Kees Jan Boorsma: Demonstrating how no experience need be wasted during an inspiring international career with PSA and Global Automotive.

In this episode I'm joined by Kees Jan Boorsma.

Kees Jan is the owner of Global Automotive, Interim Management and Consultancy. They advise customers and provide interim management focusing on wholesale and retail in the global automotive industry. Their services are geared to OEMs, Importers and Retailers in diverse multicultural environments.

They advise and execute in a competent, pragmatic and hands-on fashion.

Prior to forming Global Automotive, Kees Jan had a successful international career with PSA spanning the Netherlands, Germany, South Africa and France.

In our conversation we talk about his early experiences from a celebrated hotel school and military service and how he finally found his way into the automotive industry.

He shares how nothing was wasted as each step played a part in contributing to the next, how he continued to learn throughout his career including needing to be able to transact business in multiple languages and how his approach to relationships particularly with retail partners assisted him to achieve his goals and the targets of the organisation in a manner that was sustainable and earned valuable respect.

I very much enjoyed getting to know Kees Jan through this conversation and look forward to hearing what resonates with you.

Connect with Kees Jan

LinkedIn: Kees Jan Boorsma

About Andy

I'm an experienced business leader and a passionate developer of people in the automotive finance industry, internationally.

During over twenty five years, I have played a key role in developing businesses including Alphabet UK, BMW Corporate Finance UK, BMW Financial Services Singapore, BMW Financial Services New Zealand and Tesla Financial Services UK.

At the same time, I have coached individuals and delivered leadership development programmes in 17 countries across Asia, Europe and North America.

I started Aquilae in 2016 to enable “Fulfilling Performance” in the mobility industry, internationally.

Learn more about Fulfilling Performance

Check out Release the handbrake! The Fulfilling Performance Hub.

Connect with Andy

LinkedIn: Andy Follows
Email: cvm@aquilae.co.uk

Join a guided peer mentoring team: Aquilae Academy

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Episode recorded on 22 July, 2024.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome, childhood and education
• 8:49 Starting in hospitality management after quitting university
• 12:30 Period of military service and learnings about himself
• 16:07 Moving into the automotive industry and sales
• 21:20 Regional Manager position with Peugeot, Netherlands
• 30:32 Career aspirations and moving into marketing
• 37:23 Rapid learning of French!
• 39:13 Promotion to Sales Director, Netherlands and restructuring of dealerships
• 43:07 Moving to Germany with Peugot as Sales Director
• 49:28 Opportunity and challenges in South Africa
• 1:00:51 Brief period in Headquarters, Paris before returning to Germany
• 1:05:03 Deciding it's time to move on and leave Peugeot
• 1:08:31 Revaluating life and following his passion
• 1:11:14 Wrapping up and takeaways

Transcript

Kees Jan Boorsma: 0:00

And I can tell you I was tough. When I went to South Africa, they checked with him with the German president and he said, Well, he is as mean as a dog when it concerns business. But as a human being he's extremely friendly.

Aquilae: 0:14

Welcome to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR, the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers to share insights to help you with your own journey. Here's your host, Andy Follows

Andy: 0:28

Hello, listeners, Andy here. Thank you for tuning in. We appreciate that you do. We're also very grateful for our guests who generously joined me to create these episodes so that we can celebrate their careers listen to their stories, and learn from their experiences. In this episode, we're celebrating the career to date of Kees Jan Boorsma.Kees Jan is the owner of Global Automotive Interim Management and Consultancy. They advise customers and provide interim management focusing on wholesale and retail in the global automotive industry. Their services are geared to OEMs importers and retailers in diverse multicultural environments. They advise and execute in a competent pragmatic and hands on fashion Prior to forming Global Automotive Kees Jan and had a successful international career with PSA spanning the Netherlands, Germany, South Africa and France. In our conversation, we talk about his early experiences from a celebrated Hotel School and military service and how he finally found his way into the automotive industry. He shares how nothing was wasted as each step played a part in contributing to the next how he continued to learn throughout his career, including needing to be able to transact business in multiple languages, and how his approach to relationships particularly with retail partners, assisted him to achieve his goals and the targets of the organization in a manner that was sustainable and earned valuable respect. I've very much enjoyed getting to know Kees Jan through this conversation and look forward to hearing what resonates with you. If you're listening for the first time. Hello, I'm Andy Follows I help business owners and executives to enable Fulfilling Performance for themselves and those they lead and care about. If you'd like to know more about Fulfilling Performance, you can sign up for our weekly newsletter. In it you'll find easily digestible ideas on how to increase levels of performance and fulfillment for yourself and those you lead and care about. Go to Andyfollows.substack.com, or use the link in the show notes to this episode. If you listen to podcasts like CAREER-VIEW MIRROR, I'm guessing that you recognize you can learn from other people. When I'm not recording these conversations with inspiring individuals, you'll find me facilitating guided peer mentoring teams in our Aquilae Academy. We bring together small groups of business owners and senior leaders from non competing organizations and create a virtual environment in which they can get to know and trust each other and share and support each other with their current challenges. If that sounds interesting, email academy@aquilae.co.uk and we'll send you more details you'll find that address in the show notes to this episode.

Andy Follows: 3:29

Hello, Kees Jan and welcome. Where are you coming to us from today?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 3:33

Hi Andy, I'm coming from Offenbach, Germany. And for those who don't know where Offenbach is situated, it's very close to Frankfurt.

Andy: 3:41

Thank you very much for joining me. And thank you for clarifying where Offenbach is I haven't visited there. Maybe one day. As I like to ask my guests though, where were you born? Where did your journey start?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 3:53

My journey started in [name] in the Netherlands. It's very close to Rotterdam.

Andy: 3:59

Tell me a little bit about your childhood, the family that you found yourself born into.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 4:05

I was born in 61. I have one sister who came two years later. Nice parents we grew up in normal circumstances. Nothing extremely good. Nothing extremely bad. Just like it used to be, I would say.

Andy: 4:19

So what did you see your parents doing? I'm always curious what sort of jobs my guests had visibility of what did your mother and father do?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 4:27

My father started in mechanics, but really the basics. So basically working shifts in the heavy industry metal. My mother, she started the career as a teacher. But in those days, beginning of the 60s when a couple got married, the woman mostly stopped working. So she stopped. My father he made a career he went into accounting, making estimations in the shipbuilding industry. That's what he did his whole life and my mother, she became A good mother never worked again afterwards.

Andy: 5:03

Right. Let's just touch on school, then. So how would your teachers describe you?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 5:10

I was a difficult child. In modern times, you would have gotten the diagnose HD HD hyperactive in those days. They always told you, if you go on like this, you go to a special schools for children that have difficulties to deal with. But I had lots of energy, more energy as my teachers could manage. But

Andy: 5:31

OK, and how did that turn out in terms of academic success? Were you able to channel that energy into particular subjects and come out with some good qualifications?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 5:43

Well typically for those people is it goes with ups and downs. But my mother, she was very strong in directing me, motivating me. So she kept me on track. And basically, I did primary school on a level to go to university. So at the end, I never had to double. So it was a straight line, not excessively good notes, but always good enough to pass and then ready for university

Andy: 6:13

What about sport, because I haven't known you for very long. We've had a couple of conversations, but I have the sense that you are quite an athletic person. So was sport playing a role already in school days.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 6:27

Not in those days. Funny enough, that only started later. It's a nice story. Perhaps for later, it's too early to do it now. Oh, right.

Andy: 6:37

Oh, well, that's a teaser. Let us not forget. And by the time you left school and went to university, did you already have some ideas on what direction you wanted to go in?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 6:47

No, that was also part of my problem. I basically had some hobbies that were more, let's say in the what they call the better direction. So technical. I made all kinds of electronic devices, friends who did the same thing kept us busy, but not was not very sexy. You're in the age of 14 15 16. So there, I decided that small electric devices could become vroom vroom. Also motor, what do you call them. Not the big ones, the smaller ones, like a moped or scooter Yeah, the mopeds. Exactly. So that kept me busy. And I was also good for my image in front of the female part of

Andy: 7:29

so you looked, you were looking good. You're looking cool with your

Kees Jan Boorsma: 7:33

I was looking cool. But I also knew that there was no real career for me possible in this technical environment, because I was terribly bad with math. So that was not an option. And I had a very nice teacher who kept me busy with economics. So the fact that was a nice teacher and I had a very good note at the end. And the obvious decision, I started studying economics in Rotterdam, Erasmus University, but the motivation it was poor, so after a half year, I already found out that it was not something that would make me

Andy: 8:08

So what did you do? How did you happy.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 8:10

I must admit, I also made one stupid mistake. For whatever reason I had good friends in the part of the Netherlands, where I used to live in those days in the Southwest [name], every weekend, I went back. So what I did not do was become a member of student club, something local. I'm pretty sure if I would have spent more time in Rotterdam doing what all the other students did, then perhaps the outcome would have been differently. But my social life was still in Middleburg where my parents lived. I was studying in Rotterdam. And if the study doesn't make you happy, and your friends are not there where you need them. So, first lesson learned.

Andy: 8:48

Yeah. So having decided not to stay on your first on the economics studies, what did you choose to do instead?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 8:56

Well, I could come back and live with my parents. But it's not going to be for free. So I found a job an administrative job at a big retail warehouse. So I earned the money, I did what I had to do. But that was not the first job. By the way to find this job. I did a few other jobs that were even less inspiring. So second lesson learned. If you don't have an education, if you do not have something that makes you sexy enough to get a job that makes you happy, you better go back to school and start studying to make yourself more attractive and find that what you try to find that was really makes you happy. And so I had to start thinking again, what to do with my life. So I also did some work in a hotel with a restaurant. There I discovered that this hospitality environment made me happy. So in those days, there were two of these kinds of schools in the Netherlands, hospitality industry. One in [name], that's the Hague and one in the southeast {name]. I volunteered for both. And the one is [name] is where I got through the selection procedures. So in 1981, I would start at the[hotel school] in [name]. So hospitality management on almost academic level, lots of theory, but also practice,

Andy: 10:28

how was the reality of that

Kees Jan Boorsma: 10:30

The reality was closer to the first experience than I would have believed upfront for many reasons. Partly certainly have to do with me. Okay, I was better informed, I was more motivated. Also, the fact that I pass through this selection, which was pretty exclusive. And knowing that there were only 75 times two it was with a semester system, so 150 Students granted a place. So it was exclusive. So it was also yeah, you put to everybody. I'm allowed to start a study at a [hotel school] in[name]. So that's all made it very nice at the start, but already found out that in this hospitality environments, I'm probably better as a customer. So at the other side of the table, not at the production side. But you know what it was, nevertheless, the very best wrong choice I ever made in my life. Because I met my wife over there.

Andy Follows: 11:34

Excellent.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 11:35

That was in 1982. And we are still together, we're still happy and was she a student as well? Exactly. She was one year after me. So wrong choice, but good outcome. Yeah. And later, if there is another element that made it a very good, wrong choice, because twice I volunteered for a job, and I got a job, where this element of having my [hotel school] diploma, played a very important role, although it had nothing to do with hospitality management, but just with the image of the school in those days being very exclusive. So no career for me in the hospitality management. But it helped me to start going in a direction of automotive.

Andy: 12:16

Right. So how then did you go from Hospitality Management, having decided you'd be much better as a customer, which I love. How did you then transition or set your compass towards automotive?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 12:30

Well, there was a, in those days, obvious, let's say, auto pause, called military service, I had to do my tour of duty. I tried to avoid it. But I found out that I was planned for being an officer leaving the army with the title the status of Officer, so I got a six month training, and then 12 months active duty becoming a platoon commander. So being the boss of 30 40 soldiers, so with that perspective, I decided not to push it to the limits and escaping my military service. Because I those days, I had a few job offers. Companies where friends worked that sounded good, but the military service had a good perspective. So I decided to start with that. So my 18 months, and I did everything I had to do, I could leave the army two months earlier, because the place we were sitting, there was a there was a fire with a few other people, I managed to avoid that it would have become a catastrophe. And as a as a result as a reward, I could leave my service my military service two months earlier as planned to start a job. The most important thing of the military service is that I found a few things about myself, that I liked this structured environment, that I'm very good in dealing with people being a commander. But on the other hand, also being more than that being a person they trust they respect. So not typical officer or commander but slightly more slightly better. And that somehow gave me the impression that's perhaps a quality I could use later. And it gave me the time to think about direction, still a little bit not sure I started, funnily enough, my career at Randstat. It's a company that deals with temporary labor. So if you want to work for six months, you go to these kinds of companies, you get a contract with them, and they find a job for you. And after six months, normally they would propose you something else. I have no clue. I gave it a thought why I land at the door to Randstat. I can't tell you, the only thing that was important, I was pushed into a department where we were dealing with people with technical backgrounds, so for technical jobs, so I was dealing with people who do the welding, I was dealing with people like my father, who did serious heavy stuff in the heavy metal industry. So There was the word technical stuff involved

Andy Follows: 15:02

And this was after military service

Kees Jan Boorsma: 15:04

after military directly after and two months earlier as planned because of this fire brigade activity.

Andy: 15:12

Did you have to put a fire out, were you rescuing people from a burning building.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 15:16

Yeah yeah yeah, it was only at the end a hole in the floor. So you could see the office one story below. But we were there at the right time, we avoided that the whole whole room would have burned and all gone up. So no, they were very happy that we were there and that we were so courageous. I won two months got the job. During the intake conversation, I certainly showed that I had a keen interest in technical things and electronics. So that's probably why I landed in this specific department. And the good thing is it later helped me because coming from a school that is dealing with managers for the hospitality industry, then starting at Randstat dealing with the technical staff, knowing after six months that Randstad was not the right company. And having a friend who was in sales. Very crucial element in my career. My best friend, he was in sales, he had a very nice salary. He had a company car, and he had a few other things I didn't have. And he was my he was the guy I was in the military service with. And he was also one of the two who got this earlier retirement from military service. And he straight went into a sales job at Philips. After six months, he had a company car and a nice salary and lots of money because he was very good. And I was sitting at Ronstadt in a relatively formal organization with a boss that somehow he and I, we didn't have a good chemistry. So after six months, I already started thinking about a next move. There was a company called [name]. And they were selling Caterpillar excavators and all these big machines. And they were looking for a junior sales representatives. I thought nothing to lose, I wrote a letter. That's what you did in those days, write a letter and got the job because of the fact that I had [hotel school], that obviously was very sexy, but more important, the guy who was not my direct boss, but one level higher. He also was like me, reserve officer, and he had a good feeling with people like me.

Andy: 17:26

Yeah, so there's a sense of understanding, commonality.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 17:30

Exactly.

Andy Follows: 17:30

And also the impressive credentials of the hotel school. I do enjoy when nothing is wasted, I enjoy when if I can say to people who feel a little bit stuck, so people earlier in their careers, that everything they've done so far, it's not wasted, it will contribute.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 17:47

It's a journey.

Andy Follows: 17:48

Yes, it's a journey. And don't feel bad about where you are. Just think. Okay, so draw a line. Now, where do I want to go next

Kees Jan Boorsma: 17:56

important, is all what you find out afterwards? It's not so during the conversations I had and the procedures that I knew exactly what I was doing. It's what I was taught later. Because somehow you you you meet these people in a more private setting. And then you ask him, Hey, why did you take me and not example, one of my best friends who also was in the race, but why didn't you take him? And then they tell you well, your military service background, your [hotel school] And of course, what you told and how you presented yourself but important elements, so no waste

Andy Follows: 18:34

Yeah, no waste. So you started selling heavy as a junior sales representative selling heavy plant.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 18:41

Selling was not they told me selling basically, what they should have told me about that they had a few very senior salespeople. They were doing the existing clients, they did a good job, but the company wants to do more acquisition. So basically, we were doing acquisition, which was sitting in a nice car, driving through the countryside, visiting companies, presenting yourself presenting the company, asking how these entrepreneurs were doing, why they were using this kind of machine and not yours. So basically building up relationships or trying to build a relationship. And then hopefully, in the future, getting the possibility to make a proposal and perhaps even later to sell something. That was the job description that we found out later

Andy Follows: 19:29

And how did you find that type of work?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 19:32

I had no problem with that. Of course, it's not always nice when you because in those days, you didn't use the phone, you had your data and you got a list with addresses. You have your car and you just visited these people. You know what most of you knew where to find them. And then you try to start a conversation. And sometimes it works. Sometimes it didn't work but I always learned if they don't want to speak with you, perhaps if even if they are not so friendly, it's not personal. They're just busy. So

Andy: 20:01

did you learn that while you were doing it? Or is that something you realized after

Kees Jan Boorsma: 20:05

just learning by doing first visits, somebody told me don't take it personally. And as I mentioned, my best friend, he was in the now in the same activity. So we were both salespeople, we both had our company cars. When we met in the weekend, we had similar stories, of course, different products. So it was good. We shared the same shit. We share the same success.

Andy: 20:28

Yeah. So tell me more Kees Jan. How did you progress from here?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 20:32

Well I was in sales, I was happy. It was a very nice company well managed. But they got a serious problem with with their experienced sales staff, because we were three of these new salespeople, junior sales representatives, and we were pretty successful. And that caused a serious problem. So it's no joke. After 12 months, the three of us, they cancelled our contracts,

Andy Follows: 20:56

who cancelled

Kees Jan Boorsma: 20:57

the company, the company cancelled with the convincing arguments that they had to choose between the existing experienced salespeople going on full throttle or going on with us, but potentially leaving a few of their experienced staff.

Andy: 21:12

Right. So they chose just to keep all the experienced staff

Kees Jan Boorsma: 21:14

They announced it. And after 12 months, we were forced to start looking for a new job, right. So there was a job available at Peugeot the Netherlands regional manager, basically being responsible for the more or less 12 dealers in some parts of the country. They were looking for one in the southwest area. That's basically where I came from. And they were looking for people with a technical background. Okay. And now you see where the story ends. I was in sales, I was pretty successful. Through Ronstadt, I had something like a technical background, I still had this hospitality management issue with hotel school and my military service. But here once again, my direct chef, who was the one who took the final decision in taking me, he was a reserve officer. So you see,

Andy Follows: 22:07

yeah, so there's you're building up a portfolio of valuable experiences and skill set now plus the network benefit?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 22:16

Exactly. And of course, the skills of presenting myself well, giving the right answers to the questions and being polite. And perhaps it sounds like it was all planned. No, it was not afterwards, I discovered, but it's weird. These things that just now they happen. Not 100% part of a planning, but let's say takes your 70%. And at the end, it builds up. And it brings you exactly there where you feel at ease where you start your real career, because this was only the preparations of the real career. Yeah, that was the first job where I said, this is where I belong.

Andy: 22:54

Okay, I am really pleased that you said it wasn't all planned. And I think often these things aren't planned, they make sense looking back, and you can see how you are well suited and how you got the job because of all these aspects. But it's really important to stress that at the time, we don't necessarily see that, or know that or appreciate that we're still figuring it out. And it only makes this kind of sense. Looking back. So if you can listen to these sorts of stories of other people's journeys and discover that they didn't have it all figured out at the time, they were just putting one foot in front of the other and following what seemed like a good direction and only makes sense looking back. So thank you for being honest about how you didn't have it all planned at that time

Kees Jan Boorsma: 23:44

I had to prepare myself. For every conversation. I was nervous. I prepared myself once again. I tried to do everything to get the job to find out later that the crucial elements were those that were already there. And those were the part of my journey.

Andy: 23:59

Super. And so when you got to Peugeot, Netherlands for the first time, you felt like you were in the right place. This was say a bit more about why that was

Kees Jan Boorsma: 24:10

dealing with, outside with the dealers, my direct superiors, my colleagues, they really invested time and money in our integration in the in the company that we were sent to Paris because it was a French activity in the Netherlands. So the headquarters, of course, were in Paris, you felt welcome. And it was just a nice environment. It's hard to explain, but it was not only the brain part that was satisfied, but also the heart that was fully satisfied.

Andy: 24:40

Yeah, with cars. When you work in the automotive industry. You do get very close to the products and you get to drive them you get exposed to them. You get caught up in the excitement in a way that maybe you don't so much in other industries, I don't know. You had early exposure to leadership when you did your Military service that was a young age and you were officer so you had a responsibility for 30 people very useful to get that I think, at an early age, and

Kees Jan Boorsma: 25:12

I really learned a lot over there, how to manage troops, not so motivated people that also did the tour of duty. And they didn't have that nice perspective that I had. So yeah, and making them, helping them within the system, making the best of it. That was the nice part that these 12 months for soldiers, it was 12 months that it wasn't time wasted. But they also had the possibility to learn something to make something of it. That's what I tried to communicate. And,

Andy: 25:43

yeah, obviously, there are some benefits in the military, because you have very strong structure hierarchy, people are used to doing what they're told, however, in this situation, you had the challenge that they didn't want to be there necessarily, they hadn't chosen this job. This was this was a compulsory period of time. And so that would make it more difficult and require you to find some inner motivation helped motivate them when they weren't necessarily keen to be

Kees Jan Boorsma: 26:16

And a very nice example. We also had during there, their training period, because from this 12 months, they were two months, they got this the standard training, and 10 months, they were operational, doing some specific job. Part of one of this exercises was a march to the beach, and then through the water, but fully loaded. And I found out the best way to do that, because they didn't know that the trucks were waiting at around the corner. So they thought they had to go back 20k totally wet. I knew the trucks were round the corner, but how to get these guys into the water. I was the first who went in, and they just followed. So instead of standing on the shore, telling them what to do, I was the first in the water. And I can tell you, that wasn't a party. But it worked

Andy: 27:03

That is a great story Kees Jan, a great example of leading from the front in this case. Excellent. So you had also I imagine at a fairly early age responsibility for 12 dealers? Yep. And how did you find that?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 27:19

you just mentioned the structure of the military service, where a command is a command, and you have to obey, dealing with dealers who are independent enterpreneurs. They run their own business, of course, in this franchise situation. In those days, certainly, there was no multi branding, they totally dependent on the brand Peugeot. But nevertheless, if you got hundred cars that your boss says, You have to get rid of, no one of these 12 dealers was forced to buy one of these hundreds, how do you motivate them to buy one of these cars that have the wrong accessories, wrong kind of engine, wrong colour, or whatever, or just an old model running out soon to be replaced by an you know, you know, the model year story. And then I learned well, you have to invest, it's giving and taking. And if you're only taking, you can never expect something back. So I learned that you have to negotiate and the moment that they have something they expect you to do take it serious. So not only fighting for your boss being in their showroom, but also fighting for them when you're sitting in the office with your boss, speaking about their problems, that somehow I managed pretty well. So my dealers were extremely happy with me, not all but the majority. So my annual evaluations, they look very good. Because you have to manage people, you have to motivate them in your interest, but also in their own interests. So you have to find the Win Win, or the almost win win, or at least the level where you are both as happy as happy can be. That's something I learned by listening. I think by respecting them. I've always had loads of respect for these men and women working long days, many hours. Not always easy dealing with a manufacturer importer. That's when they think they have a good idea. You dealer, you have to execute and transform this, this idea into a success before the headquarter in Paris knows. So all these kinds of things. Moving in between there I somehow I always found place.

Andy Follows: 29:29

How ambitious were you?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 29:31

I'm very competitive, but I will not push to the limits. I don't go over buddies. If a dealer says no and his arguments are valid. I take his no and I will not just take one extra car then to find out that this car is hurting him afterwards. Seriously. I never pushed dealers to get in a direction or to a place where I would know that later we both would regret it so yes, very competitive, but no no bloods in the eye. Ah, no, I had colleagues just for winning a contest. Because those days were loads of contests, their best district manager of the month is things like that. I always said, Okay, this is the best I can get. I will have the benefits later. Because one day, they will say, Kees Jan we help you? Were the officer. No, no, you let me down. It worked with 70% of the dealers. 30%, they were just difficult didn't work. But you don't need to 100 percent, you can also have the 80 and be very successful. So

Andy: 30:32

in terms of your own career, aspirations, how long term were you thinking there?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 30:39

I knew that my career should be in sales, especially Peugoet gave me lots of opportunities to do extra studies that gave me time to develop myself. So I spent quite some time in marketing studies. And after two and a half year of being a regional manager, they already asked me if I could imagine a career in marketing. So I only had to say yes, there were no promises. There was no fixed planning. Until the moment that I was after a presentation. The dealer presentation of the Peugeot 309 was not the most sexiest Peugeot on Earth. Somebody had to present it. They asked me to do it. So it was for dealers only. So it was in smaller groups. And after one of these presentations, I'm in the toilet. And my friends director, he comes in, he says, Monsieur Boorsma, we have to talk about your career in marketing. I will see you next week. And indeed, I got a invitation. A week later, he told me that I would become the assistant of the marketing director with the perspective of becoming marketing director soon after, because my boss, the marketing director, he will take the place of the sales director, and the sales director, he was planned to go to Paris. So it was announced. So it was structured, they made the planning but obviously the French director, you want to tell everybody so he told me over the toilet.

Andy: 32:05

This is the first it's the first time we like to have authenticity, we like genuine stories that you never know where that next job opportunities going to come from and it might be the guy standing next to you

Kees Jan Boorsma: 32:17

So what did I learn, don't be shy when you go to the toilet with your French boss, because perhaps he has a good message.

Andy Follows: 32:26

Let me take a moment to tell you about our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by ASKE Consulting who are experts in executive search, resourcing solutions and talent management across all sectors of the automotive industry in the UK and Europe. I've known them for almost 20 years and I can think of no more fitting sponsor for Career-view Mirror, they're the business we go to at Aquilae when we're looking for talent for our clients and for projects that we're working on. ASKE was founded by Andrew McMillan, whose own automotive career includes board level positions with car brands and leasing companies. All ASKE consultants have extensive client side experience, which means they bring valuable insight and perspective for both their employer and candidate customers. My earliest experience of working with Andrew was back in 2004, when he helped me hire regional managers for my leasing Sales Team at Alphabet. More recently, when Aquilae was helping a US client to establish a car subscription business. ASKE C onsulting was alongside as helping us to develop our people strategy and to identify and bring onboard suitable talent. Clients we've referred to ASKE have had an equally positive experience. Andrew and the team at ASKE are genuinely interested in the long term outcomes for you and the people they place with you. They even offer the reassurance of a two year performance guarantee, which means they have skin in the game when working with you. If you're keen to secure the most talented and high potential people to accelerate your business and gain competitive advantage, do get in touch with them and let them know I sent you. You can email Andrew the team at Hello@askeconsulting.co.uk or check out their website for more details and more client feedback at www.Askeconsulting.co.uk. ASKE is spelt A S K E. You'll find these contact details in the show notes for this episode. Okay, let's get back to our episode. You then moved into the marketing area and beginning of your marketing career.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 34:30

So advertising. There was also the part with the light commercial vehicles. Funnily enough that was not sales that was marketing. In those days, there was distribution and there was products. So almost all the Ps from the marketing Ps that you learned in school or in university, somehow were presence in my departments. Yeah. Next important part of my journey, because it was the department that had most of its contacts with Paris, because product is Paris, I started my marketing career doing the ordering on a IBM 35 something machine with this matrix color. Green. Yeah, with these floppies, it was a very specific programming language. And you had to do your planning of your your ordering, you send it with DHL and those days, another company who sent it to Paris every third week of the month. And this was your production planning for n plus two. But it was also Paris. So advertising, Paris, prediction, Paris distribution, Paris, light commercial vehicles, also mostly Paris. So

Andy Follows: 35:44

two things happening, then one you're getting, you stepped up in terms of the altitude, if you like that you're looking at things from you've got much more perspective over broader parts of the business, and you're getting all this exposure to the headquarters

Kees Jan Boorsma: 36:00

And still affecting the life of the dealers. Because if you make mistakes with production planning, and you ordered 100 cars in the wrong color, your former colleagues have to get rid of these cars and your former dealers somehow have to take them to get rid of them in finding the customer. So

Andy: 36:18

and you would understand that better than most because you've been there, you've got those relationships, you know, what are the consequences of getting this right or wrong,

Kees Jan Boorsma: 36:28

and also the natural trends of dealers in those days, but probably also nowadays, complaining about our advertisements that it was not good enough for sales that we were only focusing on image that the dealer he could not live on image and could only live from sales, which is not totally true. But I understood quite a few of their comments and complaints. And I was now in a situation in situation in dealing with that, and trying to do it slightly different or better or whatever. Or at least speaking with France about these kinds of reactions that they mostly were not aware of.

Andy Follows: 37:05

Yeah, so you're in the same way that you used to feed back to your managers what was happening for the dealer, it's now getting the opportunity to feed into the headquarters into the marketing team, the headquarters, the dealer perception of their advertising and their marketing activity.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 37:22

Exactly. And then all in French, because Paris in those days, nobody spoke one word English or Dutch. And I was not speaking one word French. So for the first serious meeting with a lady from the product department, I asked my boss, are you joining for me to do the translations? He said No, You have to organize yourself. So that's when I learned that I had to invest in learning the French language as soon as possible. Yeah. So if you're motivated, that helps.

Andy: 37:57

So how did you do that?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 37:59

Well in beginning because you need time, it's learning by doing. And I could not say okay, I take four months leave. So they gave me one week to go to the institute that this kind of after one week, you you are able to do the basics in French. But most of the job was during the evening, prepare my my discussion with the French lady, writing it all down, first in Dutch, and then trying to get the right translation in French. Then exercises in front of the mirror, and then next day to see if it all worked out. And it worked. Somehow it worked out. The lady she mostly understood what I what I was trying to communicate what we needed what we wanted. Yeah, after a year, two years, you're not French. It's not fluent. But you speak at least the French language that within the company is good enough to do the necessary business. But I can tell you it was a difficult start. And even if it wasn't warm in my office, I was sweating.

Andy: 39:05

Yeah, I can imagine. So how did this progress?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 39:09

Well, I somehow kept on doing the good things. Then after two years there was another move. M y boss who was doing the sales, he went to Paris to become the general manager of publicity worldwide. And I got his job sales director. So I switched from marketing back to sales.

Andy Follows: 39:32

So now you're very well equipped salesperson. Yep. Now or head of sales.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 39:36

Yep. With one clear mission in those days in the Netherlands. The big issue was how to reduce the number of dealerships in reducing Interbrand competition. So with my marketing background, and my marketing contacts and my contacts in Paris, some of my own skills and some very good colleagues that helped me, we managed to make a plan to go back from and more than 200, dealers to slightly above hundred. So canceling dealer contracts, making New Dealer areas, bigger areas, with dealerships with more logic locations to generate traffic. But basically, the idea was to increase potential profitability of the dealership by reducing unnecessary costs. And also third party unfair competition, because the Netherlands is very small, and a big city like Utrecht or Amsterdam, it was surrounded by little dealerships who had low cost of infrastructure, but they had the same purchasing conditions, you know what happened, they had super service. So they gave the cars almost for free, I exaggerate, with lots of rebates, because they had much less costs as a dealer in the in the city, where the square meters are more expensive, where it's more difficult to find people also in those days. So long story short, we tried to increase not only dealer profitability, but also to protect the dealers that had high investment running in most expensive areas where it also for the brand was important that we had a good representation.

Andy Follows: 41:09

Yeah, so you had to create a bit more fairness

Kees Jan Boorsma: 41:12

Make more fairness, a bit more logic, and sometimes cancelling contracts, sometimes motivating smaller dealers from the, let's say, just around the big city areas to motivate them to go into the into into the city to take over. Because not in every big city, we had super dealers, there were smaller dealers just around, they had everything to take over. But you had to motivate them, because they also knew that it was much more risk in the big city to operate as a dealer, than just around the corner, let's say 10 kilometers outside the bigger city. And then that is where it helped that I had a, I guess a good reputation within the dealer network. So it was a dirty job. We were supported by the dealer Council, but with every dirty job, somebody has to do the execution. So somebody had to go to the dealers and tell them about their fate. That was the part of canceling contracts. Of course, you have to go to other dealers to motivate them to grow to take over. As I said early, you can't make everybody happy. But crucial was that I had a very good relationship it really what we call in Germany,[.......} so the eyes were at the same level. So we will look we always were looking each other in the eyes. There was no, he was important. The dealer Council President, I was important. He was my sparring partner. I was a sparring partner. There were negotiations outcome, sometimes clear, sometimes open. But there was respect. And due to the respect at the end, there were solutions, which were for both sides acceptable.

Andy Follows: 42:48

Yeah. And so other moves, there's international roles. So I'm conscious of wanting to make sure we don't miss out on some of that. So is it a good time to go to the next?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 43:00

Yeah because basically, this is, once again, it all makes sense, looking back, because normally with my career path, as it was, in 2000, end of 2000, I could have become managing director of a small country, but they had a bigger country with a bigger issue. Germany, right, they were basically doing in the process of what I did last three years as a sales director in Holland, restructuring, but not not neglecting the market share and the sales volumes. So playing the three balls. So instead of proposing a small country, they propose me to go to Saarbruecken Peugeot headquarters, and they propose me to become a sales director. And in those days, it was not very common to say No, you said yes, thank you. Thank you so much. So I went to Germany, much bigger country, much more staff, certainly extensive with hundreds of people working for me, when I left Germany to work in quite a few less. There were five regional directors when I started, when I left all the Salesforce itinerants, they were in their home office. So I did quite a few things over there. But basically, the same as in the Netherlands, reorganizing the dealer network, making sure that the sales targets were reached that the market share because there's these are two, they are correlated, but market share is always chosen when there is a high volume markets and then vice versa. If the manufacturer wants you to go for the volumes. It's mostly when the market is small. So they play the game with you. But we managed both. The good thing was in Germany, it was planned off an internet or a European project where Germany was playing a key role, had a fantastic name of Heute 2005 today 2005 The project started somewhere end of the 90s and And the idea was to have a market share of four point something in 2005. And it had a very strict planning. Plan was developed with the assistance of McKinsey. So it was a serious thing. And my job was with many other colleagues to make this plan work.

Andy: 45:19

And you would not have had the same personal reputation with the dealers in Germany that you had in the Netherlands. So you've got a similar difficult job to do that you've proven you could do, but now, it's almost okay, but do it without the relationship and the reputation

Kees Jan Boorsma: 45:37

Not totally. Okay, because dealer networks, they have this international dealer council. So the German president, when they knew my name, he contacted certainly the Dutch president. So at least he knew that the guy who was coming was not so bad. So that happened before the rest. Yes, you're right, I had to start all over again. But I was I was really lucky. Because Germans, they do not have a problem with people from the Netherlands, they think we are nice, we are friendly, we are about a call luker. So we are flexible, we are friendly. We're not taking ourselves too serious. So we are easy to speak with. So it was easy for me to make contacts. And I did not change my behavior, I remained the same person. And I find out good news travels fast. In Germany, in those days, every every week, I had some dealer meeting somewhere in the country, I visit so many dealers, and just by visiting the dealer in his dealership in his showroom, in his workshop, being there listening to them, telling them what your mission is, of course, because you have to be honest with them. But just

Andy Follows: 46:48

That's such a good story. Yeah. So important to effect this all together, gave me a good start. And, of course, if you have to cancel the dealership contract, they're not going to like you, although in the negotiations afterwards, when they have to give to another dealer, then sometimes they said what was good that you were involved, because that made it made the negotiations much easier. But also here, if the majority of the dealers is happy with or more or less happy with the way you you act and the way you react and the way you're treating them once again, respect. And I can tell you I was tough. When I went to South Africa, they checked with him with a German president. And he said, Well, he is as mean as a dog when it concerns business. But as a human being, he's extremely friendly. And I can separate I still can I can separate these two very well, with dealers, with suppliers, with bosses, but also with my own staff. It's so it's so interesting. If you respect people and check them on for instance, a guy who's doing somewhere in the distribution department, what I think not so exciting job. And I wonder why he comes exactly at eight and why he leaves exactly at four, and still happy. Ask the guy. And then this guy that I have mine told me that he was in Zabrucker. He was the local head of the fire service. And the guy as a volunteer, he was in charge of more people than I was managing as a sales director. So this guy only had a job, because he needed the money. And his passion was something completely different. If you know such things, you treat people differently, and you respect them also in a very different way. Because he did 100% job. And he had he had more potential, but he didn't want to. So I was just asking him and pulling it out of him. Why don't you want to do something extra, get a better job, more money, you can do it. People respect you. And then he told me this story. And I said to you win in fact, I have nothing to offer you're right. understand the whole person, not just your impression of a person from the role that they happen to have in your team.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 49:08

It was not my role collecting the stories on a permanent basis. But if I had an issue with somebody, I always try to know more about the person to better understand his or her position because sometimes in a negotiation, it just makes a difference. Not always, but most of the times.

Andy Follows: 49:27

Excellent. So you mentioned South Africa. What was the transition? How did that happen? Yeah, just share the story. Right?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 49:34

In those days at Peugeot five years was the max for an expat activity and I was not a classical expat. They called us people like me transnationals because I was basically managed to from the Netherlands. I had a kind of

Andy Follows: 49:48

And how did you feel about that as an option? local contract, but Social Security for instance, that was still paid through the Netherlands. So I was with one leg in the Netherlands with the other leg I was in Germany or in South Africa. But for whatever reason, three, four years was the max. In my case, it was already a little bit more because of this project and in 2005. But in 2004, something happened, which became later, more or less the standard mode of the way PSA worked, they changed the sitting general manager for another one for not good reasons. Because the guy they replaced, he was stubborn, he was not easy from a headquarter perspective. But he had his job in under control. And we were heading for the exact result, but he was replaced. And with the replacement, basically, instead of going up in a direction that the initial plan was aiming for, it went in the other direction. And of course, in those days, they denied that, but for me, it was clear. And I just mentioned the fact that this person could leave Germany, it was also a perhaps for me a good time, because we were working four years, closely together. And then starting with a new director, I said, it might be better that you start with somebody that replaces me, then you have a new team. I didn't argue the decision, of course, that I did it later, I can do it now. But in those days, I said, you know, he goes, I'm here as a kind of linking pin for a certain period. But then please it's time for me for something new. And then they started looking and I got South Africa.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 51:34

Ask my wife

Andy Follows: 51:35

I was about, I was about to say how did your wife feel?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 51:41

We got the got the news during winter sports. I know exactly where we were I got a phone call from my boss. Great news, you get your country. Oh, and where's the where's the journey going to ? I said, Well, you might you may guess it's a country, a country where they speak your language. I don't have a clue. And he said ah South Africa. They speak Dutch. Not they don't speak Dutch. The official language is English. And there are more than 10 different African languages and various the language [name] the[name] speak. That's a kind of Dutch, but it's a language that developed 1500, 1600 in its own direction, but okay, he thought it would make me very happy. I said, OK, South Africa, nice. I have to have to check. What can you tell me, he said not a lot, but we do it later, so I told my wife, and she got a very pale skin and she only said I'm going to check tomorrow on the internet. And if you in those days, if you type Johannesburg, the first words that Google found for you was crime and crime rates. She wasn't very happy. Long story short Peugeot gave us one week to visit the country and to make up our minds. And after one week, we were convinced to go

Andy Follows: 52:59

What convinced you then

Kees Jan Boorsma: 53:01

what convinced my wife especially that was not so bad as the internet made her belief, there was a good international school for the children. The other country made a very good impression, my colleague who was in charge there made it clear that if you refrain from doing stupid things, then it's a very pleasant, nice country to live in and to work in also with a new challenging element. So basically, at the end, it was a decision, yes, we go for it, we try it. And we'll see where it ends. And I can tell you, it ended like probably the best four years. Ask our son, ask my wife, ask myself,

Andy: 53:43

that's a really good example of something that you could perceive as challenging, maybe not the most desirable, not a first choice, but then delivered

Kees Jan Boorsma: 53:54

And just to make use to make the best of it. Because it was a it was a small activity, my predecessor had just started after a long period within the local importer. So the volume compared with my driven volumes, they were very small. What I in Germany did in one day, that was sometimes monthly volume in South Africa. But for the rest, it was very complicated. You had to deal with so many things that had nothing to do with your standard job description. You had HR issues, of course, you had the security, you had legal issues, you had tax issues. For instance, the HR issue, broad based black economic empowerment, that was the policy that already in those days made it difficult for me to start to get a working work permit, because they basically wanted black people to get these kinds of jobs. It also meant if you had a vacancy, you were forced to find, I would say non white people first. So that's already a very complicated issue. Then you have lots of people in your company with very different cultural backgrounds because you have so many different cultures in South Africa. So, even for me capable of integrating in other cultures adapting within this country, it came from all directions. You had still the apartheid in the background. You had the English language and the people that had more English white background, you had to the white with the side of the border background, the party English party, Dutch. And it all came together on your, your little headquarter. You had clients that if they were not happy, they did not go to dealership with their car. They were standing in front of your headquarter. And in those days, it was not unusual that these not so happy customers had a gun in their car. I want to speak with the managing director. We had a dealership in in Swaziland. We were not aware that we had a dealership in Swaziland. So we went to Swaziland to Mbabana, the capital of Swaziland to find out that a very creative guy there opens a Peugeot dealership. A blue box no joke.

Andy Follows: 56:06

Wow. Yeah, that is entrepreneurial.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 56:10

Yeah. I can tell you stories about this country and the people. It's really incredible. But the problem was, we also had to deal with fiscal things, there was the system with import duties. If you were producing locally, you did not have to deal with this import duties. But if you were importing cars, you had to buy import certificates, and import certificates you could get from companies that were producing locally, that could be a car manufacturer, but they were not likely to sell their import certificates to competitive brands. So we had, for instance, companies from Croatia that were producing parts in South Africa. And through their exports, we got their export value as import certificates to lower our import duties. But that's a total different department. And it had a total permanent impact on your purchasing price of your car. Yeah, we were dealing with a market that was forecasted for 500,000. But in the end, was much smaller. I had bosses in Paris who believe longer in these 500,000, then we told them, and that's a lesson learned, being right, or being proven right by the person in front of you are two things. So the sales issue of the sales was a permanent problem. Selling less cars, we have problems with our dealers and a dealership in South Africa, the dealer could terminate the contract in 24 hours. And you could tell him, Hey, but we have a contract with the two years source. Then he said go to courts waiting list three years. So that was my very dynamic, professional world. running behind the events dealing with issues, we were hunted by the SARS, the South Africa revenue services, because with these export certificates, they thought they had found something that looked like fraud. Basically, it was a French speaking person who has written something in English. But in such poor English, that the meaning of what he wrote was so wrong, that the SARS could think that they were right. So there was a I don't know how many million risk somewhere hanging in the air that would hit us. So I was busy with many things. But long story short, where in Germany, I was on the career waves getting higher, higher, higher, higher, higher in South Africa, same person, same qualities, smaller waves going in the wrong direction.

Andy: 58:42

All of a sudden, what's happened is the external environment in which you are working is much more volatile, much more complex. And as you so beautifully put it the same person who was scoring well, in the previous environment is now challenged. The level of challenge has just been increased, a real test

Kees Jan Boorsma: 59:05

And what did not help this difficult periods. It would certainly have been more convenient for me in communication with headquarters, if I would have had more French genes than Dutch genes. So I got I got discussions where I thought, how can you be so stupid. But I later understand. My boss somehow told his boss that South Africa would one day be good for 500,000 cars. And I was telling him with all the facts with all the arguments. I was even sending them a forecast from Toyota and Volkswagen who were in those days, together more than 50% of the markets. They did not reach the boss of my boss, because he just ignored it. Because he also had this problem with South Africa. And then you're into a situation where it's so so political, and if you're not friends, you don't have all your contacts. And you also have your then your Dutch genes. You're telling me that I'm wrong, that's not true, then you start doing things where you later say, okay,

Andy: 1:00:06

all of that hinges or it comes to a point with individuals ego, a little bit of ego, a little of their own personal career, they're invested. And this has a potential to cost them money, cost them

Kees Jan Boorsma: 1:00:21

credibility,

Andy Follows: 1:00:22

credibility

Kees Jan Boorsma: 1:00:23

And of course, I reflected my own behavior. And there was a moment where I said, I can't tell my dealers these kinds of stupid stories, they depend on us. And it's also their future, I have more respect for their position, as for the position of my bosses in Paris, and then you start dealing in in the wrong way. It's it's not proactive, bringing people together, you start to excuse one side to the other. So long story short, after four years, this time, they took initiative telling me that they were looking for a new challenge, and that the second use game was well covered. And basically, they were right, that I was lacking very good contacts with headquarters. So it might be good for my career, to accept a job in Paris headquarters, right? My wife's Yes, Paris. Although she was really very happy in South Africa, as well, but she said, Oh, Paris, great. And I said, Well, Paris headquarters less great, but it's my tour of duty. So I accepted it, they found a job for me. When I left the plane, for my first day, after four and a half years in South Africa, from my first day in Paris, when I entered headquarters, I went to my new boss, and he laughed this occasion, I have good news, I just quit. So I'm going to leave PSA, I'm going to do something else. And to be quite honest, your job was one of my projects. And I'm not sure if my successor has the same vision. So I have an office for you a small office that you can sit, I don't know what you can do, there is a guy sitting in front of you, he has a nice job, ask him what he is doing. Keep yourself busy. Make sure that the removal from South Africa to Paris works well. HR will contact you afterwards. So I started in Paris, basically, without a job. So it was it was the best removal. When my family came in Paris, they were so happy. But it took me a few months to get a real job. An old colleague, he was doing a project for the whole as a group for PSA to deal with control of product diversity, which is an issue because you can produce many cars, many versions, but production becomes more and more expensive with the amount of personality you have. So the idea was to create a system to limitate the versions per model in such a way that it was still acceptable for the final customer. Project took us 12 months, we managed it well. And then it was close. And then they were once again, busy finding a job for me. And then I said you know what, I can help you. I did wholesale, I did headquarters, I can imagine doing retail as well. Through my contacts, I heard that there might be a vacancy in Germany, I speak fluent German. We will all we could imagine going back to Germany. So I got a proposal to start in the in the German retail organization, being a charge off shift around the retail, basically our own dealer network that we had in Germany in those days,

Andy Follows: 1:03:37

did you own the stores then

Kees Jan Boorsma: 1:03:39

we owned the stores, about 25% of the sales volume of Citreon was our own activity, about 1/3 of the activities of Peugeot was manufacturer owned. Basically I was in those days when I was in Germany. I was the ones with others allocated areas to our own network. So and now, I came back being at the other side, also on the retail side dealing with them.

Andy: 1:04:07

Yeah, and a good example of how sometimes you have to help your employer solve the problem that is you.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 1:04:16

Yeah true. In those days, I was only one of a lot of people because in this period, it was 2010 2015. We had so many big bosses. They came from all other companies, no automotive background, the first one that really started making a difference. That's the actual big boss of all of Stelontis. That's Carlos Tavares. He did a very proper job. But he did it in a way where I said, it's not my company anymore. Being a boss of hundreds of people, always having a few of them not happy with the job. Some of them I always told hey, if you're not happy with the company, you can't change the company. I can't change the company. So I suggest that you start looking for another job. So somewhere in 2013, already, I was standing in front of the mirror. And I was telling this to myself, that it would become perhaps the time to admit that I'm not happy anymore with the company as it is. Many of my old colleagues that I grew up with, they were in the same situation like I was, or they were already pre retired, or they found another job. So I said, it's time for me to go. So

Andy: 1:05:30

after how many years was that?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 1:05:32

27

Andy Follows: 1:05:33

27 years, you've made the decision yourself?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 1:05:36

Yeah. Which makes it very easy. So no regrets, no hard feelings. I still speak positively about the company.

Andy Follows: 1:05:43

No that's good. Yep. And you've had some great learnings.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 1:05:46

Exactly.

Andy Follows: 1:05:47

Lots of experience, amazing relationships, an exciting life journey for your wife and children as well to travel and experience the world.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 1:05:56

Oh, count your blessings.

Andy Follows: 1:05:58

Yes. And so what did you do after that?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 1:06:02

Well first of all, I was in Germany with my German background can't be that complicated to find a job. That was the first idea. The second idea in the back was perhaps starting something for myself. So becoming a inter interim manager or consultant, whatever. But wasn't that easy, because I found out that PSA was not the only company restructuring and reorganizing. So there was quite some supply on the German market, people like me, with better network in Germany. So I found out that it was it was not so easy as I thought it was. And then through a former Dutch contact, I ended up being independent. So as a consultant for nine months, that was in 2015. Slightly less than one year after I stopped with PSA they proposed me a job as a consultant in a project, merger and acquisitions kept me busy for nine months, I learned about data sets. So what you charge for a day what you charge for an hour, what you charged for a month, I had to deal with many other things that I did not deal with as an employee.

Andy Follows: 1:07:12

Yeah, yet more learning.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 1:07:14

Yeah. loads of stuff, learning, once again, acquisition, and then acquisition of yourself. And that's something totally different is the acquisition of just your products? Because now I was the product. I had to learn that also the hard way, partly, yep, must be honest. At the end, it worked out well, as a consultant, you're not busy on a permanent basis, it's unlikely. So in between jobs, you always have a few months. And the trick is that at the end of your actual assignments, that you do the right acquisition that you can start a few months after your assignment ends. That's worked out well til Corona time came.

Andy Follows: 1:07:55

Oh, did that put a stop to the consulting?

Kees Jan Boorsma: 1:07:58

Yes because all companies at the same issue. So no consultants needed. The biggest activity I had in those days was for Seat to Germany. That had to do with acquisition and acquisition, basically.

Andy Follows: 1:08:12

So face to face,

Kees Jan Boorsma: 1:08:14

And of course, Seat stopped the project. Then. I landed here in in our apartment with my wife also sitting here, my younger son who just came from the university and could not find a job because he would the day he left university, the closure in our country started so. And then you know, I decided, there is more than life. I started thinking about doing things that just make fun, do not necessarily bring you a salary or renumeration, or add a few contacts here. And that's helped me so I ended up here in Offenbach. Being a mentor for mostly younger people, starting up companies, smaller companies. That's what I'm doing now. And my passion where we spoke about earlier, sports, marathons mountain biking. In 2017. With my wife, we decided to do something together because most of sports I like it's with friends, or at least not with her. So we started rowing together. And that went fully out of control. So So, partly during Corona, and at the end of Corona, I got my trainer license here in in Germany. So I'm a fully licensed rowing trainer, coach. I have my rowing club where I do trainings in between trainings, I just row because it makes fun. I do it alone with my wife with friends. That's what we call pre retirement.

Andy Follows: 1:09:48

And so you only started rowing in 2017.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 1:09:51

Yeah, but, but the magic word here is preretirement. Corona gave me a few perspectives. about how the future could look like. And since money for quite a few reasons was not an issue, my wife was still working. And we decided, why make it complicated if there is an easier possibility. And the possibility was, as I said, to do, the things that make sense that make me happy, that make the people I'm helping happy people starting up a company who are in desperate need of almost everything. They have an idea, but around the idea, they need lots of supports, I can offer that. I do it for free. Makes me happy with rowing people that want to learn how to row. Our target audience is mostly somewhat older, so it's not so easy. So that's what I do. It's a great job, making people happy, getting something back, meeting new people, friends, friendship. It's a nice end of a career path. learning quite a few things about the world about all my bosses about the people working for me about myself, especially about myself. No hard feelings, no regrets happy.

Andy Follows: 1:11:08

That's good to hear. It's a lovely end to the story. Which brings us up to present day. Is there anything I haven't asked you Kees Jan, you've shared so many wonderful stories that have transferable lessons and insights for us. Is there anything I haven't asked you that you think, oh, we need

Kees Jan Boorsma: 1:11:29

I don't think so. But I guess if people to talk? No, managed to listen to this podcast for the full length, then I hope they think that the best message is at the end. What I think especially recommend people like me, who were driven by the very competitive spirit is not without a reason that I like sports, where you need a Garmin or even two where you measure i i have a Strava account where I'm very proud of. So I'm Yes, I'm competitive. I like to reach my targets. I'm very proud, I almost always reach my targets. That's why I was so popular. But there is more in life than only targets and at this at a certain age where the pyramid is getting smaller and smaller at the top, just before reaching that level, where you might fall off and not be part of the pyramid anymore. Start thinking about what's next. I've seen so many people losing their job, having no clue what to do, and becoming so sad and so miserable with theirselves and miserable with their environments and making other people's lives miserable. So don't be too serious. Realize that for everybody how good you are, that might be an end that you did not expect. So always have a plan B and plan B what you do when you're not the best man where you're not the one who always reaches targets where you become the problem of the company, have a plan B and accept the fact that there is more in life than only targets, dealers and cars. There is more look for it, you will find it.

Andy Follows: 1:13:10

Thank you so much indeed, for sitting with me and spending this time and for preparing beforehand. And it's been an absolute pleasure.

Kees Jan Boorsma: 1:13:19

You're the first one who got the whole story and now it goes public. So it's basically it's a scandal my wife will say no, she knows your story. And she knows I'm sitting here and it was a pleasure.

Andy Follows: 1:13:31

Thank you Thank you Kees Jan. You've been listening to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR with me, Andy Follows. Depending on your unique life experience, where you find yourself right now and your personal goals you'll have your own takeaways from Kees Jan's story. Some elements that stood out for me were he was not immediately sure what he wanted to do, he had to go out and explore some avenues before finding in automotive an industry that would bring him a fulfilling and rewarding career, that nothing was wasted from his early forays into economics, hotel school and military service. The learnings reputation and networks contributed to him securing and succeeding in later roles. There has been continuous learning throughout his career, not least the foreign languages he's needed to acquire in order to do business. As with so many of my guests stories, some of these opportunities came about through relationships and close friendships. If you'd like to connect with Kees Jan you'll find his contact details in the show notes to this episode. If you enjoy listening to my guest stories, please could you do me a favor and share an episode with someone you lead parent or mentor or perhaps a friend of yours who you think would also enjoy listening? Thank you to Kees Jan for joining me for our conversation. Thank you to our sponsors for this episode ASKE Consulting and Aquilae and thank you to the CAREER-VIEW MIRROR team without whom we wouldn't be able to share our guests life and career stories. And above all, thank you to you for listening