably then, at that stage really only started to come to the fore that to actually forge a career in this sort of world, you do need to actually think about building your right networks, building the people around you, which, in some way, shape or form I'd been doing unconsciously along the way, where building and gathering some of those supporters. But it was probably at that point when I got on the plane to Munich for the first time to see the big bad world that is headquarters of a corporate organisation, the different world that it is there where all of a sudden, that balance of getting it right between what you know and who you know, was very critical then at that stage to get that right because you can easily get it wrong either way, focusing on who you know more, or what, you know. So that balance for me is critical.

Andy: 1:00:09

I think that's really valuable to share, Peter and I don't think it's a BMW, I think it's, it's, it's prevalent everywhere. And I think it's also very common for people to think what I know, and what I can do, that's what's gonna get me to where I want to get to. And we even heard in the interview with Eric Ebner von Eschenbach recently how when he, he wasn't in BMW, he was working for a German bank, working for them in New York, and been told that when a senior position came up in the headquarters, back in Germany, that would be his, got his head down, didn't bother going back to Germany as often as his colleague did, thought that was a waste of time. When the position came up, the colleague got the job. And he got in touch with the with the hiring manager and said you told me that job was mine. And he said oh sorry, I'd forgotten about you. And it wasn't malicious. It was just what you know, you weren't in my face. So it can be really frustrating I think because people I coach get very frustrated about this isn't fair, if I do good work, I should, you know, the organisation should, should manage my career. Fine. If you want to think like that, fine. If you want to get on, forget that. Take Charge. See yourself as a as a salesperson in a marketplace, work out what your value is, work out what the organisation needs, and go and make sure that the people, people who need to know what you can do, and who have the problems that you can solve, know that you exist and that you're there. That you were in a customer facing role from age six, we understand. How did that do you think affect the way you were in once you became, you know, corporate citizen?

Peter Coe: 1:02:03

Yeah. It is who you are. Things like that you can't take out of a person as much as the world might try at certain times to bash people down. But for me, it's who I am. And, Andy we're looking at each other here but there's the smile is usually on my face. There's not many, many a time when it's not. Because really, that carries you a long way. And if it is who you are, then make it be who you are in whatever situation. Because you can often get caught up in a lot of stressful situations, especially in the world of corporate world. But staying true to that making light of situations at times and having fun, but realising that there's times when you need to be serious, but never forget who you are as well. So for me, that element of smiling, having fun, thankfully, comes natural to me. But it's critical and important. So try to impress that on others as well, so that they can hopefully feel a bit of that energy come from you at certain times too.

Andy: 1:03:09

So we know you as someone who was deliberate about your career, you're intentional about the the work that you did, the conversations you had, you took charge of your, your path and you found yourself perhaps a little bit earlier than you'd anticipated chief risk officer for BMW Financial Services thanks to Leopold's leadership and faith in trust in you, you know, offering you that and you grasped it with both hands. Was that your final role in in BMW that role? Or did you have other moves.

Peter Coe: 1:03:51

So I was in that CRO role for the best part of three to four years and, and faced with some cross points at that stage as well or leading up to that around the world of BMW and Andy, you've lifted yourself as others have that the decision point around going international, and making that leap of jumping on the merry go round, as I often plugged, determined to try to chase that higher ambition around progressing within the leadership ranks. There was a certain point where it might have been an opportunity to move to other places, but for me, I never harnessed that ambition strong enough to want to leave behind my family here and my base here in Australia, and that for me, that pull was never enough, because I'd seen many go and not enjoy it and never be able to get back either when they wanted to, to the world of Australia. So for me that never was attractive enough to want to really chase that dream. And Kim, thankfully was enough lucky enough to have some support here. And the leaders in Australia that then through different challenges let me to move sideways within the organisation, which I know some people questioned, why would I want to move into a sideways role when they would be thinking I should move, leave and chase higher roles in other organisations. But for me, the environment that we had at BMW was one that I loved and wanted to stay at. So it was a pretty easy decision. At that stage when I was given the opportunities to shift out of risk into the Head of Sales and Marketing at that stage was my next natural transition.

Andy: 1:05:39

Okay, so many things in there that I just want to just want to touch on before we I definitely want to know how you got on as chief sales and marketing officer from being chief risk officer, because those two things are kind of if we're on a very simple level, you might think, Oh, they're kind of opposites. But of course, they're not because serious sales and marketing officers are very cognizant of the risks of the deals that they're buying. They're not just driven by numbers. So before we go to that bit, what I'm loving this idea that we heard what a wonderful family you've got wonderful, wonderful upbringing you had, and the consistency of it, and the 18 years in the same school and moving within a sort of 20 mile radius, or something staying close to Melbourne for your whole life, which was a massive positive in, in getting you to where you to be become the person that you are, and gave you a lot of joy on the way and then how that understandably has an effect when you're thinking about do I want to strive for the next rank, if you like or progression in the organisation that's going to require me to move overseas? Very much, I think that can be the driver that Okay, so if I want to get on I need to go overseas, that's a box ticking exercise, sometimes seen as you know, you need to go abroad, and then you can come back and then you can be promoted and blah, blah, blah. But interesting that you thought no, I don't actually want to leave Australia to do that. This is too good. I'm very happy here. Don't need it enough. Ambition isn't enough for that thing. I think there is another side to that international piece, which is about the personal growth that happens. So what can start out as at Oh, yes, I need to do this, I need to tick this box to get the grade, you might overlook it's going to be a massive personal growth opportunity. You make a very good point, though, that I think people have to consider is the size of their organisation they're leaving and the reality of is there going to be a job that I can come back to? Or am I going to get stuck out there on the merry go round as you put it? And I think the merry go round isn't a bad place to be if that's what you like, but very important. Yeah. Am I gonna be able to get back? Am I gonna get back in the right sort of role? So very good to share that thank you very much, because it's not all straightforward that if you get the opportunity, you should go. So talk to me about becoming Chief Sales and Marketing Officer.

Peter Coe: 1:08:15

My first response when CEO at this stage, invited me into her office to say, got a challenge for you. I'd like you to take on the head of sales and marketing role. I think it probably took me half a second to say no thanks.

Andy: 1:08:34

Was there anything else was there anything else you wanted to talk about?

Peter Coe: 1:08:38

Exactly. And rightly so she said, maybe take more than half a second to think about it first. Which I did. And actually the CEO May Wong I spoke about before she was leaving New Zealand at that stage. And May actually asked me to come over to New Zealand and help with some of the strategy work with the New Zealand Company to actually develop that with her. And it was over dinner at one stage of a day where I said to her there's a funny thing happened yesterday. So I was asked to take on sales and marketing from risk. And I remember the puzzled look on her face an she sauid why wouldn't you? And again, it was very similar vein as to Leopold's thoughts that don't think about it. Just take the challenge on and to your words Andy around that personal growth. For me, that's how I've been able to attain it feel like every day is a new challenge for me because I've been lucky enough to have those different roles in completely different worlds thrown at me and need to find a way how to make it work. So when I got back on the plane back to Australia, I said, Let's do it. And there it rolled.

Andy: 1:09:51

That's great. That's great that you saw it in that way. Saw it is an opportunity, a personal growth opportunity and these sideways moves or investment moves as we've christened them or one of my guests christened them on this show quite prevalent in the career stories of the leaders who I interview, it's not uncommon for people to broaden their experience and invest in themselves by moving sideways and getting some more experience and broadening their network and getting a more holistic view of the organisation and all those good things. Was it really difficult to do the sales role, or less difficult than you thought? What, what happened

Peter Coe: 1:10:28

less difficult than I thought, it's a good way to put it, but it took a bit of time to get there. Again, coming back to naturally who I was, I'm not that extroverted salesperson who would stand up there and just say what we're going to be and what we're going to do, I take a very different approach to my relationships, building very much one on one very much developing those relationships with people. And that's how I set about doing it. But as a company, it was at a stage where we were faced with some pretty serious challenges as a business. So to be the face of the organisation in sales and marketing that stage where we were the ones standing in front of the whole dealer network, who trying to find the right word to describe it that can be like a times, but when you're faced with entrepreneurs that are owning their business and have that at risk, given the way that things were happening to our business at that stage. It was the toughest challenge that I had faced through my career. One, because it made me grow as a person and to find how to actually need to deal with situations like this when I thought it was not natural to me. But as finding a way to actually my way can work, you can find a way you don't need to be that stereotype all the time. As long as you find a way that works for you, and shows who you are, and I think in hindsight can hold you in good stead. But it wasn't a long term game. For me, that was never a I could not be still sitting here in a sales role today. But all the better for it, in hindsight,

Andy: 1:12:08

very good. So it was a chessboard move, as you alluded to earlier. I just love what you said there, Peter, starting from the point of when you went into it your your your impression of you know how you describe what you are not you said I'm not the sort of guy can stand up there and espouse what we're going to do. And you know, your more considered and One to One conversations, and I was going to say but you already, you went on to say it isn't interesting how there's this stereotype of what a salesperson is. And that's kind of unhelpful, and it's more helpful to think, okay, sales is a role that needs to be done. I'm going to do it my way, I'm going to the Peter Coe way, which is about being very approachable, very authentic, very genuine, very honest, very thoughtful, very considered respectful, customer focus. That's how I'm going to be the CSMO. And guess what, it succeeded because you are authentic and genuine and good, you know, highly capable individual. And I think it's, that's very often to think, Okay, I'm going for that job, I need to turn myself into, into that right into that character that doesn't No, no, no, you need to be yourself as much as you can. And go and do that job as yourself. So I think that's a really good point. Thank you for for bringing that up. But you but you admitted you wouldn't want to stay there forever. That wasn't you hadn't found your new happy place. You recognised you are learning.

Peter Coe: 1:13:48

It was it's it was everyone always asked me what was my most enjoyable role there. And that was because the relationships you can build in a roll like that you some of you still have today, because of what you've gone through what you've been able to build. And you wouldn't change it. It's just another step towards building who you are. Just the I always viewed it.

Andy: 1:14:11

Yeah, if I was a dealer, and you were the guy from the bank coming to see me, I would, I'd appreciate that. I'd feel I was talking to somebody who I could engage with and who was, you know, sensible and understood, and so on. So what came from after that?

Peter Coe: 1:14:29

Now you're racking my brain, because I shouldn't need to have the timeline in front of me. But I do remember, the name May Wong's popped up a few times, but it's been pretty consistent through my career. May made her way back to the shores of Australia into lead the operations team and at that stage, we needed to undergo some pretty serious transformation in the operations world. That was how we'd set up the business. So May asked me to come and join her to take on some of the projects in the operations team, which coincidentally was unwinding a lot of the work we had done 10 years previous by building up a regional services centre in Australia. Now the time was we need to unwind it and put it back. So I joined forces with May again at that stage and really have someone they can trust there as a leader and as a manager back then to actually get on do the work, and actually work together actually executed pretty hard task at that stage.

Andy: 1:15:30

So she needed somebody she could trust to do that.

Peter Coe: 1:15:35

Yeah, and for us to join back together. Again, it wasn't difficult choice given coming out of the sales world from where it was. But for me, it was taking a brand new challenge there where we could see what needed to get done. And that it was going to be a big challenge for a few years ahead. And to be able to work alongside someone like that you do have that trust and know each other's capabilities pretty inside out, that was a good fit for me to be able to then step into assisting that part of the business.

Andy: 1:16:05

That makes me think, going back to the team analogy, how important it is the people you work with, and the people who you're on a team with can make such a difference to your experience of your job. And that was clearly

Peter Coe: 1:16:19

That's all it is. Business is people.

Andy: 1:16:23

Where does that bring us to in terms of once you'd completed that? Where are we at sort of timewise, what year are we in now?

Peter Coe: 1:16:32

Yeah, so this was leading into early 2019, 2020, we were leading into so been with the organisation about 15 years at that stage and started seeing the same problems that we probably have been dealing with at that stage, that cyclical fact that comes around when you're in your organisation for a certain period of time, and but it was really through this phase that probably my mind started to wonder around what is next for me is the next challenge here is it time that I look further abroad. And because at this stage, there's a lot of decisions that we were making as a business that started to really go against some of those early learnings that I'd mentioned around Alan and making sure that we took care of the people and would do anything possible. There were stages there where we were not able to. And we went through a whole phase of restructures that I had to lead and be involved in as a leader at that stage. So that they challenged me as a person as to something that potentially now starts to grate against your values and having to do it one, we had to do it as a business because the decisions and directions were made to go down this path, but it starts to feel like maybe it's time to actually look to a broader field, that might be a better fit for me in

Andy: 1:18:04

And once you'd come to that conclusion, what did you the future. do? What steps did you take?

Peter Coe: 1:18:11

So I took on a new role with BMW at that point. But again, that was the final piece of the puzzle then when we had to execute my final outsourcing project at that stage, which again, having that experience with May, where we knew we could do a job, we needed to execute this. So that was the last couple of years in my time at BMW where we outsourced our customer service centres to an offshore provider, albeit during the middle of COVID, as well. So to do all the interactions with the providers, but the hardest ones were having to have those conversations with individuals and teams, to let them know of the decisions of the impact that we're going to have on their lives. For me, that was almost the final straw. I think it's about time, it's me as a person to look at one just take a break, which is what I did at that stage. Literally woke up one morning, almost 12 months to the day now and said, I think it's time. So at that stage, I made the call to my boss so May at that stage to say, I think I feel it's the right time for me to step away. We've done the hard work to get it in the state that needs to be time to hand the keys to someone else now to take it forward.

Andy: 1:19:35

Yeah, it sounds compared to some of the periods in the story, it sounds like that was a difficult phase for you,

Peter Coe: 1:19:44

It was and when you value and put so much time into investing in people which a lot of had along the way. And Andy, you've been one of those leaders within BMW along with the Peter Dry, a name you mentioned too where there are certain leaders like that who invest a lot of time into developing individuals personally. It is when you when you're faced with having to make those decisions and then have those conversations. It's demoralising to use a word where you feel you can't help any longer, that person

Andy: 1:20:21

once you'd made that decision, how did you feel after 18 years? wake up one morning and decide this is it? And then put that in, put that into action? Can you remember how you felt then

Peter Coe: 1:20:37

I think I got about three words out, when I did call my leader at that time, before then started blabbering in tears at that point. And for me, that was the sign that it's been built up within me for a little while having to go through gone through that. No, I think this is a sign that it's the right decision for me as a person.

Andy: 1:21:01

So very emotive

Peter Coe: 1:21:02

I needed that release. It was the hardest one looking back that I've had to make to date.

Andy: 1:21:10

And how long, just talk me through the sort of weeks and months subsequent to that and how you got over it and moved on.

Peter Coe: 1:21:22

Yeah, it was, it was an emotional time I must admit, having been at an organisation for so long, having formed so many friendships along the way, as well. And it being the only place, you know, not having worked in another corporate organisation at that stage. And you do have doubts as a person you do think along the way, because it was three months from that decision until the time I left the organisation. So fairly protracted period as well to keep the balls in the air and make sure that we still keep moving forward and support the business because that is me as a person as well, would never and did never just try and drop the keys to someone else and said, it's yours, good luck. I wanted to make sure that we could hand it over and make sure that the team I had in place were more than capable to take it forward. But there was many days where you do question Have I made the right decision that I did just keep looking back to that moment when I did make that call, just that release of stress release of pressure that you can quite easily hide and should at times. But when it comes out in such a wave like that, it's clear that it was the right decision at the end of the day. So an emotional few months to get through until the end. But then walking out that door for the last time handing the keys back of the car as well for last time. It's a big moment for a lot of people as well. But it was a whole new world that opened up to me that I to be honest would never have thought would have existed when you're within the walls of the organisation for so long.

Andy: 1:23:06

Let's talk about that. So what what opened up for you what were some of the you weren't, it doesn't sound like you, you didn't leave because you're offered another job. You've explained the reasons you left. So it wasn't that there was something lined up already. So you you said you're gonna leave you worked out your notice period, you had some wobbles, have I done the right thing. But then you reflected no the release of emotion when I made the decision, clearly I'm doing the right thing. So stick to the plan. And then you walk out on the last day you give the keys back yet another emotional moment. But I have discovered they do sell the cars out in the marketplace. You can go and buy one. Yeah, they're available, you don't have to work there.

Peter Coe: 1:23:49

Quickly found that out, yeah

Andy: 1:23:53

So when it then came to turning your attention to what am I going to do next? Let's talk about that.

Peter Coe: 1:24:00

It probably was a bit longer than I probably would have anticipated before my mind did start to turn to what's next. And it was just this that pure release of not needing to get on and turn the computer on at eight o'clock in the morning and worry about the emails. It's a very strange feeling when you open your emails and there's nothing there. That the very foreign concept that it was very hard to adjust to and you keep searching for it, keep looking for contacts and it's like where's that gone. But

Andy: 1:24:34

I think we should just pause there and just for people who are it's because one of my clients said to me the other day, I have resigned myself I will never have inbox zero. And that is the most I think that's the reality for most leaders in corporate organisations. Once you're outside and you keep hitting refresh is that anything Oh Maybe I have a look in my spam folder for a bit. It is a different challenge not having any anything to come in that, you know, when you're in a corporate environment, the jobs just come at you don't they just turn up switch on the laptop. Whoa, there's some stuff to do. You found yourself with inbox zero.

Peter Coe: 1:25:21

yes, I think, thankfully, timing wise it was over Christmas. So it became a bit easier just to adjust into the more relaxed lifestyle at that stage. So timing wise probably couldn't have been better to slide into their life. But that probably lasted all of a few weeks before I started thinking Hang on, I'm getting a bit bored here. So then we jumped into fully renovating the house. So changing it from top to bottom, ripping things out. So that kept me busy here for a few months. And, again, being able to be on the other side of the fence where I could be taxi for mom and dad to be able to take them around and repay some of what they had been able to do for me back in my early life was nice. So it was it was a hard adjustment, difficult adjustment. But an easy one, once you realise that there is more to life than pure corporate and chasing what's next in that world, which is something I never thought I would say or would enjoy. But that feeling of just being in control of your world for a change where it's not dictated to buy your next team I was coming through. It was a nice change. But it was almost seven months, where I was let's call it unemployed for want of a better term as they say, but it was at that point where I thought, You know what, now's the time to go and do something that I want to do. And to have that feeling and that ability to explore something that one, in hindsight, I probably always wanted to do, and never got the chance to or made a different decision to. For me, it was my time now to go and chase a passion, which is where I come back to square one, the world of sport the world that I ended up starting in, I started then knocking on a couple of doors of one was our the AFL which is the Australian Football League here, which was an opportunity that was almost close to getting but not the right fit for me or the organisation. And then coincidentally, he was able to put me in touch with a private golf club here in Melbourne, which for me love playing golf, but it was a brand new role that was new to the whole golf industry here, which was to be the head of customer experience for the Sandhurst Club, which is a private residential and golfing estate. We've got 36 holes of golf 1300 homes, and it was a brand new role where they wanted to challenge the norm and challenge the industry. That how do we how do they bring the corporate thinking and that structure to the world of a club environment and help them develop them build a level of experience within a club, which is where I am at now. So to look at the world, look out my window and see everyone playing golf and be able to step out there and have a hit as well, it could be worst places in the world to be working right now Andy

Andy: 1:28:29

What a happy ending to this episode. That is awesome. I can just imagine people listening to this. And yeah, just sort of shaking their heads and thinking my goodness, just look what he did there. Didn't see that coming. So well done, Peter, well done. Oh, god, it's so lovely that it started off with sport and ends with sport.

Peter Coe: 1:28:56

Like we almost planned this Andy

Andy: 1:28:58

I had no idea as well, because I wasn't sure what you were doing today. So I was on the edge of my seat wondering where we were What have you done so fantastic. And you're bringing all of your obviously your original sporting passion, but your corporate skills and experience to bear in a completely different environment.

Peter Coe: 1:29:23

It is yeah. And as of yesterday, I've also been throw the challenge of taking on the finance function as well within the organisation there. So things change very quickly in non corporate worlds, shall we say? But again, it's being in an environment now that's you can be agile, you can make a decision and get it done the same day. It's a refreshing change, a hard change to get used to I must admit when you're so ingrained in the governance of corporate organisations of making decisions in a certain way and navigating that landscape that is The political world at this point, it's a different set of skills that's needed a different mindset that's needed to then step into a world where you can challenge the norm and and change it that same day as well.

Andy: 1:30:12

I'm sure embracing that agile world that you've now entered. But you said it's opened up doors to things that you couldn't beyond your wildest sort of imagination. It sounds good, it makes sense hearing what you're doing. Is there anything I haven't asked you, Peter that I've missed out on another great story or golden nugget for my listeners?

Peter Coe: 1:30:36

No, but I must admit, there's probably a couple of words ringing in my ears right now, having listened to again some of your illustrious colleagues you've had on here, that probably has held true. And my motto, shall I say, in terms of the way that I have stepped into definitely this new role, but times over there. But the great man Ed Eppley, who, again, we were fortunate enough in the world of BMW to have had the privilege of being invested in and having the opportunity to work with someone like that who's such a charismatic leader of people as well. But his words around what the role of a leader is to produce results and grow people. I always like to say it, I'd say it's to grow people to produce results.

Andy: 1:31:27

What a wonderful, wonderful note to end on. And yeah, and the way you get the balance, it's no grow people to produce results. And yeah, and Ed does listen, he does listen to these episodes, so he will hear you see, right, yeah, he must hear so many people repeating back to him the things he's taught them over the years. So and rightly so. So we end, we end with that reference to a legend.

Peter Coe: 1:31:59

We do. And thank you, Andy.

Andy: 1:32:01

Thank you, Peter, for joining me, it's been an absolute pleasure, thank you for sharing your story, as we found so many insights along the way. And I wish you all the very best in your exciting new environment with your new role.

Peter Coe: 1:32:17

Thank you Andy and I must thank you for the invitation. As I said to have the chance to talk with you, especially given the leaders that you have spoken about I don't feel that I should be here discussing my career with you given some of those that have come before me. But thank you for letting me share some of my ideas as well with you

Andy: 1:32:37

such humility, such humility, Peter, the level five leaders that Jim Collins writes about, that came into my head when we were talking when you were saying earlier about the impression of what a sales guy looks like. And you said, you're more introverted, more quiet. And those level five leadership traits of that reminded me of that, so. Very good. Thank you, again, really been really wonderful. And look forward to our next conversation.

Peter Coe: 1:33:07

Absolute pleasure. Thank you, Andy.

Andy: 1:33:13

You've been listening to Career-view Mirror with me, Andy follows. I hope you found some helpful points to reflect on in Peters story that can help you with your own career journey, or that of those you lead, parent or mentor. You are unique. And during my conversation with Peter, you'll have picked up on topics that resonate with you. A few things that stood out for me were his work ethic, which was derived from getting up at 3am to work alongside his dad in the newsagent, the great family background he enjoyed with encouragement to do what he wanted to do. And that led to a degree in sports science. And those were really happy years for him. But they were followed by the realisation that the folk getting the jobs in sport, were the ones who were already in sport. So he decided to go back into education, and study financial planning and commerce, and then making 60 to 70 applications without a reply. And finally, one reply coming through from BMW that was enough to lead to an 18 year career, him taking ownership of his own journey, learning from the leaders around him and from the environments that he was in the investment move he made from Chief Risk Officer to Chief Sales and Marketing Officer. The importance of working with people who trust each other, and the joy that can bring and the level of effectiveness that comes with it. And finally deciding to Move on After 18 years and the wonderful reveal that he's now in a sporting environment using all the experience and capability he's developed in his new role. You can contact Peter via LinkedIn, and we'll put a link in the show notes to this episode. We publish these episodes to celebrate my guests careers, listen to their stories, and learn from their experiences. And I'm genuinely interested in what resonated with you. Thank you to all of you for sharing your feedback. Thanks also to Hannah and Julia, who as part of the Career-view Mirror team here at Aquilae, work so hard to deliver these episodes to you. This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by Aquilae. Aquilae's mission is to enable Fulfilling Performance in the mobility industry. We use our very own Fulfilling Performance Paradigm to identify what steps you need to take to enable Fulfilling Performance in your business. We leverage our Aquilae consulting arm for business topics, and the Aquilae Academy for people topics. And once we agreed on the way forward, we work alongside you and your teams to enable Fulfilling Performance and achieve your goals. I explain Fulfilling Performance in more detail in Episode 60 of Career-view Mirror which is a short side mirror episode. If you enjoy Career-view Mirror, please follow us in your podcast. Thanks for listening