Paul Flitter: Combining corporate and family business experience with a focus on people and customers to run the longest serving Aston Martin dealership in the world.

Paul Flitter is the Chief Operating Officer of HWM a privately owned dealer group based in Walton on Thames, Surrey, England representing brands such as Caterham, HWM Sports Cars and Aston Martin. HWM have the proud accolade of being the longest serving Aston Martin dealership in the world.

Paul’s automotive career spans 25 years working for both PLC and Owner/Driver dealerships collaborating with brands such as BMW/MINI, Aston Martin, Alfa Romeo, Jeep and Chrysler across Aftersales, Sales and Financial Services functions within a dealer environment.

He's a widely experienced customer centric leader within the automotive space with a demonstrable and proven track record in Retail Sales, Dealership management, cultivating OEM relationships and Financial Services all within premium and luxury automotive brand representation.

In our conversation we talk about how he didn't have a clear direction during his school days but once he had a vision he was able to work towards it. Paul shares how by finding mentors and gaining the experience they recommended he was able to begin his automotive career. Paul is a people focussed leader who believes that businesses who take care of their people benefit from stability and motivated team members.

I very much enjoyed getting to know Paul through this conversation and look forward to hearing what resonates with you.

If you're listening for the first time, hello, I'm Andy Follows. I help business owners and executives to enable Fulfilling Performance for themselves and those they lead and care about. If you'd like to know more about Fulfilling Performance, check out: Release the handbrake! - The Fulfilling Performance Hub. In it you will find easily digestible ideas on how to increase levels of performance and fulfilment for yourself and those you lead and care about.

Connect with Paul
LinkedIn: Paul Flitter

HWM Aston Martin
HWM Sports Cars

About Andy Follows

Andy is an experienced business leader and a passionate developer of people in the automotive finance industry, internationally.

During over twenty years, he has played a key role in developing businesses including Alphabet UK, BMW Corporate Finance UK, BMW Financial Services Singapore, BMW Financial Services New Zealand and Tesla Financial Services UK. 

At the same time, he has coached individuals and delivered leadership development programmes in 17 countries across Asia, Europe and North America.

He started Aquilae in 2016 to enable “Fulfilling Performance” in the mobility industry, internationally.

Connect with Andy
LinkedIn: Andy Follows

Aquilae Academy Guided Peer Mentoring
Email: academy@aquilae.co.uk

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Episode recorded on 5 June, 2024.

Transcript

Paul Flitter: 0:00

I got a sort of reality check and a welcome reality check from Duncan saying well, joining a business like BMW GB at Bracknell is devilishly hard. We get 1000 CVs a week that tell us that you know that you're passionate you're keen to learn. And at the moment Paul, you haven't got anything that differentiates you from those other 1000 applicants.

Aquilae: 0:27

Welcome to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR, the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers to share insights to help you with your own journey. Here's your host, Andy Follows.

Andy Follows: 0:58

Hello, listeners, Andy here. Thank you for tuning in. We appreciate that you do. We're also very grateful for our guests who generously join me to create these episodes so that we can celebrate their careers listen to their stories, and learn from their experiences. In this episode, we're celebrating the career to date of Paul Flitter. Paul is the Chief Operating Officer of HWM, a privately owned dealer group based in Walton on Thames, Surrey, England, representing brands such as Caterham, HWM sports cars and Aston Martin. HWM have the proud accolade of being the longest serving Aston Martin dealership in the world. Paul's automotive career spans 25 years working for both PLC and owner driver dealerships collaborating with brands such as BMW Mini, Aston Martin, Alfa Romeo, Jeep and Chrysler across after sales, sales and financial services functions within a dealer environment. He's a widely experienced customer centric leader within the automotive space with a demonstrable and proven track record in retail sales, dealership management, cultivating OEM relationships and financial services all within premium and luxury automotive brand representation. In our conversation, we talk about how he didn't have a clear direction during his school days. But once he had a vision, he was able to work towards it. Paul shares how by finding mentors and gaining the experience they recommended, he was able to begin his automotive career. Paul's a people focused leader who believes that businesses who take care of their people benefit from stability and motivated team members. I very much enjoyed getting to know Paul through this conversation and look forward to hearing what resonates with you. If you're listening for the first time. Hello, I'm Andy Follows I help business owners and executives to enable Fulfilling Performance for themselves and those they lead and care about. If you'd like to know more about Fulfilling Performance, you can sign up for our weekly newsletter. In it you'll find easily digestible ideas on how to increase levels of performance and fulfilment for yourself and those you lead and care about. Go to Andyfollows.substack.com, or use the link in the show notes to this episode. If you listen to podcasts like CAREER-VIEW MIRROR, I'm guessing that you recognise you can learn from other people. When I'm not recording these conversations with inspiring individuals. You'll find me facilitating guided peer mentoring teams in our Aquilae Academy, we bring together small groups of business owners and senior leaders from non competing organisations and create a virtual environment in which they can get to know and trust each other and share and support each other with their current challenges. If that sounds interesting, email academy@aquilae.co.uk. And we'll send you more details. You'll find that address in the show notes to this episode. Hello, Paul, and welcome. And where are you coming to us from today?

Paul Flitter: 3:57

Hi, Andy, I'm coming to you from my office in the dealership in Walton on Thames, which is about 10 miles outside of London.

Andy Follows: 4:07

Well thank you very much indeed for joining me. And I'm looking forward as we get towards the latter part of this conversation to hearing a little bit more about where you're sitting in the business because it's a very special business. But first, as I do with all my guests, I want to transport you back in time to when you were born. Where was it? Where were you born? Where did you arrive on planet Earth,

Paul Flitter: 4:27

I was born in a place called Wroughton in Wiltshire in the south of England, which is Salisbury, Swindon way. My father was was in the Royal Air Force for many years so spent quite a lot of his time moving around the world effectively and then settled in in Wroughton because there were lots of RAF bases around the area like Brize Norton and that's where I was hatched, and we quite quickly moved so I don't have any sort of memories of Wroughton but we quite quickly moved then up to Norfolk,

Andy Follows: 5:01

right, and what was your father doing in the RAF? What sort of a role did he have?

Paul Flitter: 5:06

Yeah, so it was interesting. So he was, he was an only child and effectively left home at 15 and became an RAF apprentice, quite a famous channel of apprenticeships through a base called RAF Halton, which is where all the apprentices went. So he started off as an apprentice, and he got an incredible interest in aircraft and computers. And IT as it as it evolved, I think, in time, and he left in 1986. So by the time I was kind of eight or nine, he'd already had a kind of 25 year career in the Royal Air Force and left as a chief technician.

Andy Follows: 5:46

Right. And what about your mum? Did she work? Or was she looking after their family?

Paul Flitter: 5:51

So my mum's kind of always worked, they've been called sort of quite a formidable force growing up, I think, and, and certainly as growing up, I remember, dad, sort of getting up very early, and going out to work as most dads do. And I was always sort of fascinated with the concept of work and him sort of polishing his shoes with an inch of his life as he had to do in the military. And so I have fond memories of that, but my mum has always sort of worked, I think in and around when we were growing up. So I've got an older brother, who's three and a half years older than me. So yeah, I'm the youngest of two. So yeah but my mum's always had jobs, looking after show homes for housing developments to care homes, to flower shops to various things. So she's always worked, I think in and around different stages of mine and my brother's life as we've been growing up. And it's become more feasible for us to be at home and not to be picked up at school and that sort of stuff.

Andy Follows: 6:53

You saw her then doing a variety of different things once you were old enough to be left and she had a bit more freedom back, if you'd like to go and get external work. You saw her doing that, and you saw aspects of your father's role in terms of the discipline and preparation, getting those boots clean to meet all those standards. And you had an elder brother as well. Has he influenced you at all?

Paul Flitter: 7:17

Yeah, completely. Yeah. Growing up like lots of brothers. He was a sort of hero. I guess he was driving first. He was doing exams first. And I think growing up, I always felt like yeah, I sort of had a degree of envy, I think of him of always getting to, you know, stay up late and go out first. And you know, sleepover. And so yeah, a bit of a hero of mine growing up, but funny how the relationship changes as you as you grow older, but I've always admired him and looked up to him.

Andy Follows: 7:49

So let's go to school. Tell me what your teachers how they described you.

Paul Flitter: 7:55

Oh dear. I would say I guess like many people, I enjoyed school, particularly my kind of primary and junior school, I really enjoyed it. I think looking back classes were much smaller, probably back then. And as I got into junior school I had a wonderful relationship with the teacher and my mother and father were on the kind of PTA and the parents Teacher Association. So they were quite sort of involved with the school as well, at every point. And that goes for when we lived back in Norfolk. And when we lastly moved to Hampshire, when I was about eight or nine, as I say, when my my father came out of the RAF. So my teachers, I think, would probably describe and it was it was interesting at a recent birthday party that I had, my mum had dug out all of my school reports and had them framed. And there was, I laugh now, but there was definitely a common theme as has the ability, but sometimes lacks the application, which looking back was a fair cop.

Andy Follows: 9:06

I love that. And you mentioned your parents being quite involved in school in the Parent Teacher Association. What sort of expectations did you feel, you know, a lot of expectation on you, or was it highly supportive? What What are your thoughts on that? Or recollections?

Paul Flitter: 9:24

Yeah, it's interesting that you know looking back, I didn't feel any additional expectation. I just remember that. You know, my father and my mother. And particularly, my father was involved in all sorts of fundraising and fetes and he would always sort of get involved. So I think if anything, it sort of helped sort of bridge the relationship between me and the school, particularly in junior school because I joined a junior school sort of halfway through the second year, I guess. So that was kind of my new school when, as I say, we moved from Norfolk to Fleet in Hampshire and getting involved with the school felt like the right thing to do, I think to, you know, to develop that relationship.

Andy Follows: 10:06

Yeah. And at what point in school did you start to have any preferences in terms of subjects or any idea what direction you might go in.

Paul Flitter: 10:15

I always found the academic side of school challenging, I tended to excel in subjects that I enjoyed. And particularly, I found it useful that where I'd got struck up a good relationship with the teacher and I remember struggling like mad in maths and I wanted to do so well at maths because I knew how important it would be in later life. But I just, I just struggled with it. So I was lucky enough to get setted with a wonderful teacher. And he sort of opened my eyes to it and kind of unlocked the potential and just said, Look, you know, we, I know there's a class of 30 other kids, but I'm gonna look after you. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna make you make you see it. And I'm, I'm pleased he did that.

Andy Follows: 11:00

That's really good to hear. And it's not the first time in these conversations. In fact, many times people single out teachers and what an influence they have, what a potentially life changing impact a good teacher can have. What was his name Paul?

Paul Flitter: 11:18

his name was John Chivers, or Mr. Chivers as it was then.

Andy Follows: 11:23

Good old Mr. Chivers.

Paul Flitter: 11:24

Yeah. Good guy.

Andy Follows: 11:25

So tell me about your thoughts as you were coming towards the end of school?

Paul Flitter: 11:30

Yeah, so I was conscious that a lot of my peers and friends were making what felt like grounded decisions, and that I didn't really have those. I knew the subjects that I liked, and the subject subjects that I was kind of good at. But I think, you know, looking back, I kind of drifted a little bit during those years, I didn't, I didn't really know what I want wanted to do. And I think from a career point of view, I kind of made my mind up that I wanted to be a policeman, I wanted to join the police force at that time, I thought, well, it sounded like a great thing. And I was lucky enough to gain work experience with the local force a couple of times, actually. And they were very helpful in in taking me on and opening my eyes to what police work was kind of like through the eyes of a 14 15 year old boy. So that that was exciting.

Andy Follows: 12:22

Right. So you hadn't necessarily really worked out what you want to do. But then you say the police started to emerge as an attractive option for you.

Paul Flitter: 12:33

Yeah, absolutely. I think I was drawn to it by a sort of, again, a 14 year old boy looking on the outside thinking well, yeah, traffic police looks like like, like a good gig. I can drive round fast and nick people for speeding and all the other things that so I was definitely drawn to it. But probably naively from a sort of like I say, a naive perspective, rather than what it actually takes to, to be a proper policeman so I probably underestimated it.

Andy Follows: 13:04

Right. And when did you start to then think have second thoughts about that? How far did you get in the process of joining the police service,

Paul Flitter: 13:12

so not very far. So I'd managed to do a couple of work experiences, first of all through school, and then in Further Education, I left secondary school with not outstanding grades, but kind of grades enough, I suppose to enable me to go on to further education. So a Sixth Form College. But even when I joined Sixth Form College, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. And I ended up doing a course called leisure and tourism, which I was never really interested by I never, I never really felt engaged. And in fact, I left that course halfway through, I just had something inside me that just kind of wanted to get out and work. And I thought, well, I probably messed the whole school thing up a little bit, the education bit. And that was probably the epiphany moment really, that I probably just needed to get out and do some work. So the Police thing was kind of something that I wanted to work towards. But looking back, I probably never really achieved the grades to sort of do it. So I've never really got off the ground with it, frankly.

Andy Follows: 14:18

So what did you do when you decided to leave college? What did you do them?

Paul Flitter: 14:22

Well, I mean, I winged it for a bit much to my mother and father's not that I would say distress but there was definitely a moratorium of kind of doing nothing, which my mother and father were hugely supportive in reminding me that that couldn't last forever. And I needed to go and yeah, I need to go and find a job. So yeah, that's exactly what happened. So out of school, I started to work in hospitality and bars and ended up working in a local restaurant. It was a pub restaurant just outside of Fleet working with a friend who had kind of got me the job and that was kind of my first foray into hard work and extremely long shifts, and not much pay. But it was a great big learning curve and great fun looking back as well.

Andy Follows: 15:12

How long did you do that for Paul?

Paul Flitter: 15:14

Well, I did it for about a year. So I mean, it was gruelling, I mean, I absolutely had the energy. And let's say the get up and go at that point, I was probably about 18 or 19, I guess. It was a hugely useful time. Very, very hard work long days as I say, and the pub was kind of the sort of number one, I guess we'd call them gastropubs now here in the UK, that it was busy, lunchtime service right into the evening, you know, with an hour and a half break. So invariably, 18 hour days for about three and a half quid a week. But you know, I just wanted to work and I said, I do everything for nothing, but just give us a job. So

Andy Follows: 15:56

what cause you to leave? And you know, what was your next step?

Paul Flitter: 16:00

One of the interesting things about working in a pub, and particularly a village pub, is that you meet and get to talk to a load of fantastic people, in fact, right, yeah, right throughout my life and career, I just love talking to people. And I found that talking to people in the pub and talking to locals about their lives and their careers. And they always seem to sort of, you know, finish work at four o'clock on a Friday and come down to the pub and settle in for three hours and then disappear for dinner and then come back. And it just sort of felt like yeah, like a great thing. So I was talking to those guys about their careers. And I was lucky to get some advice from I mean, effectively a customer in terms of what a CV should look like, and what he did and what his career was. So he said, look, I'll meet you at my house, come up and see me and we'll have a cup of tea, and we'll go through it. So again, that was kind of first bit of external advice I guess other than from my own father where somebody had given up their time and invested and frankly, didn't have to, but he said, Well, you know, let's sit down and go through it. And I was very grateful for that.

Andy Follows: 17:13

Bit of mentoring

Paul Flitter: 17:14

completely. Yeah.

Andy Follows: 17:16

And sometimes it's easier to hear it from people who aren't our parents.

Paul Flitter: 17:20

Yeah, for sure. So I'm talking about a roundabout 1996. Now, sort of mid 90s, there was a an incredible boom in the UK for mobile phones. So mobile phones aren't what they are today. I mean, they were kind of in their infancy. And there were lots of people that were curious about mobile phones, not everybody had them. And one of the chaps that would come down after work to the pub in the village was a chap who I admired and I'm still in touch with today, a chap called Graham Ford, and he owned the mobile phone shop in Fleet, a cool guy had a young family. And he made everything looked fun, and interesting and effortless. So again, it was a person that a I had respect for. But yeah, I admired the way that he just approached everything. And it just, it just it was like everybody's friend, even with dealing with customers. It was like, do you know all these people, Graham, so that was a useful lesson. So through talking to him, I'd realised that he had recruited somebody and that hadn't worked out. And again, it was a kind of sliding door moment. I just said to Graham, well, look, I'm up for something. You know, I begged him as he walked out the pub. Yeah, I'll do everything for nothing. I love phones. I love technology. I was already a customer of his at that point as well. So we'd already met and he said, Well, yeah, fine. Look, the person who we've recruited hasn't worked out. So why don't you come up and have a chat? So I left hospitality for the for the world of mobile phones.

Andy Follows: 18:55

Because you you asked, you asked for the opportunity, you saw the opportunity, and you stuck your hand up for it quite strongly.

Paul Flitter: 19:04

Yeah I think looking back on that I'm not sure if it was an opportunity, it's probably just sort of a chance really, it was it was an opportunity, just a talk to him. And it might have resulted in a flat No, but like a lot of these things.

Andy Follows: 19:18

I'm glad you said that you recognised that the relationship in itself is an opportunity knowing this person who has a business in a field that I've got some interest in. That's the opportunity there doesn't need to be an advert posted on that window for me to ask. And the worst thing that can happen is I get a flat No. So how was life in the glamorous world of mobile phone sales in the 1990s?

Paul Flitter: 19:44

Well do you know it was it was very good. And again, reflecting back and I probably didn't know at the time, but I learned a huge amount. And I don't know whether I was sort of compensating for my less than adequate time at school. But I would say Just had a thirst to learn stuff. And Graham was very, very generous with his time and made things look very, very easy. But I mean, frankly, in the mid 90s, everybody needed a mobile phone and I guess Fleet had some growing business parks, which we did brilliant business with, in and around the sort of outskirts of Fleet. There was definitely a growth of business parks and what I would call retail customers as well that were inquisitive and wanting to find out more about phones. So one of the big takeaways I got about that, apart from working with a small team was that what I was learning with Graham, watching him was qualification and a sales process. And again, I didn't know it at the time, but it was asking questions, understanding the customer, understanding what they need, what they want, what they want to achieve, and then finding a solution in a collaborative way to fulfil that need, and then completing the sale. Back then it probably felt like I say we were shelling peas, it's probably that's probably an exaggeration, but I just felt like well, everybody's coming to buy a mobile phone. But but in actually in reality, everybody who came through our door, wanted to find out more around mobile phones, some people had scepticism, and some people just wanting to buy one. But everybody had different needs and requirements. So I learned a huge amount from Graham on that shop floor.

Andy Follows: 21:33

There's something you said there, which I'd like to go back on, which was things you've learned from you learnt a lot in those days, but you might not necessarily realised it at the time. And I think that is, that's wonderful there are every day, we have experiences, whoever we are, however, whatever we did at school, whatever age we left school, whatever we went to do, every single one of us has experiences every day. And whether we choose to learn from those or whether we're able to derive benefit from those depends on whether we reflect on them. We extract the learning, and then we think, Okay, what am I going to do differently in future based on that, but often it doesn't, you know, the stuff we were learning in our 20s that at the time, we weren't doing that reflection, we were just, you know, trying to figure things out and make some money and get things done. And then looking back a little bit later, sometimes quite a lot later, we realised Wow, there was a lot of stuff. I was learning like qualification. I wonder whether at the time you thought, Oh, this is good. I'm learning qualification skills from Greg. I suspect. Yes, it wasn't quite as like that. As you say. It's later you realise that you learnt a lot about qualification from just watching him complete his job?

Paul Flitter: 22:51

Yes. Yeah, exactly. And, frankly, watching him and doing it myself. I mean, I didn't assimilate any of those parts of a sales process with yeah with what I was doing. I mean, in my 19 year old head self, I was just talking to people selling something that I loved.

Andy Follows: 23:10

Yeah. And so what came after that?

Paul Flitter: 23:13

Well it's interesting. Again, it was another sliding doors moment. And again, Graham at the mobile phone shop, he always seemed to know everybody and whether whether he did or not, I don't know. It was just his way. I'm not sure. But it was very well. And if you forgive the pun, he was well connected, I guess, around the local area. Anyway, a customer walked in there's a chap, who is hugely influential, certainly in my career. And in my life, somebody who, who I've admired, a customer came in and said, Well, look, I need to upgrade my phone. What do you mean you need to upgrade your phone? Well, yeah. So I've had this for a year. And I was used to people really, at that time, taking out new contracts rather than upgrading. So he was a sort of pioneer that he was already upgrading at that time anyway. So I got chatting to him in the usual way. And he was telling me about his career. And he said, Well, yeah, I'm worked at a BMW dealer up in a village called Odiham. It's not there anymore. It's a place called Hampshire Cars, which are typical village BMW dealer, I guess, going back but they look quite different from what they are today. And he had just joined what was then BMW GB Ltd at Bracknell, and he was probably in his mid sort of 20s, I guess, 26 27 and he sort of pulled up in a V36 convertible. So I don't know about 97 on the R in green with pink interior or something. And it was it was ghastly looking back on it, but I thought it was pretty cool back then. And I said, Well, look, you know, I'd love to have a chat with you, his name's Duncan Forrester has been hugely instrumental and like I say, influential in My life and my career and always been a sounding board at various T junctions in my career and stuff. So I said, Look, I know where you live, because I've got your address, Duncan, can we meet and have a beer, I knew the pub at the end of his road, which is about 150 yards from where he lived, because I wanted to make it easy for him, I said well why don't we meet there, and we'll have a beer and he said, Alright, let's have a beer. And he was able to put me straight on a few things. And I kind of probably again, naively assumed by talking to Duncan that it would probably open and open some doors for me and like it had done previously, I guess. But I got a sort of reality check and a welcome reality check from Duncan say, Well, joining a business like BMW GB Bracknell is devilishly hard. We get 1000 CVs a week that tell us that you know that you're passionate, you're keen to learn. And at the moment Paul, you haven't got anything that differentiates you from those other 1000 applicants or people that show interest in joining BMW. And of course, joining a brand like BMW is popular. And I remember him selling it to me saying, Well, you know that there isn't a better place on earth that you could work. If you're into cars, which kind of sort of spurred me on even more, but he gave me some great advice and said, You need to go and find out or create something in your career that adds value at BMW GB. And at that point in time, I didn't have it.

Andy Follows: 26:34

Wow, really helpful. People often say it's not what you know, it's who you know. And I think when people say that it's tinged with a sort of distaste almost, or negativity that, well, it shouldn't be like that. It shouldn't be, but it is. But I think what you've described is, it literally is down to the people, you know, whoever they are, in your case, in this particular story. So far, it was Graham and Duncan, you knew loosely speaking enough to be able to say kind of a pint with you kind of a cup of tea with you and get some feedback. And you took those opportunities and got really valuable help, even though it wasn't, it wasn't a leg up. It wasn't it well it was a leg up, but it wasn't like, yeah, sure come along and work at BMW or Yes, it was. Okay. This is what you would need to have to appreciate and do and bring? Yes, really helpful. Thank you

Paul Flitter: 27:33

on that as well. That was a kind of a wake up call. And you're right. It's when people say it's not what you know, it's who you know, that you have is a sort of an unpleasant sort of tinge of nepotism sort of attached to that phrase. And that certainly wasn't my agenda at that time. But I just wanted to find out more and curious and I just had a thirst to know more. And he was very gracious in telling me straight.

Andy Follows: 27:58

Yeah. So what did you do with that information? How quickly did you rebound? Because I can appreciate you would have this Oh, it worked with Graham, I've got this covered. What you do is you find someone who's in a business that you want to work for you go up and you ask them, they give you a job, and then you move on. So did you bounce have to bounce back a little bit from realising Oh, hang on, it hasn't worked quite the same the second time around?

Paul Flitter: 28:21

Yeah I did. And I mean, frankly, it didn't, it didn't go according to plan either. So in in about 1997, there was a quite a large recruitment drive locally, BMW Financial Services, were setting up a an office locally in Hook, which is a short distance from Fleet. And they were recruiting quite heavily, basically to fill all departments. And there was a recruitment agency called Manpower that I think because of the volume of people that will they were looking to recruit, you were kind of sort of invited to apply to Manpower, and then you were kind of screened. And then you were invited to an open day at a hotel somewhere in the vicinity. So I saw that, in fact, I think Duncan gave me the heads up to say, look, I think this is going on, why don't you throw your hat in the ring. And that's really how it started. So I went along in about 1997 to I guess my first kind of assessment centre with with BMW Financial Services, where they were, as I say, looking to recruit young men and women and who, as I say, have a green behind the ears that could start on their career.

Andy Follows: 29:35

And what came of that?

Paul Flitter: 29:37

Well nothing immediately so I wasn't, I definitely wasn't successful in the assessment centre and it was my kind of first foray into problem solving and lots of people in suits round the edge of the room watching you and making notes and it was all a bit alien to me really at that time. But as a result of that, because I wasn't successful but the relationship that I've made with the lady at Manpower, opened another door for me. So she came back to me and said, Look, I'm really sorry, you weren't successful. But I've got some other things that you might be interested in, would you consider this and I went to see and she talked to me about joining a business called Southern Electric, which is a utility company an in the late 90s, the utility world if you like, was monopolised by British Gas, so you got gas from British Gas, and you got electric from your electric company. But there was an opening up of competition. So what UK listeners now known as switching that there that was happening in kind of 1997, where it gave customers freedom to pick and choose where they got their gas electric from? So I went for an interview at Southern electric in Basingstoke, which is again, not too far. And on the walk back out of the interview, I got a phone call and was was offered the job.

Andy Follows: 31:02

Oh, right, what was the job.

Paul Flitter: 31:04

So it was working in their cancellations sort of registrations team. So again, it was in a kind of open plan office, and everybody sort of worked in different departments. But all those departments were visible. And I was basically responsible for all of the people that wanted to leave southern Electric Gas, it was to phone those customers and talk to them about why they wanted to do it. So I guess in modern day times, if you're if you're looking to cancel your sky contract or your Virgin Media contract, you invariably end up in a cancellations team, and then they try and give into all the reasons why you should stay. That was me. So I was the cancellations department, which was a bit like sales with a phonebook, but in reverse.

Andy Follows: 31:49

Yeah, yeah. Thanks for sharing, particularly the story where you didn't succeed, because I think it's really helpful to hear that it doesn't always go right. And sometimes you go along to these assessment centres, and you don't get the job that you went for. It's also not unusual that something else then comes along shortly afterwards as a result of you having taken that initiative, so the lady from Manpower who had other opportunities for you. Let me take a moment to tell you about our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by ASKE Consulting who are experts in executive search, resourcing solutions and talent management across all sectors of the automotive industry in the UK and Europe. I've known them for almost 20 years, and I can think of no more fitting sponsor for CAREER-VIEW MIRROR. They're the business we go to at Aquilae when we're looking for talent for our clients and for projects that we're working on. ASKE was founded by Andrew McMillan, whose own automotive career includes board level positions with car brands and leasing companies All ASKE consultants have extensive client side experience, which means they bring valuable insight and perspective for both their employer and candidate customers. My earliest experience of working with Andrew was back in 2004, when he helped me hire regional managers from my leasing Sales Team at Alphabet. More recently, when Aquilae was helping a US client to establish a car subscription business ASKE Consulting was alongside us helping us to develop our people strategy, and to identify and bring onboard suitable talent. Clients we've referred to ASKE have had an equally positive experience. Andrew and the team at ASKE are genuinely interested in the long term outcomes for you and the people they place with you. They even offer the reassurance of a two year performance guarantee, which means they have skin in the game when working with you. If you're keen to secure the most talented and high potential people to accelerate your business and gain competitive advantage, do get in touch with them and let them know I sent you. You can email Andrew the team at Hello@askeconsulting.co.uk or check out their website for more details and more client feedback at www.askeconsulting.co.uk ASKE is spelt A S K E. You'll find these contact details in the show notes for this episode. Okay, let's get back to our episode. So how long did you spend there? And what what came after that?

Paul Flitter: 34:17

Yeah so I did 18 months there. And whilst I was there, I was exploring joining the automotive retail network of BMW. So I think locally to us, there was probably sort of three or four maybe five dealers, retailers as they are now within a sort of 20 mile radius. So I set about talking to them and saying, I've come to get some experience. This is really what I want to do. Will you give me an opportunity so it's all the time I was at Southern electric. I definitely had my eyes on taking Duncan's advice and I wanted to create my own skill set and have something that I could sit across the table from a recruiter and say well actually do You know what, I am a bit different. I have got these skills, all these things that you've put in your advert all these things that you want, or that you've said that you needed, I can do, because I've done this. So that was what I have the eye on.

Andy Follows: 35:13

Yeah, I love by now, in this story, you have level of clarity about what you want to be doing that you didn't have, when you were at school, you've now got a goal you've got or a vision of yourself working in the automotive retail environment. And you've got a mentor in Duncan, who's given you some really valuable advice that you need to have knowledge and skills, that's going to be a value for a potential employer in this field, well, whatever, it doesn't matter, you know, they're going to be looking for what makes you stand out. And for you, that means what's going to make me stand out to an automotive retailer. And that's motivating. So having not been perhaps as motivated at school, you're now more on a mission to get myself a role. Now, I'm guessing that when you were going around these automotive retailers around the area, it wasn't because they were advertising for jobs, necessarily. Were you just approaching them to say Hi, I'm Paul Flitter, I want to work in this industry.

Paul Flitter: 36:11

In the main it was very speculative. It was, yeah, this is this is who I am. Yeah, yeah, you don't know me. But this is what I've got the interest in doing. And I think one of the things that Duncan said was, you need to try and and I've had this advice through other hugely, sort of influential people that have touched my life and career that you need to be in someone's mind when they are making decision to recruit. So not one of those 1000s CVS, but actually, and I see, I see it now in my own current role that if you can recruit from somebody that you know, and someone that you've already got a bond with, and that you sort of semi trust and stuff that if you can position yourself to be in the forefront of somebody's mind that will stand you in good stead. So that's, that's effectively what I tried to do is that when positions became available, somebody thought of me

Andy Follows: 37:06

Absolutely brilliant. When we say it's not, you know what, you know, it's who you know, people only hire people who they know, worst case scenario is there's a limited interview process for them to get to know you completely. And that's so they can hire you because they don't hire you, if they don't know you at least a little bit. But if they already know you, because you introduced yourself at a time when they weren't looking, that helps. Also, what it tells them is, okay, this person isn't just reactive, they're not just reacting to the ad we've put out, they must have thought this through and come to the conclusion themselves. They've done some reflection, they've done some work, they've got a plan, we're on their plan. Now, their visit, this is all together far more interesting for me as a potential employer than the people who react to our outreach. So I can see that working and the recency you're in your front of mind. If you were there in the last few weeks, that gives you a an unfair advantage. Potentially, there could be someone better than you who's applying undoubtedly, but you're not front of mind. And being front of mind is a huge factor in there. Whether you get picked or not.

Paul Flitter: 38:22

Yeah, I think that was right. It certainly stood me in good stead. And we, you know, we even say it now in sort of look after our business and it was nearly sort of 50 people here that when they have a desire to move on, you know, whether it be internally or externally, we always sort of say, well, you know, put yourself in that position, make yourself visible so that when these things come around, you know, you're the first person that recruiter thinks of and and actually by doing that it makes the recruiters job a lot easier as well.

Andy Follows: 38:50

Absolutely.And so from this activity from this focus that you had now this intentional way you are approaching getting into the automotive retail segment what came from that what happened?

Paul Flitter: 39:03

I mean, I failed spectacularly Andy I'll be honest, I found automotive retail or getting into automotive retail probably just as competitive as my original aspiration of joining BMW in Bracknell. Yeah, there are lots and lots of people my age that one of those jobs I found it very, very competitive. And I think what helped me was that my next door neighbour in Fleet, where I lived with my mother and father was going out with a guy who I'd met and both of our families were sort of pretty close, I guess, at that time. And he said, Well, yeah, I've rang Currys and was having a chat with him. And I've yeah, I've just, I've just joined BMW. I mean, it's just a random conversation. Yeah. So I've just gone to work at a BMW dealership in Reading. I thought, Oh, yeah. Okay, well, that's how Yeah, how long is that? So again, I had somebody that was already in at BMW in Reading and again, you know, I said, Look, these are the things I've been doing. This is how far I've got. These are the things I've been sort of trying to nurture and develop. And I've just been hit with sort of slammed doors, but I haven't really had much success. And he was hugely kind and again, sat with me and said, Well, why don't you come and have a chat with us, and I'll put you in front of the decision makers and the people that run that business and then see where you go, but I've got no skin in the game. I'm just opening a door for you to have a chat. So we did that. And I again, was invited to a famed BMW assessment centre. And if you listened to you did a wonderful podcast with a, again, a wonderfully influential chap called Kevin Davidson. And when I listened to Kevin's story, I then later discovered that he was responsible for the BMW assessment centres because he'd gone off to the army and designed them. So thank you, Kevin. But yeah, so I ended up at a recruitment assessment centre with BMW in Reading, which were owned by Inchcape at the time. So big PLC group, and they went on to become very, very big in the BMW world, but at the time, they had to have three BMW dealers. So Thames Ditton, which again is in is in Surrey near to where I am now, Reading and Ipswich so felt quite big then, but later on, it was probably quite small by comparison. So I got to the assessment centre, which was at a place called Ettington Chase, which is up in Warwickrshire. And I didn't know at that time, that chap called Joe Dawson, and Will Mason, who were the after sales and service manager at BMW Reading, and actually invited somebody else into the assessment centre. So it was unknown to me that they had two people in the assessment centre, and I was one, again, looking back was sort of naive. But I was pleased to pass the assessment centre and was quite gruelling looking back on it again. And I was super nervous, I've in my head, I've never really interviewed very well, I've always had something in my head, pulling me back with interviews, I've always been pretty capable at learning and doing the job and working out what needs to be done and helping people and getting the job done. But you refer to that interview stage earlier on and how we interview and I've just never done it well, in my head,

Andy Follows: 42:25

we have to go through a process, in this case, the interview process to do that you say you're good at learning, obviously good at the job. But before you can get the chance to do that you have to also be good at interviewing, it's like you have to be good at marketing before you can do anything really. So yeah, interesting. And also you talk about failing, you said you failed dismally. But of course, you haven't failed dismally. And you would only potentially have failed had you stopped trying to get in. But you didn't stop trying. Those were just your early attempts, you know, maybe it took longer than you perhaps originally anticipated it would. But it's only failure if you stop trying before you get there. And sometimes it's not even failure, then it's just you decide, actually, I've completed this for me, this is not the right thing for me to do, I'm going to change because carrying on when it's not the right thing is not smart. Either knowing when to quit is also smart.

Paul Flitter: 43:20

So it's an interesting concept isn't because at the time, it feels like the world has ended. And I've sort of learned this quite recently of our CEO, a hugely influential chap to me and somebody who I admire greatly. I used to, I say get bent out of shape about all these things and failures, but he's always offered me some perspective. And he said, Look, it's just a passage of time and when things go wrong, and I'm pulling what's left of my hair out, and it feels like the whole world come to an end. It's just always there. And he says it's just a chapter we'll move on and you know, he's he's so right. So I've always have those words bandied around in my head when I think the world's about to cave in. It's just a chapter and actually, yeah, it's the resilience which drives you on.

Andy Follows: 44:08

So, you passed that assessment centre, did that mean you got the job?

Paul Flitter: 44:13

Well very sadly, they offered it to the other chap, oh god it was Yes. So coming back to that point in time where you think, oh, no, this is everything I wanted and everything I've felt I've been working towards and and it wasn't there. And

Andy Follows: 44:28

How valuable is that, though? How valuable is that injection of I've striven for this I've strived for it and and I want to even more now and and to re energise you and focus you to carry on

Paul Flitter: 44:45

My father always hits the nail on the head with these things, and he's quite pragmatic about about these. He says experience is something you get just after you need it. It's like yeah, and I'm probably paraphrasing a bit but So yeah, at the time you think well, yeah, yeah, it's but looking back on it, you think, well, it was probably a good thing to get knocked back a bit. Because, you know, if you're of the right mindset, and it's something that you truly, truly want. And it was probably a test in many ways to see whether I truly wanted it, I guess it didn't feel like it. But I was pleased to get knocked back.

Andy Follows: 45:22

So how did you bounce back? What did you do? Having, you know, had this disappointment?

Paul Flitter: 45:28

So I mean, I said to Joe Dawson, who was the after sales manager of BMW in Reading, I said, Look, I'd really want to stay in touch. And I don't mean the lip service that quite often people say, oh, yeah, can we stay in touch? Because you get that quite a bit, I think, can we stay in touch and invariably, that doesn't happen for a variety of different reasons. And I, I accept that. But I definitely stayed in touch with Joe, probably a bit too much. And said, look, I'm here, I'm 20 miles down the road in Fleet. Yeah, I'll still do everything for nothing. Can I join when you're ready, and with a sort of weird twist of fate, the chap who was recruited stayed for about six months, and it was in the after sales department as a service advisor, which if anybody has worked in coalface service advisor, it's probably one of the most challenging jobs in the dealership, I would suggest there'll be a load of people screaming at their podcast now saying, No, it's not. But yeah, it is. So he left after about six months, went back to the world of I think he went back off into banking. And then I got the phone call. So all right, I was playing second fiddle to somebody who hadn't worked out. But quite frankly, I didn't mind and it made the job easier for Joe just to pick up the phone and say, look, it ain't worked out. But when it came along, and, and start, so that that's how that happened. And

Andy Follows: 46:45

now they're cracking example of what happens in real life, if you approach it in the way you have. So you're playing a slightly longer game, so I've done the assessment centre, what have I taken away from that a renewed enthusiasm, a stronger relationship with the people at BMW in Reading, and you said, people say, keep in touch, and then nothing happens for a variety of reasons. I mean, one of the reasons seems to be that people don't actually put any effort into keeping in touch

Paul Flitter: 47:13

That'll be a big one. Yeah.

Andy Follows: 47:15

So if you do, it's an opportunity to differentiate, so that you were front of mind when six months later people move on things change, or you know, maybe they needed an extra person, but in this case, someone moved on you were front of mind. And away you go slightly later than advertised. You arrive in the Yes. You arrive in in the role. So you're now in?

Paul Flitter: 47:41

I am yeah, I got a Yeah. So we're in August 99. Now, so it's taken a few years from that, that chat with Duncan in 1996. But anyway, we got there. And I was offered a wonderful job as a service advisor. And yeah, initially I was, I found myself out of my depth very quickly. And I was probably in awe of the cars and the environment. But the team around me and particularly Joe and the leadership team at BMW in Reading, were hugely supportive and probably knew I was, as I say, green behind the ears but but wanted it to succeed and gave me lots of advice and help. And you told me when things probably weren't quite right, but equally said when things were good, and one of the things that Joe did for me when I first joined was called me on the Friday, I think, before I was going to start on the Monday he said, Look, can you just come in in plainclothes? Yeah, okay. Yeah, I'll do that. One of the things that was inspired that Joe did on my first day, he said, well you're going to do three weeks in our workshop. And he realised that I was not out of my depth, but I think he realised that it was all new to me, it was alien. I mean I knew the premise of the job and lots of people who explained it, but actually to do it. And to do it well, and to understand all the facets that make up delivering, receiving somebody's car, and then to give them their car back four hours later, in exactly the same condition as they had it when it dropped off with a 400 quid bill is an art form and I'm sat in my office now at Walton on Thames looking at our service advisors thinking Christ, you know, they do that for 20 or 30 people every week. And yeah, they're doing great things I was, I was never very good at it. But I was pleased to be in and I wanted to make the most of the opportunity.

Andy Follows: 49:33

It's a really good piece of leadership there not to overwhelm you not to drop you into something that would be more than a challenge it would be actually overwhelming, potentially negative, disruptive, unhelpful, but to say, No, we're gonna give you half a chance to do well at this by letting you familiarise yourself with what's going on behind the scenes. So excellent. Great story,

Paul Flitter: 50:01

I've got myself sort of settled into the service advisor role. And you know, there was some long, long established members of the of the off sales team. And there was, there was a sort of classic divide at BMW reading, I mean, geographically in terms of where they were positioned between after sales and service. And certainly in the UK, historically, and throughout my career, there has always been a sort of them and us type thing, even if it's unsaid, they operate as effectively two different businesses, I definitely could feel that there was a bit of a divide, but I definitely identified earlier on that we need them they need us and, and let's try and find a way that I can instil trust in you, and that you can trust me to look after your customers that you've sold cars to, that you've spent probably, you know, three, six months courting on the sales process. And you've got the customer to forward order. And so I was keen to bridge that gap between sales and service to say, well let you know if you guys need anything, come to us. And we'll help you. So I'd sort of identified that the relationship wasn't tattered, but it could definitely be more aligned. So I think during that process, I definitely had my eye on sales. And I'm not a natural salesperson, I don't think. But that's probably where I wanted to be at sort of 21 22 You know, I saw all the guys and girls, forgive me, down in the sales office seemed to be having fun. Yeah, they got a brand new company car, which was at 21 22 very attractive. So that's really where I set my sights, I think next, so I was already thinking about the next thing, I think at that time. And 2001 BMW Group had announced their split from the Rover Group and decided to relaunch MINI in the UK. And there was a huge amount of buzz around MINI. And it was definitely the language and the brand values and everything that went about MINI was almost the sort of polar opposite to the tonality that was used in BMW world. But there was a load of excitement around it sort of July 2001. And I went to one of the sales guys and said, Look, I really think I could do this. This is what I want to do next. And a chap called Matthew Baxter, who was the General Sales Manager, I got huge respect and admiration for Matthew, Yeah, him and Joe gave me an opportunity to then set up and be what we called MINI Champion. So the first MINI Champion in the UK at one of two satellite sites, I think we were very unique that most BMW dealerships had MINI bolted on to somewhere on their on their floor space. But Reading were a little bit unique. So it was us and Williams of Manchester that we had separate sites, so for the first time I was in my own business as it were selling MINI. So I did that about 18 months. And during this kind of sales, me started my career in sales. I was curious about an office that sat next to our sales manager. It was empty when I joined because the chap that was sat in it was on holiday. And I thought what goes on in there. And it was a chap called Adam Webb, who is probably the longest standing what we call business managers. So everybody who looked after f&i and finance and supported the sales function and supported the sales team in the sale of cars, and generating finance income, so I was always fascinated with that position. And Adam, again, hugely influential, and I owe a lot to Adam, which we might get to shortly. But he said, Well, I'll come up, and I'll help you manage MINI, and you won't have a full time business manager because we're satellite operations. So you're going to need to generalise in lots and lots of things. So invariably, Paul, you're not going to be the mini champion, you're going to be the service advisor, probably. And you're going to be the f&i guy. And you're going to be probably doing a bit of valeting, and you're going to need to support the workshop. But Adam sort of opened my eyes to the fact Well, you know, you're growing up, Paul, you're on your own type of thing, although I wasn't on my own, and taught me about finance and how to overlay that to help customers.

Andy Follows: 54:17

As another excellent example, this time of what happens when you're in a smaller part of a larger business, and you get so much more opportunity. Yes, you have to be more of a generalist, but you get exposure to lots of different areas of the business and often lots of different people

Paul Flitter: 54:38

Definitely and again, I didn't realise it at the time, but you know, it was another sort of feather to the cap. It was kind of I sort of stopped short of saying, Well, I'd done after sales, but I definitely got experience from after sales and I knew the relationship between service advisor and workshop. And so I was I was joining up the dots but probably didn't know it at that time. So the MINI role when it came back seemed like the perfect thing it was It helped me get into sales. But also I could take the experience from BMW with me as well with Adam's help.

Andy Follows: 55:06

Yeah. So how did that play out? And then what caused you to leave and move on?

Paul Flitter: 55:13

Yeah, so I did the MINI job for about 18 months, hugely exciting, a load of buzz around that brand. And I learned a lot. What happened whilst I was at Mini was a lot of the leadership team and all those people that I found at the main base had left and I felt for the first time exposed a little bit, I felt like I was on my own. I didn't feel like anyone's apart from Adam, who was still there. I didn't feel like anyone sort of had my back in the same way. So it was a it was a big lesson that people kind of move on and I wasn't expecting it. But they all moved on. And it was like oh christ, who's got my back? Again, Adam called me back and said, look, it's all change down at the mothership we used to call it there probably isn't a way back for you Paul because there's there's lots of change. And so I decided to apply for a BMW sales position in a dealership very, very close to where I lived in Odiham, which is right next to strange to relate right next to BMW Financial Services in Hook. So I made the decision to leave BMW in Reading and MINI and I joined a family owned what we would call an owner driver type business in a village in Odiham, which was a small dealer group. So it consisted of Bournemouth, Salisbury and Odiham, but very, very different operating style. Although we had the same badge and the same cars out the front, I noticed the big seismic shift between a robust well processed big PLC machine to working in an owner driver organisation.

Andy Follows: 56:55

Was there anything specific that stood out then from that transition into an owner driver into a family owned business? You mentioned the processes, was there anything else that stood out from that?

Paul Flitter: 57:06

There were lots of things that stood out for me, but one of the overriding things was that I felt self employed. So I joined the business I was in my early 20s, I joined a business on an income of 7000 pounds a year. But what that taught me was that I am self employed, I am a business within a business. And you've got to get on. And you've got to sell and you've got to get results. Not that those things weren't in the spotlight in my previous jobs. But it just became a bit more alive at that time. And I was looking to move, you know, buy my first house and do all the things that you want to do when you're sort of in your early 20s. So what it taught me in the three years that I was there was yeah, you've just got to roll up your sleeves and crack on. And that's what I did.

Andy Follows: 57:52

And how long did you do that for Paul?

Paul Flitter: 57:54

Yeah so I did it for three years. And again, I still had that hankering of becoming a business manager, just like Adam back at Reading. So I did it for three years. And I'd made noises to the dealer principal and the sales manager that that's really what I'd like to do next. And, and again, the position became available, and they offered it to an external, an external recruit. And by complete chance, Adam then called me and said look it's all change again, back at the mothership. The outlook is a lot brighter. I think you'll enjoy it back here. Now. We're getting busier. You know, I need a wing man, I need someone to work alongside me, which, again, was alien to him having worked on his own for so long. He said, will you come back. And that's what happened. So in 2005, I went back to work alongside Adam his as I say first assistant. But I was hugely humbled that Adam had asked me to go back and work alongside him. And so I went back to Reading for the next seven years as a business manager alongside him. And we had a amazing team. It felt like we had a great culture. And I think, I think a lot about businesses and particularly PLCs. And I'm not here to run PLCs down, I definitely couldn't do what I do every day, if I've not had so much exposure and an education through working with PLC. But when you work in a PLC, they can often sort of say we are top 100 Places to Work Sunday Times, or your best employer or investor in people and I understand all those things. But actually, it's the it's the unit that you work in within that organisation that makes the difference. And I think for seven years, we had great leadership team, which was it had longevity in the main and actually for a BMW retailer at that time we had great longevity in our sales force. And we became a family. And that's probably apart from the loyalty that I had with Adam because he'd given me that opportunity. And it's so much what I wanted to do. It was definitely the people, as well as that that made me stay for so long. It was hugely rewarding seven years, and I'm eternally grateful for that.

Andy Follows: 1:00:19

And what then caused you to move on then having as it was such a great environment,

Paul Flitter: 1:00:24

I'd never really talked about this, but this is probably my, at the time or looking back on it, the way that I did, it was probably my sort of biggest regret, not because I moved on, but probably because of the way I went about it. And I haven't come here to sort of turn this into a confessional. But for seven years, it was just the best place to work with the best people, as I've already mentioned. And quite often in automotive retail, you know, it is a roller coaster of a ride, it's not linear, every day is different. It's a very reactive environment, compared to Yeah, we talk about wholesale, the manufacturer life and, and retail. And although they're all trying to do the same thing and look after the customer and sell cars, the environments I think in which they do that are very, very polarised. But frankly, I was having I was having a bad day, which I gotta say in defence, it didn't happen often. But I was just grumpy and miserable about something, I can't even remember what it was. And the weekly auto car magazine came around. And when you're having a bad day in automotive retail, usually used to flick to the back pages to see what opportunities are around, quite often just a fleeting glance before you then put it in the bin and got on with the day. But I'd seen the job to join HWM Aston Martin. And, frankly, I'd never heard of HW Aston Martin at that time. So it's all a bit alien to me. So I wrote to the recruiter, and I must say he was, during my time at BMW, I'd still got one eye on joining BMW GB Ltd. and I was introduced to a wonderful chat through that period of time. And I'm sorry to backtrack a little bit called Adrian Davies, who, again, has been a guest on your podcast. And I was introduced to him by Duncan probably because I'd bored Duncan to tears. And he just wanted to get rid of me at that time. But he said, Go and have a chat with our careers Strategy Manager, I think which one of the jobs Adrian was doing at the time. And he gave me some, again, some sage advice and said, Look, this isn't going to be easy. And again, at points in my life and career, Adrian has always been a wonderful sounding board who I respect amazingly. And, you know, when he told me he was leaving BMW to go and do other things, and if you get some time listen to his story. It's quite remarkable. So during that process, Adrian introduced me to the recruiter, so I'd already had exposure to the recruiter. So when I made the application to join HWM, Aston Martin, that relationship was already sort of beginning to form.

Andy Follows: 1:03:05

And how did that progress talk me through it?

Paul Flitter: 1:03:08

Yes so I basically applied for the position as a commercial manager, so probably what you and I know as business managers, so yeah, HWM Aston Martin, the world's oldest Aston Martin dealership in the world, we're still family owned by the same family since 1958. So remarkable history, but they believe it or not, in 2012, didn't have an f&i function. And of course, I had, I had seven years of f&i knowledge and usage and how to get the most out of that function. If you wanted to buy an Aston Martin in 2011, you were given the telephone number of a broker. And our chairman Alona had the foresight at that time to say, well, actually, you know, we could take all that in house, which is really what I was recruited to do.

Andy Follows: 1:03:53

And on this occasion, you absolutely had lots of value to bring to going back to the Duncan Forester advice. This is now you are well equipped to add value to this business because of the path that you took, because of the prior decisions you made and the experience you'd built up the knowledge and the skills that you'd got, all of a sudden, this conversation is a very sensible one.

Paul Flitter: 1:04:17

Yeah, I think I think you're right. It was the first job I was particularly proud of it. It was the first job that I had sort of I mean, this nicely that I'd done on my own, that I that I didn't have somebody helping me or there was definitely people giving me advice and what I should do, and I'm, again, hugely grateful, but I didn't have somebody on the inside, let's say so yeah, I was hugely proud of that. And I could walk into the three interviews that I had, knowing that I could do the job that I wanted just, yeah, they wanted to do so that helped.

Andy Follows: 1:04:50

It's about fit in the beginning, your aspirations were there, and the fit wasn't there yet. And then over time, You developed and then this occasion the fit was spot on?

Paul Flitter: 1:05:04

It absolutely was. And I think you do that sometimes when you're looking at job briefs or roles that you get sent, you think well, actually, you know, I could, I think I could do that. And yeah, I can't do that. But I could learn it on the way and just put yourself out there. And it was a, it was an incredible wrench leaving BMW and I mentioned earlier on it was a regret because we'd had this tight knit almost a family at BMW in Reading, where we all knew each other socially. We'd go to barbecues, we go to family events, where I lacked experience was how to resign. Well, looking back on it, it's probably never a nice conversation in the main that people want to have. But I really felt like I had thrown a grenade into the room, and nobody saw it coming. And I did that very, very badly where, you know, Adam had backed me and supported me for so long. And given that opportunity, and the other guys who I worked very, very closely with didn't see it coming. So yeah, I look back on that period of time thinking, you know, if I could have done that a bit differently, I absolutely would have

Andy Follows: 1:06:10

thanks for sharing that another great example of how we grow and how with hindsight and reflection, we notice we could have done things better. So you got the job? Yes. Tell me a little bit about your progression through the business and what you're doing now. And what's happening at HWM right now

Paul Flitter: 1:06:30

First of all, HWM is a kind of unique business, it's wonderful. In many respects, there are many upsides to working for a family owned business. And as I mentioned earlier on, you know, we couldn't do all the things we do today without having all the experience that we've had in the past. So when I joined HWM, I naively thought that I could just pick up the manufacturer, BMW OEM offering and extrapolate that into HWM, and I thought, well, this is easy, I can just pick up that and then drop it in here. And I was very, very wrong very, very quickly that a supported OEM manufacturer business operates very differently from a multi make business such as Alphera, as they developed their own business to support ours.

Andy Follows: 1:07:20

So working with their finance partner, that's all makes, it was more challenging than working with one that is just set up to support sales of the OEM.

Paul Flitter: 1:07:29

And I very very quickly realised that it was uncharted territory for them as well. So they were lending and I was asking them to lend on values of vehicles that a they were big numbers, all the numbers that we were suddenly dealing with were a lot bigger, and they didn't have the same appetite for risk. And I wanted to sort of put my arm around them. And they were very, very gracious to come on the journey as well to say, look, I think I think we've got something here, if we can just do this and do that. And, you know, there were lots of can you justs and lots of sort of high level conversations, I think, to try and get things done. But luckily, they came on the journey and developed their own business into what became trading as Aston Martin Financial Services until very recently.

Andy Follows: 1:08:12

Yeah so you were able to use your experience of the BMW brand of the way that business thinks now within Aston Martin to help Alphera develop Aston Martin financial services

Paul Flitter: 1:08:23

Completely. Yeah. And I've always viewed those relationships as a two way thing. And, you know, I've worked with people and we've come across people that view relationships well, if I can get what I want and get out, and then I can move on to the next thing. I've always tried to be balanced and be collaborative in that nature to understand well, this is what I want Alphera. But this is what I think it can do for you. And if we can go on that journey together, I think I think it will do that. So it's always always to be mindful in these things that the relationship is two way.

Andy Follows: 1:08:56

And that's obviously worked very well. And you're now Chief Operating Officer. Yeah, in this business. So you've you talked about having your own business or that sense of having your own business in the Mini satellite. You really do have your own business now and have done for some time.

Paul Flitter: 1:09:11

Yeah. I think it's been, I get asked this quite a bit by people. And when you look how long I've been here on a CV, and I think other guests have probably mentioned this as well, you think Well, I've been here 12 years, why haven't you moved on? And probably when you look at it on paper, you think well 12 years is a long time, particularly in automotive retail at one place. But one of the wonderful things about HWM apart from it being sort of unique and getting special cars and having the freedom to kind of operate and be yourself and to deliver on a service is that they've worked very, very hard to look after their people. And that was one of the things that instantly struck me during the interview process is that this business has provided me with a career path that has been hugely rewarding and enriching. And I've always made noises about the things I'd like to do next and my own aspirations. And I think where I've delivered on those things, it's always opened another door for me. So I get involved in a wide variety of things, from finance to ops to my day might start at six o'clock where I get a message from somebody who is going to be off sick for the day, and how we're going to sort that out as a business. And we've got a wonderful team of people, our technicians, some of them have been with us for 30 years plus, and until recently, we had a driver that retired on his 50th year with us. I mean, literally, man and boy. So there's not a day that goes by in HWM, where there's not something unusual going on and something surprising and that's what I love about this business. It looks after its people. But it's true to that when it says it and is hugely respectful of the brand and the relationship that we've got with Aston Martin Lagonda, which is in our view sacrosanct. We you know, we hold that in, in high regard. And we don't take it for granted. But look if we look after our people, well, they will look after our customers and I want this to be a wonderful place for customers to come visit

Andy Follows: 1:11:18

It sounds really wonderful environment and so much heritage and to have people who are there 50 years or technicians 30 years. That means a lot to your customers. I think that they're steeped in the brand and steeped in the evolution of the technology. So I can understand why you're there. And it's keeping you fulfilled that role. Paul, is there anything I haven't asked you that means? I mean, you've shared so many really wonderful lessons. Is there anything I've missed?

Paul Flitter: 1:11:46

I think the only thing that has been critical to me, I think in my life and career is people and how much you need people and not only in career, but I mean, at home as well now with my wife, and yeah, my wife gave up her career when we got married in 2012. So I actually joined HWM the week that I got married. So all that stuff was going on at the same time where I'd resigned, got married, and all those people I've upset, you know were guests at my wedding, which was awkward.

Andy Follows: 1:12:17

So have they forgiven you?

Paul Flitter: 1:12:19

I think so yes, I think there's water under the bridge for sure. I just think people are amazing and can do amazing things for you. And, and if you can create the right environment and be supportive. And I mean, both at work. And at home, you know, my my wife is raising our three, we got three young boys, which is a zoo most of the time, but she creates the environment for me to go out to work. And it's just one less stress that I've got you know fair enough. Look we're in a marriage I'm not going to turn this into a relate session, but I'm hugely mindful of all the things that people do. And you know the huge support that my wife gives me when I know that she probably wants to throw something at me because I've got another event to go to. Or I've got to miss a sports day or a football thing or something. So yeah, I just think people, if you can support them, they'll support you. And yeah, look after people.

Andy Follows: 1:13:16

Thank you very much indeed for giving me your time today and sharing your career story and your life story with me and our listeners. Really appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Paul Flitter: 1:13:28

Thanks, Andy. It's been a pleasure.

Andy Follows: 1:13:35

You've been listening to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR with me, Andy Follows depending on your unique life experience where you find yourself right now and your personal goals, you'll have your own takeaways from Paul's story. Some elements that stood out for me were that he didn't have a clear direction during school days. But he was good at noticing what looked appealing. And he wasn't afraid to ask Graham Ford about a job in the phone shop, or Duncan Forrester about how to get into BMW GB. Once he had a vision of what he wanted to do, he was able to work towards it. And he finally got into the BMW retail environment, which will be the beginning of a successful automotive career. He's now getting the best of both worlds, benefiting from his PLC learnings in a family organisation with a great culture and some of the industry's most cherished brands. If you'd like to connect with Paul, you'll find his contact details in the show notes to this episode. If you enjoy listening to my guest stories, please could you do me a favour and share an episode with someone you lead parents or mentor? Or perhaps a friend of yours who you think would also enjoy listening. Thank you to Paul for joining me for our conversation. Thank you to our sponsors for this episode ASKE Consulting and Aquilae and thank you to the CAREER-VIEW MIRROR team without whom we wouldn't be able to share our guests life and career stories. And above all, thank you to you for listening.