CAREER-VIEW MIRROR - biographies of colleagues in the automotive and mobility industries.

Steve Underwood: the unassuming global head of financial services who turned a safe career option into engaging roles at Ford, Porsche, McLaren and Aston Martin Lagonda.

November 28, 2022 Andy Follows Episode 92
CAREER-VIEW MIRROR - biographies of colleagues in the automotive and mobility industries.
Steve Underwood: the unassuming global head of financial services who turned a safe career option into engaging roles at Ford, Porsche, McLaren and Aston Martin Lagonda.
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Since 2017, Steve has been the Managing Director of Financial Services for Aston Martin Lagonda. Prior to that he set up the global financial services structure for McLaren Financial Services and before that he held the role of Managing Director of Porsche Financial Services GB. 

In our conversation we talk about how Steve found his way into the automotive finance industry from banking and his approach to leadership and partnership which very much resonates with me. I look forward to hearing what resonates with you. 

You can contact Steve via LinkedIn 

 

If you enjoy listening to my guests career stories, please follow CAREER-VIEW MIRROR in your podcast app.  

Instagram @careerviewmirror  

Email: cvm@aquilae.co.uk 

 

Episode recorded on 21 November, 2022 

Steve Underwood:

And my boss stood up and said, I know Steve's been to see you all. And I know that you've all told me personally that you agree with what he wants to do and why he wants to do it. So does Steve need to go through the presentation? Or can we just agree to sign it off?

Aquilae:

Welcome to Career-view Mirror the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers to share insights to help you with your own journey. Here's your host, Andy Follows

Andy:

Hello, listeners, Andy here. Thank you for tuning in. In this episode, we're celebrating the career to date of Steve Underwood. Since 2017, Steve has been the Managing Director of Financial Services for Aston Martin Lagonda. Prior to that he set up the global financial services structure for McLaren Financial Services. And before that he held the role of Managing Director of Porsche Financial Services GB. In our conversation, we talked about how Steve found his way into the automotive finance industry from banking, and his approach to leadership and partnership, which very much resonates with me. I look forward to hearing what resonates with you. If you enjoy listening to my guest stories, please could you do me a favour and click the Follow button in the app that you use to listen to your podcasts. This helps our podcast grow so that we can continue to share the wealth of experience that our guests have amassed during their careers so far. Hello, Steve, welcome. And where are you coming to us from today?

Steve Underwood:

I come from Newbury where I'm busy working from home at the moment.

Andy:

Thank you very much for joining. Newbury's just, well I say just down the road, it's not that far from where I am either. Is that where you're from? Where were you born?

Steve Underwood:

I was born in Cambridge. But that was because it happened to be the local maternity hospital for Huntington which is where I spent the first part of my life really.

Andy:

Okay. And is that where you grew up?

Steve Underwood:

I grew up in in and around Huntington for the first 15 years and then started moving around fairly, we were fairly peripatetic I guess. I was, my family weren't, but I was

Andy:

Oh right, I look forward to hearing about that in a little while. First of all, they can we spend a little bit of time talking about your childhood in Huntington and growing up there. What about your family situation? Do you have brothers and sisters,

Steve Underwood:

I have one sister who's three years younger than myself. We are I guess we are quite different. She is I would say far smarter than me picks things up really quickly, but has a different sort of work ethic. So she came to school as a bit of a saw it as a challenge and was a bit rebellious. And then after she should have left school, she then knuckled down and got a degree and master's and is now doing a lot of research in the pharmaceutical industry.

Andy:

Right? I find it very interesting. Some of my guests were very studious at school, and some weren't and yet obviously have carried on to knuckle down once they got into the workplace. So sounds like she did that. And what about what were your mum and dad doing, I like to know what jobs you had sight of when you were growing up?

Steve Underwood:

Okay, so my dad when I was first born, was a forestry worker for the Forestry Commission. And then he left and joined the post office and as he quite proudly reminds me he doubled his salary to four pounds a week and was a postman. So Right. And he did his rounds. And as a kid, we used to go out, we used to do the Sunday collections. And then we'd go out on a Sunday in his van with him and just spend some time with him. My mother was a secretary, basically, when when we were kids, she worked from half past nine to three o'clock, so covered the school hours, if you like, and then she in turn spent some time after after we kind of grown up and and she became a housing manager for a housing association in Peterborough. But she had to take exams and get some qualifications, which was the first time that she'd done anything like that at all. At the age of well, probably mid

Andy:

So she had a career change relatively late on. And nice 40s. that you were able to go out with your father in the van delivering the post.

Steve Underwood:

I used to love it

Andy:

Yeah. I mean, I ask my guests what roles they had visibility of, there aren't many, where they actually went along. I was one of my guests recently, Peter Coe in Australia, his father had a store and he would you know, sort of retail newsagent and things. So he would go to work with his dad, three o'clock in the morning he used to get up and do the papers and things but yeah, there aren't many guests where they actually got to go to work with their father. So you haven't gone in that direction, though. So we'll perhaps uncover a little bit more about how you how you chose what you did. But whilst we're still in those childhood years, what sort of a student were you?

Steve Underwood:

I think it was quite good. I wouldn't consider myself to be particularly studiou s. I ended up I private school was fine. I had a good time at primary school. Junior school, I had a, I think I had a really good teacher in my last year at junior school where we pretty much were allowed to do what what we liked. And myself, my friend were very interested in in the ancient Egyptians at that stage, the Tutankhamun exhibition had come to London, with the famous mask and everything. And so we were very much wrapped up and all that, which concluded with a school trip to the museum to see it. But we basically did like a research project for three months, which was fantastic. And I really enjoyed that, probably would be frowned upon today. It doesn't meet with the criteria, the curriculum or whatever, but I think it's stood me in good stead for going on to secondary school. And then I went, I went to the secondary, the local one in Huntingdon, there's two comprehensives in Huntington. One was the old Grammar School. One was the old secondary modern. I went to the old secondary modern one and had a had a well, I would say a pretty reasonable time at school, I ended up in the top set academically in all the subjects I did, but I also enjoyed sports. I played football, cricket and rugby for the school in various age groups. And I also played the cello as well. Wow. So I got up to grade six of the cello and was doing grade eight when I finally stopped when I was in my late teens. So

Andy:

yeah, as did my wife, I think she stopped at grade eight. Sounds like you're quite an all rounder then Steve. So getting on with your your studies getting into the top set across the board, and also doing plenty of sport as well. And music. So really good all around grounding. That Tutankhamun piece, the ancient Egyptians, the fact that you found something that you and your friend were really interested, genuinely interested in and thoroughly enjoyed doing a research project for a number of months. Yeah, I think that sounds really cool. And when it came to qualifications, how did you come out?

Steve Underwood:

Okay, so I ended up I took two O levels a year early. So year four of secondary school, year 10 I think is the equivalent nowadays, and then I took eight more in year 11 Or year five, so I've ended up with 10 levels, kind of A's and B's. And then in a mixture of subjects, the sciences arts, music, then I had we had a big upheaval, we moved from Huntington to just north of Peterborough.

Andy:

How far is that for our international listeners,

Steve Underwood:

it's about 45 minutes drive away, which was obviously a lot in those days, my mum, we moved actually in my last year at the in the fifth year if you like at secondary sch ool, we moved, my mum who happened to work at the school as admin assistant at that stage was we drove for six months to commuted six months, which was unheard of in that in our area you know, like 10 minute walk was considered quite substantial. 45 minutes in the car each way was was interesting. And then I then I went to a grammar school in Bourne for my sixth form, Bourne is in Lincolnshire, Lincolnshire at that stage still had grammar schools, but it was a very small school 400 Children in total, ranging from 11 to 18. And there was about 35 of us in sixth form. I can't say I had a particularly enjoyable time there, I was very much the outsider, there was a very close knit community and I was neither related to anyone or came from the area or knew the area. And I was the outsider for much of that, which was okay, I didn't it didn't bother me too much. It probably didn't help that, at that stage you could dress in the school uniform, or you could wear a suit. And rather than invest in a school uniform, my parents thought the suit would be better. And I did as well. So I had a three piece suit as my school uniform. So I stood out in the crowd.

Andy:

It's a good idea on paper.

Steve Underwood:

Yeah, hindsight is probably different. But it just felt a little bit odd. And at the same time, so I kind of had two lives in many ways. So I had my school life where I basically went northward from the village travelling eight miles to school. And then I also my parents always instilled a strong work ethic in me. So at the age of 11, my dad gave me two weeks notice that he was no longer to pay me pocket money and that I had to go and earn my money. So I ended up doing a paper out which ironically, was the same paper round that he'd done when he was a kid. I did that for five years and helped out a little bit in the shop. And then when I went to when we moved to north of Peterborough, I used to work for Sainsbury's in Peterborough on a Thursday night and a Saturday all throughout my A levels. And so had a different set of friends and different set of acquaintances if you like with different attitudes as well, which was interesting, as kind of my my second group of friends

Andy:

say a bit more about the different attitudes.

Steve Underwood:

So I wasn't I wasn't considered an outsider in terms of the the Peterborough lot if you like the Sainsbury's lot because there was a from a much broader area and there was a much less close community and a broader, I guess, economic spectrum as well, whereas, whereas Bourne was all very much the same if that makes sense. A lot of people everyone knew each other parents knew each other. There were cousins in the class there were all sorts of things that it was just a small community, a small fairly rural community, very loyal to the town.

Andy:

So your part time job gave you access to a different set of a different group of people where you fitted in?

Steve Underwood:

Yeah, it felt more comfortable. Yeah.

Andy:

And how successful were? Were A levels okay?

Steve Underwood:

No. A levels were probably the first time I failed in my life as far as I was concerned. So I want I decided I wanted to do dentistry. That was my, my aim.

Andy:

How did you arrive at that?

Steve Underwood:

I don't really know. I was thinking about this the other day, I was thinking about this conversation thinking, why did I choose why did I want to become a dentist, I think I knew it was I was interested in medical stuff. I knew I wasn't going to make it as as a surgeon, and I didn't really want to be a GP. But I thought a dentist in a in a in the heart of a small community would be would be interesting. And so that's what I wanted to do. That's what I worked towards so I did biology, chemistry, physics at A level. And because that's what you needed. And I got offered three C's from Newcastle University and three Cs from Leeds, which was the standard those days, nowadays, it's A stars and everything but those days, it was fine. I put Newcastle as my first choice, and Leeds is my second. And then I got two C's and an E. So I didn't get into Newcastle and Leeds, I didn't get to either because I did ring them up on the off chance they would still sneak me in and they said if I'd put them first choice, they would have put me in which was a bit galling. But so then I was left in a position that I didn't really know what to do. So for the first time, I felt that I'd failed and not achieved what I wanted to achieve. And so I like some of your other guests I've listened to, I was the first person in my family to get some formal qualifications. First person to get an O level, first person getting A levels in my immediate family and also the first person to go to university. So it felt that I ought to go to university, that I'd be missing an opportunity, I'd be wasting my time. So I kind of fished around and I ended up doing through clearing Pharmacology at Leeds, ironically enough, which is this not the pharmacy, which is the how do you dispense drugs, but the pharmacology is the research into new drugs and how things work. And that was an enjoyable course apart from my as, as I went through the three years, I had a big aversion to basically the killing of animals for experiments. It became a big issue for me. So my actual thesis was was actually a library thesis based on something called nuclear magnetic resonance, which is a form of imaging, but I refused to do any animal experimentation. Just I couldn't I couldn't do it. That's not what I wanted to do.

Andy:

Right? And did that cause you some difficulties?

Steve Underwood:

Not particularly, the university were pretty good that I wasn't the only one of the 30 odd in the year wherever it was. I think that three of us did a library dissertation in the end. And I came out with a 2:1 so it didn't do me too badly. I was not studious University, I had two really great years of partying and enjoying myself and doing enough to get by. I got 2:2s in my year end exams but in my last year, I certainly knuckled down and worked hard.

Andy:

Very good. Well done and did you want to stay in pharmacology. What were you learning about that? Apart from the fact the animal side was not you know, you didn't like that. How were your thoughts progressing in terms of that as a career as you went through your course?

Steve Underwood:

I didn't really see where it was going to be honest. So I I ended up thinking that as a more of generic, I'd got a degree with a reasonable grade. What else could I do so in the milk rounds, I talked to accountancy firms, I talked to consultancy, I talked to some of the big manufacturers and things. But I didn't I didn't really know what I wanted to do and and I left university still not really sure what to do. So I worked for a couple more months, at that stage my summer job had changed from Sainsbury's to the Pea Growers and Research Organisation, which basically was based in Stanford. And they did a lot of I don't know if they still exist or not but they did a lot of study into the development of pea growing so they used to have all these test plots they tried different varieties tried different chemicals tried different organic ways to try and get the pea production for the likes of Bird's Eye and whatever.

Andy:

So Stanford in Lincolnshire, which is Lincolnshire, obviously a huge agricultural county

Steve Underwood:

Yeah, but we see all over East of England so Yeah, it does sound good. And was that a part time job or so basically, a farmer would donate a plot of land and they use to divide it into 20 plots probably about two metres by about four and then and then some of these areas would be controlled and then we our job basically was to go along harvest all the peas, keep them in separate in separate sacks, go back to the operation in Stanford and extract all the peas and they'd measure the yield, the colour, the size of the peas and all sorts but it was good fun because because we used to put them through this great threshing machine and it used to produce all this kind of mangled pea stalks so you put the whole plant in and it would flick all the peas out ultimately. And then we'd go drive the tractors to the farmer next door and he had big field or several big fields for the cows and we used to literally, put an old fashioned tractor in in the lowest possible gear going up the hill so it was just about moving then we'd just get on the back and just pitchfork all this stuff. It meant several summers of driving tractors in the sunshine, it was good. No, that was just a summer job as I was trying to work out what I was going to do?

Andy:

And what was the first job you did where you felt you were sort of starting a proper job.

Steve Underwood:

Okay, so So I applied for several things. And I got offered three jobs in one week. One was to do a physiology PhD in Leicester. So as a research assistant, but with the view of doing a PhD. One was to become a, an advert writer for a pharmaceutical marketing company, or marketing company that specialises in pharmaceuticals, I should say, which was really actually quite interesting. And that was probably my favourite option, which is not not the one I took, and I think I can I'll come back to that just a minute why as to why and the third one was to join Barclays Bank, as on a local graduate Trainee Scheme just for the region. And I think this is where the kind of pressure of not having people around you who who knew and say look take the risk and my own personal view of, you've got to work hard, and you've got to get some safety net, and whatever. So I chose Barclays when really, I quite fancied the advertising role, but it was in a small firm of eight people and I was the ninth effectively when you think of that, and even at the age of 21, are still quite risk averse, I guess at that stage. So I saw I joined Barclays and ended up working for Barclays for 10 years.

Andy:

Whereabouts did you start? Started in Peterborough, spent a year there in their largest branch, which was the largest in the region so about 150 people. And I started on literally in the back office encoding checks, then moved to the counter, sat on the counter for three or four months and then moved to what they called the security department. So taking charges overland and other bits and pieces. So it was that sense of slight risk aversion having been brought up in a certain way. And we do hear this from guests all the time that sometimes the paradigms of the parents are passed on to the children, if the parents grew up in a certain time, and, you know, with a certain risk aversion that gets can get passed on and they guide towards sensible options.

Steve Underwood:

And they I think to be fair, they've not had an experience of what, what does University mean? Or what does Post University mean. And, you know, they were very supportive with whatever I chose, and still are, but what I think I can offer my children now is saying look actually look at this and look at that and look at it from this angle and choose the subjects that you really want to do and the job that you really want to do rather than than what you feel you should do I guess it's the it's the big difference.

Andy:

Yes, it's find that job that excites you like the Egyptian project excited you and your friend at school.

Steve Underwood:

Yeah. It is

Andy:

Yeah, very good. So but that meant you were getting a grounding in the bank, you were on a Graduate Programme and you were moving around and doing lots of different things

Steve Underwood:

Yeah, my only problem with graduate programme was the region was disbanded after about 18 months after I'd been there so I was in I was then in the in the general flow of things. So there's no there was no fast track promotion after that, or no, moving me around, it was you're now in the mainstream with everyone else. Right. So I then I did move around quite a bit, I went to Northampton to the branch I enjoyed most, which was a very small branch in the north in Abington Street, which doesn' t well the street exists but the branch doesn't anymore. And because at a small branch, I got to see a broad knowledge of everything really, we did lots of little things. Whereas in the bigger branches, you do one job, almost like a factory work and you keep doing that because of the sheer volume of it. I got to see and learn about so many different things really.

Andy:

I think that's a really good principle or transferable principle whether it's a small bank or a small business that if it's small, then you get exposed to much more Yeah, but if you can find a place that is small but has got you know a small bank branch you've got all security of the big bank behind you

Steve Underwood:

exactly,

Andy:

but all the benefits of the breadth of your role being that much wider

Steve Underwood:

Yeah, which was good and then we got then merged with they basically merged all Northampton branches and they created what they call was a business centre. So I then got moved to be a PA to one of the managers

Andy:

and what did that involve?

Steve Underwood:

customers, I would sit in the customer meetings occasionally. But more often than not, I'd get note saying please can you take a charge of this plot of land or wherever it might be? So I did that for a bit. Then I got moved to become the student loans officer. So Northampton has an in college and I probably for the first time ran my own little business if that makes sense. I know it's within the bank and everything but it was up to me then to develop relationship with the local college, with students union, with the students themselves. So I moved branch again to a little office literally outside this university but 400 metres away from university or college. I think it's university now, but it was college just then. And basically controlled the whole thing which which is I really enjoyed. A theme in my life, I do enjoy being in charge of everything. I like to I like to be able to be that I like to be the decision maker. That's that's what it comes down to I decided in life,

Andy:

right.Well you're a very charming and cheerful one. It's not like you're a Bond villain who wants total global domination. You like to just be in control of that which, yes, which you're responsible and accountable and able to make decisions. Yeah. So that was the first experience of really feeling that you're running something. Yes.

Steve Underwood:

Yeah. There was no staff management, but it was, it was indirect people management, which I guess I've quite, I've always quite enjoyed. So that's good,

Andy:

what say a bit more, because that's an incredible skill that we can all benefit from. What are your thoughts on that indirect people management

Steve Underwood:

so so so I'm really keen on partnerships, if that makes sense. really keen. And, and in any company, there's always this arguement what's the difference between a supplier and a partner. And a partner, as far as I'm concerned, whether it's with the student union, or whether it's with one of our current providers at Aston, it's all about sharing what you're trying to achieve, ultimately, and explain to them what's in it for them, what's in it for us and be very open and transparent, you want this, I want this, let's work together. How can we do that? And I think that the transparency and openness and the honesty that requires comes both ways then because then you understand what they're trying to do you understand what difficulties they may face, I can explain that I can do this. But I but I need a bit more time to do that. Because I need to do this, this and this. It's the bit that I really enjoy. I think ultimately, because you're working towards something with a bunch of people that you you can't tell them what to do. But you can ask them. So can we do this together? Can we work on this? Or more importantly, I love thing called Guided Discovery. It's one of my favourite management techniques is when you lead the questions, so they can say they think they can come up answer. It works especially well, I think when we're managing people upwards, I hope my boss isn't listening to this, but I do it quite frequently just lead the questions and let them fill in the gaps. And then they think it's their own idea.

Andy:

Definitely a useful skill to have. Let's go back then to student finance that you were doing. This is before the current setup wasn't it

Steve Underwood:

Yes. Yeah. So it was a mixture of things, it was marketing, it was lending. It was debt collection, it was helping people budget.

Andy:

Yeah, so these were loans for individual students. This wasn't just just making sure that any listeners who've got students, we don't want to turn you into a figure of hate among the students community. This is not what you have now, where you have to pay for your education.

Steve Underwood:

No, no, this was the cost of living effectively loans. And it's two things. Firstly, it was it was managing overdrafts and managing grant checks, they don't exist anymore. But then secondly, then when they when they graduated, and it was then providing a loan to help them set up and get themselves set up for a new role. So whether they need to put deposit on a flat in a new city or whatever it might be. Yeah, I would say it was constructive lending, if that makes sense.

Andy:

Yeah, very good. Very helpful. What happened after that? What was your next move from there?

Steve Underwood:

I went to run a security team down in Luton. And I was living in Northampton at the time. So again, a commute down, up and down the M1 which wasn't, wasn't very enjoyable. To extent that I actually asked to be transferred back to Northampton. It was compromising my family life, it was compromising me. I just was working long hours, and I didn't like Luton, I just didn't like the working atmosphere. And I'm not great at I guess I have my own set of how I think things should work. And the people there were very different and very controlling, and I'm not, I'm not great at being micromanaged. I think as you get older, you realise what you're good at and what you're what you're not good at. And you also realise what you like and what you don't like. So I asked to get transferred back. And I did, but it cost me I got downgraded by a grade. Wow. But I wanted to do that because it was important

Andy:

And that makes sense, if you so for interrupting, if to me. you're the sort of person who likes partnership, who likes to sit down with a potential partner, a partner and say, Okay, this is what we'd like to achieve. This is all the information I can share with you. How shall we do this together? That doesn't sound like someone who's going to enjoy being micro managed or who thinks that's the right approach. So what was your fatmily, you say it wasn't good for your family travelling down to Luton. By this stage what was your family situation?

Steve Underwood:

So I was married to my my first wife, and we had two youngish children. So they would be three and three and one.

Andy:

And what's the what does it mean to be managing a securities team?

Steve Underwood:

So a security team again, the people who do the bank charges do the reviews of the annual reviews of the facilities and things like that, right. So the bank charges being the charge overland not cost of bank charges.

Andy:

You Yeah, thank you for clarifying that. So yeah, so when you've got say, take an asset in security against a loan

Steve Underwood:

Yeah, it's putting all the legal forms in and whatever.

Andy:

But you decided that that wasn't working so you got transferred back. Was this to Peterborough?

Steve Underwood:

No no. This Northampton was my base but then I've actually got transferred then to Corby branch. Corby's in the north of Northamptonshire which is for your listeners is a little place of Scotland has been transmuted down from Glasgow at the turn of the 1900s about 20,000 workers came from from Goven in Glasgow to work in the steelworks which had just opened up there and Corby was famous for it's steel works. But it was a unique town and there was a lot of Scottish accents still around. It had a bus every Friday that went back to Glasgow, gosh, and came back on on the Sunday night. It has it has the largest Glasgow Rangers supporters club outside Glasgow or did do and it celebrates all the Scottish bank holidays rather than the English ones.

Andy:

I didn't know that.

Steve Underwood:

Yeah, the people are lovely. I really enjoyed myself there. And I was only there for best part of 18 months I should think when we got merged with the local Kettering branch, and by that stage, I was known as the Customer Services Manager, which as we were technically a sub branch I was responsible for the the sub branch even though we were about 15 people. So when I did that, and it was the start when Barclays were starting to introduce sales targets for the first time, really. So we had our sales targets, which we achieved by probably about mid October for the year. So I was quite chuffed. And then I went for review and they said, you know, congratulations, you've done well, clearly, we need to promote you. And I thought that's good news. And they said we'd like to probably to an admin role. And I thought that's not me. Really, isn't me? So I said, Oh, thank you and didn't say much more. And literally that weekend in the Sunday Times was an advert from Ford Credit to have some Zone Managers for Midlands regions, which would pretty much as far as they it was East Midlands as well. So it's my area. So I applied for this job, and myself and two other friends filled the three vacancies that they took. So I went from being the Customer Service Manager, Barclays to a Zone Manager, Ford Credit. So my first venture into car finance, managed to increase my salary from 16,000 to 25,000, which was huge at that stage.

Andy:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, I can imagine. But I'm fascinated by the fact that the bank thought they would presumably thought they were doing you a favour they thought they were responding. Well, the first part of that story, I was thinking, Oh, how, how fantastic that when someone performs well, you reward them with a promotion. However, they hadn't done the due diligence to realise that would not go down well with you know, to the extent that you would up and leave almost immediately.

Steve Underwood:

Yeah, it just, it just didn't strike me. I mean, it was probably the targets, I guess what the first time that we'd had real targets, and the first time I'd actually done some selling so we would sell loans, we would sell mortgages and whatever. And my job was very much looking after the first the bankers who were selling the savings accounts and whatever, but then my job was then to sell in the loans and the mortgages, right to buy was quite common at stage so we were doing doing all those, how do I get that out of the marketplace? And I having done all that. And then she said are great, you know, your next job is having shown some sort of, I would say, skill set at selling to be told that you please can you then do the next job when you have to sign off the gas bill, electricity bill and lock the safe each night? It just sounded horrendous.

Andy:

But that was considered to be more promoted more more responsibility

Steve Underwood:

It was it was two grades higher than where I was so it was it was

Andy:

right. Yeah, but not the kind of work you wanted to do.

Steve Underwood:

No. So I joined Ford Credit. Right so tell us about that. And two of your friends joined Well two people who became friends I should say oh, okay, yeah, so three of us joined on the same day.

Andy:

Right. That always helps to bring people together doesn't it? Colleagues you start a new job with and obviously you would have been bringing all of your experience some really good relevant experience from the bank. And so what was it like then doing that zone manager role That's where they went yeah

Steve Underwood:

I loved it. I absolutely it's one of my favourite jobs in my career. I loved it, so I got a car I had a Ford Probe or several Ford Probes in the in the in the time I was there which which when I look at them now thinking I was excited then but I'm not so sure I would be now. It used to used to be quite amusing when we do have team meetings and we'd come from around the region and then you'll see all these Ford Probes parked up in the carpark. I love the freedom of it. That's the bit I liked. Again, I had an area to manage, which basically Yeah, Northampton, Peterborough and

Andy:

You had your own territory Stamford. I had some good dealers, not so good dealers, I learned quickly which ones were which and which ones that I could spend an awful lot time with and not get anywhere with who were fixed in their ways. And you quite rightly would say, Look, you know, you're clearly not going to be around here for more than a couple of years and then so why would I? Why would I not so much listen to you? But why would I get too invested in you because then somebody else will replace you. So, one dealer made me work in their dealership for basically said, Look, you know, you're not in the industry come sell cars for a few weeks to show me you can do it, which I did. And again, I enjoyed that. Another one, just basically, I quickly realised that I won't mention any names, but I could have spent all day there during the training going through the renewals list of the PCPs and everything. And they'd nod and say yes. And they tell me what they thought I wanted to hear. And then just when I'd gone, they'd just carry on. So I quickly worked out which dealers I was going to focus on. I had one very large dealer group, which ware great. And I had one family dealer group, which was not not worth investing too much my time because I couldn't you can only make people change if they want to. And they clearly didn't want the change. They were happy. They had a level of income and business they were happy with and why change that was their view. How were you able to help the large dealer group

Steve Underwood:

basically, by doing an awful lot of basic zone manager so training, development, thinking things, running prospecting evenings with pizzas and things, just generally trying to get everyone focused on on on F&I. And Ford at that stage was going through an awful lot of formal training through the half the car programmes and supporting those but but then really back it up and really focusing on the renewals. That's, that's something I've done probably for the rest of my financial career really is focus on on retaining customers and growing that, that base. So with people who want to learn and develop and want to be supported by it by helping them and thinking you know have you thought about approaching this customer that way? Or have you thought about it doing this or when in the process are you doing because we didn't use the or they didn't use the Pendle sales process. They were they were much less, much less formal. And I would probably say, in many ways, quite successful when you've got a bunch of switched on sales guys. It didn't they just needed that flexibility. But they just needed, I think, a framework to work within but not a set formula, if that makes sense.

Andy:

Yeah. So the Pendel process was a very, I don't know, particularly well, I just know

Steve Underwood:

very rigid process. Yeah, yeah. Step one do this, step four you took the customer to the business manager. Step five, you made them wait while you did a quote, I've got step numbers wrong. But it was, I think, if I'm right an eight step process, and

Andy:

yeah, so you prefer to work with a little bit more autonomy for the individuals, I guess, within a framework, give them some space, and then if they're good people, let them work in that space

Steve Underwood:

it comes back to one of my theories that you deal with customers the way that they want to be dealt with, rather than how you want to deal with.

Andy:

Yes, and that takes some extra level of ability, to be able to do that,

Steve Underwood:

and confidence. So I was just after the structure of the bank, I was loving the freedom of being the manager of my own time being disciplined and motivated and enjoying enjoying the travelling, seeing the dealers, what your your your membership or that team? it was it was, it was wonderful, but I only did it for 13, 14 months. Ford Credit then decided to change to they were merging Ford Contract Motoring with the zone managers. And so they decided to create a separate fleet team. So I was asked to join that which lasted for about two months. And then My membership, because then I got asked to go down to Brentwood to look at to broaden out the PCP programme or to help broaden out the PCP programme across Europe.

Andy:

Right, PCP for our international listeners, we've probably talked about it before. And I bet I haven't jumped in and asked for an explanation. But it's it's a bit like a lease what the US would call a lease isn't it

Steve Underwood:

Yep yeah, so in many countries, you can lease a car and own the vehicle at the end of it. In the UK, you can't so the PCP is just a purchase programme that ultimately allows you to do the same sort of thing. Keep the car return the car.

Andy:

So you went down Brentwood being the head office then of Ford Credit?

Steve Underwood:

Yes, yeah. So I went down there, and had an amazing time working with some Ford guys working directly with some of the Ford of Europe team rather than just Ford Credit people. We helped launch options in Spain, Portugal, Sweden, Belgium, and helped Germany to a certain extent, because they were Ford Credit at that stage had three areas effectively UK being one, Germany being the second and the rest of Europe being the third one, and roughly in terms of volume size of a third, third third, but I also helped because obviously Ford of Europe were very keen to that they had a team of three or four people that I was working with, and I also helped with the residual value side of things as well. And certainly when it came to some of their daily rental fleet deals I got involved with some of those as well. In fact, I was telling one of my friends the other day, one of the most horrendous but amusing moments in hindsight was we had the big Ford bigwig come across from the US and we were talking about selling the end of contract cars from Spain that had been down on the on the holding makers in in southern Spain, and they came back to central Madrid where they probably sat in the sunshine for about 12 months and the tyres went all hard and cracked. But we were talking especially to this particular guy at the moment at that particular moment about mileage and how the mileage on the car is really important how it's controlled and everything and we're going around this repair centre we go around the corner and there's a guy standing there with a drill attached to a speedo cable. Clearly clocking the cars. And the American said what are they doing, and I said I think he must have some sort of issue. I'm not quite sure what it is. Let's go this way. And I looked at my partner from Ford, who's a Norwegian guy, we look to each other an went oh my goodness.

Andy:

I presume you as soon as the meeting was over, you went and sorted that out.

Steve Underwood:

Oh, yes. What are you doing?

Andy:

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Steve Underwood:

It was Yeah. Yeah, I didn't actually go on holiday abroad till I was 21.

Andy:

That's interesting. Looking at, you know, knowing now that you're in a global role. So it's obviously relevant, where you first started getting some exposure to different markets. Where did you go from there?

Steve Underwood:

So I stayed within For Credit, and then became the market manager for the rest of Europe and ultimately, kind of had a great input in the marketing for both Ford Bank of Germany and Ford Credit UK.

Andy:

Did you get your copywriting then?

Steve Underwood:

Oh no, I didn't any of that

Andy:

Just thinking back to those original options that you had. Okay

Steve Underwood:

but I guess I met at that stage when I was, I was the Marketing Manager because Ford Credit moved you around. The next stage was at one stage we'll talk about me going out to Benelux to be a regional president or a regional kind of deputy president there. There were there were two guys who I think were quite formative in my career at that stage one was a guy called Peter du Rousset Hall, who was my boss's boss at that stage. And he had great charisma. Absolutely great. And he's one of those guys that ah, we've got someone leaving, can you please do without any warning do an impromptu leaving speech? And you know, he'd have the place roaring. And the other guy was a guy called Mike Bannister who ultimately became the chairman of Ford Motor Credit company, which is basically the global chairman who was very good from Texas amazing work ethic, but you can never you can never be in office before him or leave before him it Yeah, he'd always be there. But we're getting maybe, I don't know just pick a country Belgium wanted to do a low rate campaign, we'd have to go through a set sign off process that would be about 20 signatures from Belgium from the regional office from from Central for accounting and whatever and to go in there and present it to him and the first four or five times when i was there he goes why should I sign this? And I'd just sell it to him and he would go and what do you think I should do? You know, and he'd really test what I want to do. And then after about five or six, I walk in there and I was you get prepared, you're ready to go amongst reasons. Like okay, so shall I sign this thing? Oh, yes. And then before I could say because he'd go okay. And after that it was always like, should I or shouldn't I which was great, but he really it really gave me that understanding that you really need to prepare for these things. And but it also, in those first four or five times he'd really pick my brains and I was thinking have I thought of that I thought that it just be broadened my, my thinking about the whole thing.

Andy:

Right? He almost gave you sounds like he gave you a framework set of questions for you to then ask yourself in future rounds. And then once he knew that you'd done it half a dozen times, he was fairly confident.

Steve Underwood:

Yeah, he was very clever. He helped me out because we used to then have to when we were launchin the PCP programme in Belgium you had to get US approval. So it helped me work it through the US system as well.

Andy:

Yes. Yeah. That's another important thing, isn't it? Understanding the headquarters understanding how to get things done having the right network and connections, because of the human trust that in a very individual personal relationships that come in. In the same way that you got to the point where you could walk into his office and get something signed on the basis of him saying, Should I sign this, then he could go to people in the US and they would say, if Mike says it's okay, then it's okay. Yeah,

Steve Underwood:

I actually enough, then that's how I was managing my the team, original people that were working with me, it became very clear that when they put proposal together, they knew what I'd be asking.

Andy:

Yeah, so you start mirroring his behaviour and cascading that approach. And the whole organisation gets more efficient, and there's more trust, and there's more capability and there's more speed, because you're not having to go through everything with a fine tooth comb. I love it. Steve, really good example. Thank you. Okay, where were we at?

Steve Underwood:

So Ford Credit, it was it was 1998 I was at Ford Credit. And then I got approached by Charter Trust, which doesn't exist anymore. It's now part of Lloyds.

Andy:

So that was an independent bank,

Steve Underwood:

An independent finance company, who specialised in older used car finance, but they wanted to launch a PCP and try and get into the more newer cars and certainly get into some of the manufacturers. So at that stage, they had a relationship with Honda and Suzuki, and they were looking to try and do other bits. Again, it's not one of my favourite roles there because I don't like being micromanaged. And I was, I was getting micromanaged from day one. I completely understand people who don't know you wanting to understand how you work and why you work and do the initial micromanagement, but it just didn't. It just didn't work for me. I didn't enjoy it. I was there for two years. And that was two years was about as long as I could cope with and I was busy applying for jobs, probably the last six months of that when I eventually I saw a role in the Sunday Times for Hitachi Capital, or Fleet Lease as it was then and just set up a car finance division, and that's based in Newbury. So at that stage, I was living in South Wales and commuting for four and a half years I commuted to Newbury, which is 70 miles each way. So which is over 110 kilometres.

Andy:

What had taken you to South Wales?

Steve Underwood:

Carter Trust are based in Cardiff. There were some upheavals in my personal life. At that stage, I got divorced as well. And so I took the opportunity to really start afresh, I guess, with everything both personally and professionally, and got the job at Hitachi. And we set up a company called Nova Vehicle Finance or Division more precisely, a Fleet Lease called Nova Vehicle Finance, which ironically enough, three and a half years later, I closed down.

Andy:

At least you were in control.

Steve Underwood:

For a finance company, we were very profitable, we were fine. We weren't, we weren't causing any issues. But we'd developed some strong ralationships with some brokers, we decided a business model that would not employ our own field force, but we would use brokers as our primary field force. So we spent some time talking to a number of the key players that still around today. And we had a PCP product, which gave us a bit of a USP compared to some of the other lenders at that stage. If you can have a bit of a USP.

Andy:

Technically, probably not, but I think we know what you mean.

Steve Underwood:

Yeah. So we did that. But But then after three years, I was appointed the Business Development Director for the whole of Hitachi Capital Vehicle Solutions as we were then which basically is a Contract Hire company and leasing company that specialised particular stage in commercial vehicles. And when we did the strategic study, which I was heavily involved in, we were making six times as much return on investment on commercial vehicles than we were on finance. Not a limited amount of capital with a set amount of capital. It was the obvious decision to make no matter how much I personally didn't want to do it. I couldn't argue against it. So for three and a half years after that, I spent I spent some time managing the sales team, I managed a rentals team customer services, it kind of kind of grew into a multifaceted role, but I missed the dealer element. So I do like dealers. I know they sometimes they have a bit of a bad reputation, but I enjoy talking to people I think ultimately and yeah, especially when you understand in many cases and certainly around the world, dealers are not necessarily all part of big dealer groups. And part of a larger organisations, a lot of them is certainly in America, family owned operations. Are there big corporations that started by one man who's still around and you talk to these guys and you understand that they are smart cookies, most of them are

Andy:

They understand their business, they understand their customers, they know what they're. Yeah. And they're entrepreneurs and they've put their own capital at risk. They've created jobs for other people

Steve Underwood:

they have. And I have a lot of admiration for Because the regulations were changing. So you had that them for doing that. And so I was lucky enough to be And we needed to change the business. I mean, the product approached by Porsche, to talk to them about being the MD of deadline, yep. Porsche Financial Services in Great Britain, which I did. would have caused a lot of issue, variable rate within HPs Again, I loved that role. And again, going back to some of the basics of why I enjoy things. So my boss was the MD, in Stuttgart in a rising interest rate market, you're gonna get of PFS worldwide, all the different markets that they had operations in had their own MDs, and we'd meet twice a year, customers who say, Well, hang on my loan's 26,000. And now it's which was interesting. So it gave me an overview of what's going on with their markets. But what I liked about it was, this 35,000, Why? You know, it's easy enough to explain, but it might is what we want you to do. These are your targets, don't try and be a hero, just do what you say you're going to do, ultimately, from mathematical basis, but it's not easy enough to explain and and we'll just keep an eye on you. And so I joined in 2007, on an emotional basis. So PCP was was was just to me the then January 2008, the CCA rules the customer credit rules were changing. And historically, what we'd done was was a whole load obvious answer, certainly, with a brand like Porsche, where of verbal rate, customer risk RV lending, at that stage which had to stop. So especially in a recession was about to hit rates residuals are going to be relatively strong and more for rising. So probably the thing that I'm most proud of my career is that we introduced PCP into the UK, with with Porsche importantly relatively consistent. So we didn't have to financial services, and then created a template which which go as aggressive as possible, we could take a reasonable view and is still used by Porsche financial services around the world for how you set RVs, why you do it, how you do it, how take this where we saw the market, and we'll take a step you market it, how you how you work it with the dealers, the training programmes, it was an amazing kind of nine months back from that position. So we did that. But But I was proud of between I'm in here and I need to get this done. We talked about learning how to navigate through the way that I had to, had to learn how to navigate through not just financial services in Germany, but there was a number of Porsche people right up to the CEO at the time who needed to sign it off, because of the risk taken and so I spent a lot of time in Stuttgart and Stuttgart airport travelling to and from understanding who to talk to why to talk to and get their approval to the point there was 21 people that ultimately were in the sign off meeting, and my boss stood up and said, I know Steve's been to see you all. And I know that you've all told me personally that you agree with what he wants to do and why he wants to do it. So does Steve need to go through the presentation? Or can we just agree to sign it off?

Andy:

So did Porsche have that approach of sort of everyone has to be pre aligned before being presented? And agreed it. Yeah, it was good. But it's probably the

Steve Underwood:

Yes, very much so

Andy:

In Toyota they call it nemawashi I think it is the same sort of approach. So Porsche was the same you you don't present something unless everyone in the room has already seen it and had a chance to have a one to one discussion. thing I'm most proud of. So Wow. So there you were, head of Porsche financial services in the UK, introducing PCP against a tight deadline because it was going to be better for customers and obviously it was going to meet their regulatory requirements and lots of liaison with the headquarters in Stuttgart so operating at a pretty senior level

Steve Underwood:

Yeah, and enjoying it really enjoying it as well enjoy listened about the other markets. So when we have the semi annual get togethers with you know hear the guide man in America from Porsche's perspective and the Japanese and the Europeans it was it was always good and and there was a little bit of friendly competition between us as well. So the US was the biggest market by by some distance they were four times the size the UK, and we used to present our financials and who'd done the biggest volumes, what the highest penetration rates all those sorts of things, but it was it was friendly. There were there were a good bunch, and I'm still in contact with a few of them already.

Andy:

Now. It's good to hear. Okay, so if that was so good, why aren't you still there?

Steve Underwood:

Because VWFS took over.

Andy:

Okay, so

Steve Underwood:

it sounds a familiar story. So in I was actually in Stuttgart, on the day that VW literally saved Porsche financial services, Porsche full stop not just financial services. So at one stage, I was asked to put together a plan, how it woul look like if we took over VWFS. And because Porsche was trying to buy out VW at that stage, and then the recession hit, the cash ran out for all the financial instruments that effectively BB King and Holger Harter the CFO had done. This is my view of it. It may not be completely accurate, but from a distance how it was, and we were in the meeting when basically VW agreed to a 750 million euro loan to keep Porsche afloat and then very quickly after that, we were taken over so how Having gone from position of being I mean, I had the ultimate underwriter authority, I could control everything. Sounds familiar here. Maybe you are a Bond villain after all.

Andy:

Yeah, maybe I am, just just put a smile on my face. To go into go into investment, I had no underwriting authority at all. So when we were standalone company we use capital bank as our partners to do the daily operations stuff that was our cash it was our credit policy which they applied, but they did the actual day to day operational stuff. So there was

Steve Underwood:

Right, right. Sounds like the role was going eight of us in PFS in the UK. And there was about 40 people at Capital bank who would not necessarily 100% for us, but worked predominately including an amazing underwriting team, who have now all gone to Fry Financial Services in the UK, so they're lucky. And we were our own little business. And when we were highly profitable, and we my last year, we made 8 million pounds net profit, which eight of us was our target, our internal target was a million pound each. So we achieved that we had a really good team as well, though. Yeah, I would have done nothing without the team on that. And they were superb. And I think they appreciated again, my style of, of management has always been very much let's we're in this together. I keep on using the cog analogy that no matter what size cog the society says you are in any organisation, if one stops, you all stop and that's the way I literally was the way I approached it. And it was it was a it was a good time. But then at VWFS I had absolutely no power at all. I was I was a glorified regional manager or national sales manager for want of a better phrase. I couldn't underwrite I couldn't I couldn't approve a Boxster we had customers who VWFS was brilliantly set up for the business that they were set up to do. I mean, don't get me wrong, they were an amazing setup for say at Skoda and the like. What they what they weren't set up for that stage and and I don't know if this changed or not now, but the hybrid Porsche customers who weren't obviously didn't necessarily have a monthly income, but took annual dividends and those sort of things they they just had difficulty with those. And the speed of response was was obviously a lot slower while they tried to work out what they were doing. And I believe that the value setting was a different process. They they were always aligned to cap whereas we use an independent source so that they changed and there's just lots of little changes which my my bosses in Porsche in Germany negotiated a slightly delayed redundancy package if I wanted to take it. So I took it. to change beyond recognition. And yeah, from what you had been doing. Yeah. So you took it and on what did you do with it? I went to work for McLaren. So one of the Porsche dealers had been talking to McLaren about financial services, and recommended that they had a conversation with me, for which I will always be grateful. And then I went to McLaren. And we had a conversation, I had an interesting interview, which starts off with our customers don't need financial services. Why are you here?

Andy:

Was that a genuine question?

Steve Underwood:

I don't know. I've asked, I've asked the person several times, I haven't really got a straight answer. Okay. I think it was. I think it was deliberately provocative, but I'm not sure if that wasn't the actual the actual thought process of the company at the time, to which I answered the question simply, you're right. They don't need our finance probably. But we have to give them reasons to want to take it. And if we do that, there are benefits for us. So I kind of went through some bits and pieces, but it was interesting scenario. What have I done?

Andy:

I didn't invite me here.

Steve Underwood:

So I stayed there for five years, with literally a blank piece of paper to set up a global financial service operation

Andy:

That sounds like something that would be right up your street.

Steve Underwood:

Yeah, I it was good fun. For a good few years. The issues I always had was that obviously McLaren was a startup operation as well. So there was some, some reticence in some cases of dealing with the certainly in the UK less so in other markets. So for instance, I did go and see Alphera in the early days to see if they'd do a partner because clearly, we would never gonna have enough capital to have our own finance company, it was always going to be a white label operation. And we were told that the area was too grey and there's a whole list of reasons why they didn't want to do business with us but ultimately, it felt like we just weren't big enough volume and the risk was too high, in terms of one car went wrong, you've wiped out everything. That was voiced to me by a couple of other lenders in the marketplace today. But we didn't seem to have the same issue with with with partners in Germany or in the US, we seemed to do quite well out of those.

Andy:

Have you managed to answer for yourself why that might be?

Steve Underwood:

I think, I think ultimately the partner in Germany who's probably the best one was very much a bespoke type operation, so they're willing to kind of take a more wider view a more if you like more holistic view of the customer, what it could be, whereas I think the UK operations were very much process driven and couldn't quite see. So, typically, we would need a specialist underwriter or you need to have a much higher mandate underwriter to cover some of that business. So, you'd suddenly take it out of the process flow. So in the in the recent years, that kind of the technical process flow, you know, the system drives you to the next stage to the next stage. If it loops out of that it suddenly it means that you've got to have extra resource, you got to have extra skill sets and, and for the low volumes that we were going to have at that stage, it probably just didn't make any sense financially to do that, coupled with the fact that one fraud or one on one serious bad debt on the car disappears. And you know, you're out for 450,000 pounds.

Andy:

So you spent a good five years there an enjoyable five years, and you've moved quite a lot in well not quite a lot. I mean, it's a long. It's a long career, compared to some, let's compared to some, who've spent 20, 30 years in one organisation. And sometimes it's obvious, because like the VW financial services taking over Porsche financial services example, it just changed the job beyond recognition became something you didn't want to do. And I'm guessing you didn't see anything else within the organisation that would have given you what you wanted so has it generally been circumstances changing, or is there a time clock that you've got ticking?

Steve Underwood:

I think it was interesting. I think I have got a time clock that says when I see some boring how we're going to do the job. As in I can I feel I can do automated, that's probably the time that I need a new challenge. It would appear five years certainly at the maximum but yeah, potentially shorter. If it's even less interesting, if that makes sense. Yeah,

Andy:

Or if something comes in and changes it

Steve Underwood:

Yeah. Both the McLaren and my current role, I've had kind of little sidesteps at some stage as well, where I've had additional responsibilities. And been both for both companies the FD of the sales and marketing division. So I'm not an accountant. I'm not qualified as an accountant. I'm probably not accountant illiterate, but I'm not I'm not an expert in any way, shape, or form. But I've been asked to do that, ironically, by the same person twice, who was at McLaren and then Aston Martin to look after that role, because I think I can manage the numerical side, but with the commercial side, as opposed to just being straightforward. The balance sheet says that all the spreadsheet says this, I can manage the two together. It's not something I typically enjoy doing. But it's something I've done twice.

Andy:

Yes. And did you not enjoy it because of the nature of the work or because it was in addition to your day job,

Steve Underwood:

bit of both if that makes sense. It was hard work. And it was a lot of spreadsheets. And that's not necessarily my favourite. And it took me away from people. But also because it meant that because I was trying to do two roles, it meant that I wasn't giving financial services to full focus. And that was frustrating.

Andy:

Yeah. So you mentioned you like the dealers, you mentioned then it took you away from people so and you have you like partnerships that are structured, according to how you like to structure partnerships. Do you enjoy the people side and the relationship side?

Steve Underwood:

yeah. Yeah, I do. Many, many years ago, I read a book about emotional quotient EQ, probably, I'm thinking probably early 2000s. And it's something I thought I could relate to that. And so I've always had this very simple model that I always want to manage people how I'd like to be managed. And I like to be managed with like, this is what we're trying to achieve. This is what we're going to do in terms of an end goal. Think about how you're gonna go and do it, how are you going to achieve that? How are you going to be successful. And that's, that's what I like to do with with people that I recruit. And, and to be fair, I probably recruit people in my own image nowadays. I would hate to be micromanaged. And I would hate to have to micromanage someone.

Andy:

So by in your own image, I don't put words in your mouth, but I interpret that as people who are going to respond well, to that style of leadership. Yeah, they're not sort of mini-mes of you, but they are, they would appreciate that type of leader.

Steve Underwood:

And, and part of that also requires them to say, actually, Steve, you're you're doing this wrong, or I don't agree with this, Steve, because and as long as there's because I don't mind. I mean, our team meetings, we have fairly open debates about all sorts of things that we do and don't do and should do and shouldn't do, and why. And I've never been one to say it just because it's I think this is the right idea. I've always, I'd like to think and I think that I think my team, well I think my team tell me that they they feel very comfortable saying actually that's a stupid idea. And this is a much better way of doing it.

Andy:

Yeah, yeah. So you have it sounds like you have constructive conflict, what Patrick Lencioni calls constructive conflict in your meetings where people challenge the idea without the individual feeling that they're being attacked personally.

Steve Underwood:

Absolutely.

Andy:

And I think the ability to do to be able to do that to be comfortable as the leader of the team, with your ideas being challenged, you have to be quite comfortable with who you are. What do you put it down to that sense of knowing yourself well enough, being comfortable enough with who you are that you don't identify with an idea so if someone kicks your idea, they're not kicking you? Where does that come from? For you?

Steve Underwood:

I think I think I first say that started with with full credit to a certain extent with Peter de Rousset-Hall who and also maybe even when I was a zone manager, one of my the regional manager I had then would always listen to ideas. And I've never been afraid to voice my views. I think as long as I always justify why I think something, see it as a kind of learning point. So I think you're wrong, because I think I'll do it this way, because this is what I think is the logic behind it. And then then people will say, actually what you've just said, You've missed a really important bit out. Or there's other factors that you're unaware of, which means that we'd need to do it back my way. But I've never been afraid to actually ask those questions and say what I feel and I've been lucky to have managers who have been willing to listen to that and say, and not take it personally. And therefore, I think you get to a stage where actually, I think I'm reasonably experienced in what I do now. I've been doing it for car finance 27 years, I think I've seen most things, and there are a lot of our industry is cyclical. That doesn't mean to say that it's ever, it's always gonna be the same. But what it does mean is that the big picture, I have a pretty clear view of, it's a case of sometimes an implementation or how things are changed, or with the regulation or whatever, I just need. People say, actually, that we can't do that, or we don't want to do that, or is that the best thing to do? That's the phrase I like, my team are very good at saying, is that the best thing we could do?

Andy:

I love it,

Steve Underwood:

because invariably it ends up being the right thing to do. Because

Andy:

So there's that's the that triggers a further conversation in the team meeting about maybe some other ideas.

Steve Underwood:

Absolutely. Yeah. It was, when I, when I first started Porsche, the thing that I found most difficult for moving for number two, when I was at Hitachi to being the MD was that everyone expected me to have an opinion about everything. And you could just sit there and just absorb. I mean, I don't think I'm the sort of person who puts myself out there. I said, Peter de Rousset-Hall has charisma. And and he does. That's That's not me. I understand. That's not me. But I do. I do like the idea of listening and absorbing and then saying, I'm quite good at if we have a view like, ajoin an open question. I'm not one of those managers he goes into, right? Well, this is the question that I think that I always want to be the last one. And it might be that my views changed from my first thought to what the team has said, because I've listened and actually that makes a lot of sense. And surrounded myself with a with an excellent team who know their stuff, and who are very vocal about what they think is the right thing and try and figure out trying to do things differently. I mean, we have at the moment, yes, very clearly stated that Aston Martin wants to be an ultra luxury brand. What does that mean? When we're selling money, ultimately. But our general view is that we need to make it in a way that we can deal with a customer how they want to be dealt with. So that might mean they want more information, they might want less information, they want a bespoke service, they want to be able to ring somebody up at eight o'clock at night and get a quote, what does that mean? So they're they're just kind of some obvious discussions that we're having in the moment. And what's what's best. To our mind, we cannot be one size fits all. And we've really got to think about what that means. And that's what that's where we are we have some great discussions. I mean, our team meetings invariably talk about what happened to the Formula One, because our two of our team love it, and two of us not so fussed. So we need but we felt we ought to keep up to date. So we always find out what's going on. And then we have these debates, which four of us can nearly go on for an hour and a half. But the value of those and the stuff we get out of them. It's just so important for the rest of the week.

Andy:

Yeah, no, that sounds good. It was big week, this week for Aston Martin Formula One team with Seb Vettel having his last race and it was really great to see the tributes that were coming in. We've segwayed nicely into what you're doing now. And the fact that you're at Aston Martin, can we just explain the transition from McLaren to Aston Martin? How did that come about?

Steve Underwood:

So I left McLaren and did some consultancy for two years ultimately. One of those big consulting projects was with Aston Martin, and at the request of the CFO, the then CFO who was the previous CFO at McLaren. So he basically asked me to come along and do some help. I also did some work with a broker, which was really interesting about their strategy, UK broker. And I enjoyed enjoyed that a lot, great people again, some really good customer service ideas as well, which I, I can't say I've pinched, but I certainly think i've developed. So that was good. But But ultimately, the irony was a lot of the consulting was based around trying to prove to Aston Martin they needed some financial services help, they had one junior person in the role who I've never met. So I've no idea what they did or what they didn't do. When I joined in 2017, there wasn't much to build upon. So it was cool. In many ways. It was revisiting the McLaren kind of project. But this time with a, with a brand that actually had a little bit more volume and a little bit more history. And therefore it's far easier. And in the UK it's obviously no secret that we use Alphera as our partner have done since 2010. So a long standing partnership, really enjoyed working with these people, and influencing again through third party, third party management, if that makes sense, but influencing what they do, how they do it. And I think that we've seen some pretty positive results following on from that. And then just developing the global proposition if you like,

Andy:

let's talk about what that means because it sounds very exciting. You've got now global responsibility. How does that you know what does it actually look like for you? What what sort of things are you getting up to

Steve Underwood:

so so effectively, it's making sure that we've got an operation in the key markets where we feel we support the sale of Aston Martin, we always say that our job is to support the sale of Aston Martins and help customers buy them. So to try to take the dealer and the customer, as separate entities if you like, and then try to work out how we are best for both, which don't don't always work, it doesn't it's sometimes there's conflict. But ultimately, it's about if the end customer satisfied, the dealer is going to be relatively satisfied, we very much focus on not so much process, but the customer experience, I guess, again, making sure that dealers have all the right tools to do the jobs making sure that customers aware what they need to be aware of. But also, ideally, to feel that they get something that they couldn't get from anyone else. Whether it's an element of surprise and delight on service, or whether it's just a great deal. Because obviously, you would expect that any manufacturer would want to make sure their RVs are the strongest, that rates are competitive, you know, we're never gonna be the cheapest, why should we but to get a good deal, and to make sure that they are the customers feeling pleased that they've got something extra. And then obviously from any any manufacturer, finance company, adds then to manufacture the ability to get better renewals, retention, customer satisfaction, and that will help us build the picture. So I think what we do is that we've made financial services a part of the sales process in terms of thinking, not not in a rigid slot, this is us. But in terms of you know, we are a valuable tool to all the dealers in all our key markets. And that varies. I mean, I say to my team, 80% of it is the same everywhere around the world, it is the 20% difference is the key, whether it's a technical difference, or whether it's a customer cultural difference or

Andy:

right. So you have Yeah, so there's standardisation for 80% and then 20% personalization to the market. Yeah,

Steve Underwood:

well, as you said, PCP and lease pretty much do the same thing. But they are different. It's that the slight difference is the key part

Andy:

Yeah. And what are the things that are in the public domain that you're able to talk about that Aston Martin are doing now which will be interesting for me and our listeners to hear about?

Steve Underwood:

Well, I mean, it's pretty clearly we as a as an overall company that we want to move into the ultra luxury sector and have been doing so to be fair. And one of the things that I think the Lawrence's is made very clear, Lawrence Stroll since he joined or purchased the company in 2020 is to manage supply and demand, which obviously is good for residual values, which we've done. And one of the few if only benefit of COVID was that that helped by closing the factories. And so the supply has managed to realise more quickly than perhaps we hoped, and that's been made very clear and or the investor presentations that that Lawrence has done. And then also slowly but surely evolving into an EV strategy as well. So, again, we've made it clear 2025 will be our first EV, or at least be announced in 2025 will be our first EV. And that's going to be an interesting challenge for us. Because I mean, any manufacturer in our segment is very emotional. And I am curious to see how silent cars are fairly silent cars evolve into a emotive state when you're used to putting the foot down on a V12, it's gonna be interesting challenge for our engineers.

Andy:

Yeah, you're probably have a brand that is at the far end of the spectrum in terms of engines and appealing to the auditory senses more than more than many. I mean, up there with others. But yeah, it's a bigger journey to to that EV than for some.

Steve Underwood:

And then And then obviously, we've got our first SUV. That is obviously new to Aston Martin, a different segment. I mean, Porsche benefited greatly from the Cayenne, and Lamborghini, I say from the Urus. Now we've joined that family. Again, it's been made public that you know, we see current volumes, half of our sales to be SUV and half to be sports cars.

Andy:

Yeah, change happening, following what customers want.

Steve Underwood:

Yeah, definitely. And then obviously, the bit I can't go too much into detail. But obviously then you look about what that might mean for us as financial services as well, in terms of do customers buying habits change? Do they want different things from financial services? Do do we look at subscription? Do we do look at all these other kinds of models that are out there? Or is it more of the same? It's something that we are, we're looking at closely?

Andy:

I'm not going I know you won't be answering me so I'm not probe there, but very understandable that you are looking at what it means for financial services. Is there anything I haven't asked you, Steve, that you think I've missed out on an opportunity to you know, hear something from your story?

Steve Underwood:

No, I can't think of any particularly. Except that there are things that I've been very proud of. And I think that I have learned a lot for some very good people. We talk about managing careers and doing the right things. But I I am lucky that I have been in the right place at the right time in many cases. And that has a lot to do with it. I think it's useful to better watch people and one of the things that I quite like Like about taking just taking a step back and looking at watching people is what can you see? And what can you learn from them? And how do they approach different things? As I said, I'm never going to be the one to stand in the front of the queue, saying what I think about stuff, I am definitely more like the one to sit back and to say, actually, yeah, I agree with that. I don't agree with that. If I'm forced to put on the spot, then I'll make my views known first. But I would prefer always to have a considered view of things. And I think that's, that's really important, especially when historically whenever I've been in the financial services company, there's, and there's a separate financial services company and a separate manufacturer or sales side, there's always been this antagonism between the two. I don't get that now. And I didn't get that McLaren. Because we are, we're not a separate company, we are a division within the wider unit. But it does mean that I have to understand perhaps a bit more where the people in the organisation are coming from, which means I have to listen, I have to learn about lots of different things that I wouldn't necessarily have to worry about, rather than just saying, Well, I've got a P&L target of x, and I'm going to deliver that. And if it comes at your expense as an OEM or it comes at the customer expense, I'm not so fussed. Whereas now it's I've got to have that more holistic view.

Andy:

So do you feel less siloed?

Steve Underwood:

Yes, I would say I do. I'm not siloed into financial services. I have to understand what the sales and marketing team are doing. And I have to understand a bit about what engineering are doing and is production, okay, the wider financial state of the company, I have a lot of input into my my role. And then so then you have to filter out what's important, what's really important, and then work out what does that then mean for me in the team.

Andy:

No, that makes a lot of sense. Because if you're, if you're providing finance to the dealers, and because of supply constraints, manufacturing can't deliver new cars to the dealers, then they haven't got new cars to sell. And that's going to have a knock on impact on you. So all makes sense. Tesla was the same experience for me, because financial services was just a department in the company that was similar in that regard. And a lot more just cross functional support and focus and accelerated, I suppose, or emphasised by the fact that it's all hands on deck to try to get something up and running. But you probably have similar in in Aston Martin, it's small and, or relatively small. And,

Steve Underwood:

and it's interesting as well, because it means you do have to take a wider company view and you do learn lots of stuff, and you see different approaches as well. And especially I would say as Aston is a much more multicultural company than has been over the last three, four years. And we have lots of engineers from from different companies, from other different companies come to join Aston Martin have different views of life. It's been it's been quite intriguing.

Andy:

Well, thank you very much Steve, it's been very enjoyable to hear your story I, I love being able to see, you know, the thread, if you like that runs the way through it from being in the bank. And then in Ford credit and how you particularly favour a certain partnership style, leadership style management style, you like to work in a certain way you like having control, and how you've had a number of opportunities over the years to set things up from a blank sheet of paper. And how that really lends itself to what you like doing and that sometimes things have happened and you've had to move and sometimes you've chosen to move because we were stopped feeling challenged so much by the role that you were doing. So thanks again for sharing your journey with us so that we can reflect on your experiences and potentially learn from the insights that we have whilst listening. So thank you.

Steve Underwood:

Thank you to you too.

Andy:

You've been listening to Career-view Mirror with me, Andy Follows. I hope you found some helpful points to reflect on in Steve's story that can help you with your own career journey, or that of those you lead, parent or mentor. You are unique. And during my conversation with Steve, you'll have picked up on topics that resonate with you. A few things that stood out for me, were the magic that happens when you identify something that you like doing like when he and his friend did their research project on the Egyptians, how he didn't know what to do on leaving university and picked the safer option which was a job at the bank. And whilst it was a conservative choice, it's led to an interesting career with multiple brands and he hasn't been afraid to move, knowing how he likes to be given space to come up with his own solutions towards an agreed objective rather than being micromanaged and that he applies the same approach with his own teams. The great lesson from Mike Bannister at Ford which taught Steve an approach that he has subsequently cascaded to his team members. The idea of managing team members how they want to be managed and how that translates to serving customers how they want to be served to create an ultra luxury experience. Steve's attitude towards partnerships sharing the objectives and genuinely working together to achieve them. You can contact Steve via LinkedIn, and we'll put a link in the show notes to this episode. We publish these episodes to celebrate my guests careers, listen to their stories and learn from their experiences. And I am genuinely interested in what resonated with you. Thank you to all of you for sharing your feedback. Thanks also to Hannah and Julia, who as part of the Career-view Mirror team here at Aquilae works so hard to deliver these episodes to you. Thanks for listening

Welcome, family and school
University and the desire to train as a dentist dashed by A level results
Post university job applications result in a position at Barclays Bank
Indirect people management
From Barclays to Zone Manager for Ford Credit
Moving to Brentwood, Head Office of Ford Credit and working with Ford of Europe
Approached by Charter Trust but too much micromanaging for his liking
Applying for role with Fleet Lease and setting up Nova Vehicle Finance
Appointed Business Develpment Director for Hitachi Capital Vehicle Solutions
Approached by Porsche to become the Managing Director of Porsche Financial Services GB
Volkswagen Financial Services takeover and accepting a redundancy package
Starting with McLaren
Being comfortable with who you are
Move from McLaren to Aston Martin
Wrapping up and takeaways