CAREER-VIEW MIRROR - biographies of colleagues in the automotive and mobility industries.

Heidi Bauer

• Andy Follows • Episode 18

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Heidi is Senior Vice President Customer Experience at NextCar. 

 After working as a consultant for Mercer in Dubai, and then as a self employed consultant in the U.S., the U.A.E. and Germany, Heidi chose Berlín to set up her first startup fromcash2car.com. She went on to co-found Otoz mobility before recently joining subscription startup NextCar. 

 Heidi has firmly secured her place as one of our industry’s rising stars.  We talk about her journey and we also talk about what’s required to start your own business, the shift from vehicle ownership to usership, the opportunities that exist in automotive to streamline and improve the customer experience and the staggering amount of debt on the shoulders of car driving consumers in the US alone. 

Lots of people are talking about subscription in mobility not as many are living it and delivering it. 

I hope you enjoy our conversation as much as I did and find it enlightening and inspiring. 

Why not follow us on Instagram @careerviewmirror where you can comment on the specific episodes that you have enjoyed.

To help you navigate the content we've separated it into chapters which work on Apple Podcasts and certain other streaming platforms.

This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by Aquilae. 

Aquilae exists to close the gap between capability and performance in the mobility industry, internationally.

For details of our forthcoming guests follow us:

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Email: cvm@aquilae.co.uk

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 Episode recorded on 14 June 2021

Heidi Bauer:

Three out of four women don't go to a car dealership alone. I mean that right there just shows you fundamentally that something is is wrong with this industry.

Andy:

Welcome to Career-view Mirror, the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers so far, sharing insights to help you with your own journey. Im your host, Andy Follows. Heidi Bauer, listeners after working as a consultant for Mercer in Dubai. And then as a self employed consultant in the United States, the UAE and Germany, Heidi chose Berlin to set up her first startup fromcash2car.com. She went on to co found Otoz mobility, before recently joining subscription startup NextCar. After only a relatively short career compared to some of my guests, Heidi has firmly secured her place as one of our industry's rising stars. We talk about her journey. And we also talk about what's required to start your own business, the shift from vehicle ownership to usership, the opportunities that exist in automotive to streamline and improve the customer experience and the staggering amount of debt on the shoulders of car driving consumers in the US alone. Lots of people are talking about subscription in mobility, not as many are living it and delivering it. I hope you enjoy our conversation as much as I did, and find it enlightening and inspiring.

Aquilae Academy:

This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by the Aquilae Academy. At the academy we turn Individual Development into a team sport. We bring together small groups of leaders from non competing organisations to form their very own Academy team. We build strong connection between team members and create a great environment for sharing and learning. We introduce the team to content that can help them tackle their current challenges. And we hold them accountable to take the actions that they decide at their priorities. We say we hold our team members feet to the fire of their best intentions. We do this internationally with teams across the world. If you'd like to learn more about the Academy, go to www.aquilae.co.uk.

Andy:

Hello, Heidi, and welcome. And where are you coming to us from today?

Heidi Bauer:

Good morning, Andy. I'm joining you from Santa Monica, California.

Andy:

Oh, that's so cool. My guests live in such amazing locations. And I'm lucky enough to have been to Santa Monica a few times in the in the recent year. So I know it's a very nice place. And how is it at the moment? Is it opening up? Are you able to make my main question is Can Can you go to the Hollywood Bowl?

Heidi Bauer:

You know, things are starting to open up again. But my next stop is definitely going to be London once things are open up there again, because that's where my little sister is.

Andy:

Lovely. We'll talk a little bit about in a second. So yeah, you're in you're in Santa Monica now. So in California, near LA. Where did your life journey start there? Where were you born?

Heidi Bauer:

I was born in Connecticut. I was born in Connecticut and have you know, gone through a lot of moves since then. Then Then now I'm finally here in California.

Andy:

That's I thought you'd been through a few months like because I obviously know a little bit about your journey already. And I was wondering how's that affected you tell us a little bit about growing up and what your childhood was like the family and the moves you made.

Heidi Bauer:

So I was born in Connecticut, and both of my parents are German. And we moved back and forth quite a little bit. So when I was younger, I also lived in Stuttgart, then back in Connecticut again. Then Berlin for a few years in between. And then I went to college outside of Boston. And after college, I moved to Dubai.

Andy:

Right. So quite a few moves to take into account there. And when you were Tell me a little bit about brothers and sisters. What was the family situation with siblings?

Heidi Bauer:

I have an older brother and a younger sister. The two most of the wonderful people in the world of course. Very, very, very lucky.

Andy:

Yeah. You have a lovely family. And when did were they all travelling together? Did you all do these moves together as when you were a child or were people in different places?

Heidi Bauer:

Yeah, no we did those moves together was you know my dad's career that took us to these different places. Since and, you know, I sort of continued my travels, you know, during college where I studied abroad and a couple of different places. I worked on some projects in Ghana, I studied abroad in Spain and Cairo. And then after that, I moved to Dubai. And I started working in consulting there travelled all over the region as well.

Andy:

Okay, well, we'll come to that shortly. say a little bit about your parents and what, because some of my listeners will know very well, who your father is and what he does, others will not. So please say a little bit about about George and about Louise. Yeah, my dad is also in the automotive industry. He was with Mercedes and then BMW, Tesla, and fair as well. And, you know, my

Heidi Bauer:

mom has also done just a range of different things. She has a yoga studio in in Munich. But it's also always, always on the go and doing exciting stuff.

Andy:

She's a wonderful, wonderful lady. To say, Hi, Louise. So be thrilled that we had some lovely times together in Santa Monica. So at school, what sort of a student were you, Heidi, we're good students.

Heidi Bauer:

Actually, you know, my third grade teacher recently came over and we had breakfast together here in Santa Monica. And you know what she said to me, she said, You were always so good with numbers, and you had most beautiful handwriting. So she's in her early 90s. Now. So she was my, you know, she was my teacher for two, three years in Connecticut. And she's actually German. So yeah, it was lovely to see her. So that that's what she remembered about me. We'll leave it at that. All right.

Andy:

Sounds like you had the bases covered. Brilliant with numbers and beautiful handwriting. What a great start. Did you enjoy school?

Heidi Bauer:

I think, yeah, I absolutely did. I mean, I think you know, of course, teenagers go through their rebellious phases as well. But overall,

Andy:

were you competing with your siblings?

Heidi Bauer:

No, not at all. There's a little bit of an age gap. So my brothers, you know, three and a half years older than me and my sisters, five years younger than me. And, you know, when I was little, I wanted a little sister more than anything in the world. So I always used to go to my mom and say, you know, I want a little sister. So there's no competition between us.

Andy:

That is that I have the same, that's the same. I was always going to my parents saying I wanted a little brother or sister because I was an only child. And after 14 years, I got one. So there's a gap between me and my brother. And so school was enjoyable. And when you were coming towards the end of school, when do you start to realise, okay, father's in the automotive business, you're in the automotive industry? When did you start to think that that might be a direction that you would go in?

Heidi Bauer:

Well, I mean, I started off my career working in Dubai, for Mercer consulting. And you know, after college, it was a wonderful experience to work in consulting, because you just get exposed to so many different projects, so many different organisations. So I had a really, really wonderful experience there. And especially working in Dubai, you know, I worked on projects across the region. So I walked worked on projects in Dubai and Abu Dhabi and Qatar, I went to Saudi, which was, you know, quite unusual, still, at the time as well for young woman even to be able to get a visa to go to Saudi. So I had, you know, these amazing experiences. But I knew that I wanted to start my own company. And in the automotive industry, there's just still so much to be done. That's just one of the last verticals to really be digitalized. So of course, you know, talking to my dad and different people in the industry about that, I think we all we all see that need to provide consumers with just a, a digital simple, transparent experience. And that's really why I started my first company.

Andy:

And when did you have the idea that you wanted to start your own business? Heidi, how old were you when you were having those thoughts? When you started, we're still at school. Were you still at uni? Or college? Or had you was this once you became a consultant, you started having those thoughts?

Heidi Bauer:

So I think we always, you know, in my family, we always bounced a lot of different ideas around so I don't think it was, you know, it was it was sort of a very natural progression. So But it became more serious once I was in consulting that I knew that I really wanted to start something on my own.

Andy:

Yeah, I've got two threads I'd like to follow up now. One is how you came to be in Dubai. So what was the motivation to go to Dubai and to join Mercer? How did that happen?

Heidi Bauer:

Gosh, I mean, I knew I wanted to. I knew I wanted to explore different parts of the world. You know, I always loved to travel, I just find those experiences so enriching. So I knew I wanted to do that. And Dubai just seemed like a great place to do that. And, you know, I had just the most wonderful experiences. I mean, like I said, You know, I travel a lot for work, but I also travelled a lot personally. So I, I travelled all across the region. So it was always a lot of fun.

Andy:

And where did you go to college?

Heidi Bauer:

I went to Bentley University outside of Boston.

Andy:

Was it after college that you went directly then to Dubai?

Heidi Bauer:

Yes, that was right after college, but actually in between, I went to India for a month, and I did my first yoga teacher training. And then after that, I went to Dubai. Yeah. And I ended up working for Mercer.

Andy:

Okay, so we're going to join you in Dubai in a moment. But first of all, I'm just thinking about the entrepreneur entrepreneurs and in your family. So tell me a little bit about your brother and sister.

Heidi Bauer:

So my brother has eight restaurants, in sort of the the South. So in Charlotte, Charleston, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Savannah. And they are obviously the best. I mean, I love going there. I just sit there all day long, and eat and drink. He has these wonderful restaurants. And he's he's opening more.

Andy:

And tell us about what the restaurants they are because some of my listeners will be very interested in food.

Heidi Bauer:

And they are also they're also Asian restaurants. So they're sort of Asian fusion. They started out more Vietnamese, but some of them have sushi. It sort of depends a little bit on the location.

Andy:

Thanks for that. And I look forward to meeting Greg one day and eating in in one of you haven't met him I haven't. He's the one sibling I haven't met. But I've heard I've heard a lot about him. And I'm very impressed by what he's achieved. And tell us a little bit about MiMi who I have met.

Heidi Bauer:

Mimi is in comedy. So she's going to start a Master's programme now in collaborative theatre. And she's in London, though. She is in London, which is why that's going to be my first stop when things open up again. I can't wait to see her. It's just been, you know, we talk every single day. But I you know, I haven't seen her in so long because of COVID. Now, so yeah, but at least we're connected through through WhatsApp and FaceTime and everything.

Andy:

Yeah. And obviously really excited to meet was to meet her and a little bit surprised, because I didn't know at first that she was a comedian. And that's an interesting, interesting role to have in the family. And my daughter is also an actor. So I have a obviously a big soft spot for for people in the industry. And I love comedy myself. So let's go back then to to Dubai, you've you've you moved to Dubai with Mercer. And you have it you're doing lots of different consulting projects around the region. Maybe were those automotive? Or were they in all sorts of different fields?

Heidi Bauer:

No, those were all sorts of different fields. So those were, you know, just across the board, finance, one was with the police department, all different sort of, I mean, a lot of things in Saudi Arabia, but really different projects across the board. You know, it was great to be exposed to so many different projects at such a young age. So I really enjoyed that part of consulting.

Andy:

I imagine you'd already had a lot of experience moving around. I did say was quite unusual to be a woman going into the middle east into Saudi, for example, how did you find that?

Heidi Bauer:

I always had very, very positive experiences. Overall, I think that there's certainly an awareness there about the inequality that still exists today. So overall, I always had very positive experiences.

Andy:

Yeah. And how long were you doing that role for?

Heidi Bauer:

Gosh, I was in Dubai for about four years.

Andy:

So what brought that to an end and what came after that?

Heidi Bauer:

After that, I started my own auto financial services platform in Berlin. So I launched from cash to car and you know, it's a fully digital process where the customer can go Online, apply for financing, complete the whole process online and then the financing amount gets checked gets transferred directly to their bank account. So then they can buy whatever car they want to buy. So again, the goal of it is just to make car buying just simple, digital, fair and transparent.

Andy:

So you are giving them you're putting them in a position of strength in when they went to buy their car, and also making it a very easy, seamless process for them. So tell us a little bit about your thought process from being in Dubai. And obviously, eventually, then moving to Berlin and setting up from cash to car. How long? Were you thinking about it? And was it a difficult decision to leave Dubai or just tell us a little bit about the length of the lead time, if you like, from thinking I'm going to go and start my own business? I want to go and do it in Berlin, need to leave here? And tell us a little bit about that? If you if you don't mind?

Heidi Bauer:

No, it wasn't a difficult decision. It was very easy. You know, Dubai was wonderful. And I had such an amazing experience there. But it is a very transient place, a lot of people don't stay, you know, for extended period. So I wasn't, you know, I wasn't planning on on staying there sort of, for the long term. And I, you know, I knew I wanted to start my own company, and I just saw that the automotive industry is just still in need of digitalization. So, you know, it was an easy decision. And it's just, you know, sort of continued to develop from there, because after from cash to car, you know, I've co founded another startup where we develop white label solutions for technologies related to mobility. So for car sharing, for peer to peer car sharing for digital retailing, as well. So everything in my career has really been a continuation of that really putting the customer at the heart of it and creating customer centric digital solutions.

Andy:

And why Berlin?

Heidi Bauer:

Berlin is a great city. It's a great city.

Andy:

No, suggesting it wasn't supposed to sound like it was an odd choice. It was more, given how international you were, you could have gone back to the US, you could have done it anywhere. And and you chose Berlin, and I thought it might be an opportunity to say a few things about what Berlin has and what's going on there.

Heidi Bauer:

I mean, yeah, Berlin is absolutely there's a lot happening in the startup scene there. So in terms of that, it absolutely made sense. You know, in Germany, there's a lot of automotive startups now. But when I was starting from cash to car, there weren't that many yet. So it was just a great way to pioneer something. And pioneer products. In Germany.

Andy:

How many years ago we talking? Id that you were starting this? Seven or eight years? Yeah, right. Right. So around 2014? Yeah, teen 2014. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And you make it sound so straightforward. So far, all sounds very straightforward. But I'm imagining there were some challenges that you encountered in in setting that up? Am I right? Or was it really, so easy?

Heidi Bauer:

you know, I think when you're launching a startup, you have to just keep pushing forward. That's really what launching a company is all about, is realising that, that you can do anything, and that you're going to have to do everything in order for your company to be successful. Because funds are limited. And there's so much to do. And there's so many different ways to approach it. And I think that's sort of one of the exciting things about a startup. And also one of the challenges that you do just have to really get into every piece of the business in order to push it forward. And you mentioned then that you'd co founded another startup. Was that what happened after from cash to car or is there anything else in between? So I still have from cash to car, and then I also co founded Otoz. Yeah.

Andy:

So how did you come to be involved in Otoz? Tell us a little bit about that story.

Heidi Bauer:

Otto. So I've known Naeem Ghauri. I've known him for many, many years. And then we reconnected at a conference in Munich. And we just sort of clicked, we've been talking about so many different things for years now, in terms of, you know, how to improve the customer experience. And you know, nyeem is one of the founders of netsol. And that's all you know, is also just, you know, works with a lot of the OEMs across the world. So it really made sense for him, as well as a continuation of net saw to provide mobility solutions, front end mobility service solutions that

Andy:

are very customer centric, which is what we've been doing at autos and you talked about having to, you're constantly pushing forward. Heidi, when you're in that situation, what was some of the barriers that you managed to overcome in order to be able to get from cash to car off the ground and autos off the ground?

Heidi Bauer:

I mean, I don't know about I don't really see things in terms of barriers. That's I guess that's not any sort of challenge that you work away at, I guess I never look at it in terms of it being a barrier, right? It's just those are the things we have to focus on and that we keep pushing forward. So I, you know, I don't know about specific barriers, really, that's not really my vocabulary.

Andy:

Okay. Maybe there's a better way to phrase it, then which were the real nuts you had to crack or the successes that you remember that the elements that took a little bit longer than others to solve? Does anything stand out like that?

Heidi Bauer:

I mean, I think it's really, every single day, you have to just be persistent. And everything that you do when you launch a startup, because creating, you know, something brand new without a customer base without operations without the infrastructure. You know, it's I think it's just all about persistence in my mind, and continuing continuing to push forward. Even when you feel like you've been doing that for, you know, a week, three months. So I think that's, that's to me that when starting companies is really all about,

Andy:

so that persistence is very important. And take a couple of examples, you mentioned there, so whether it's, it's finding customers, how do you, how do you launch a brand and attract customers from from scratch like that?

Heidi Bauer:

I mean, I think that there's, you know, there's depending on what company it is, because from cash to car was obviously direct to consumer company. autos is a business to business company. So we were talking to a lot of the OEMs, we were talking to banks, you know, we just launched a digital retailing product in the US with a major OEM here, which is being rolled across out across their dealership. So it really depends, but I think that, you know, I do think it's all about being authentic. So with from cash to car, you know, it is all about looking at what drives you to start that company. And then really bringing that to the consumer and seeing if that resonates with the consumer.

Andy:

So what how did you go about doing that,

Heidi Bauer:

I really just thought about what I felt was still missing in, in automotive at the end of the day. And that's what I build all of my companies around. And that's how I approach everything that I do in this sector. And at the end of the day, we know that in automotive, Buying a car is an uncomfortable experience, you know, consumers don't like going to a car dealerships they don't. it's it's it's complex to figure out what the right financing or leasing option is for consumers, especially when you're not in the automotive industry. Figuring out what the right car is for you is complex as well, three out of four women don't go to a car dealership alone. I mean, that right, there just shows you fundamentally that something is is wrong with this industry, if consumers feel so alienated by the buying process. So that's really sort of the lens that I've always looked at things from is how can we, how can we continue to improve the customer experience?

Andy:

And how did you get that? Do you remember getting that first customer from cash to car? Do you remember when you first signed someone up?

Heidi Bauer:

You know, I still remember the day I launched and I got I got applications immediately? You know, I kept checking obviously. And you know, it's funny, because one customer he just emailed me the other day again. And you know, I sort of know his whole car behind this point, because he's fine. It's, you know, three or four cars through us.

Andy:

So yeah. And so I can understand different for the auto story, where is a business to business sale, but particularly curious on how you break into a market with a new brand. That's a direct to consumer brand, because my perception is that can be very expensive and very difficult to break through. So well done for D and I'm not sure. I'm still not sure that I've understood quite how you got to to attract the customers we using social media in those days, or?

Heidi Bauer:

Yeah, I mean, I would always I mean, I think you have to use you have to use a lot of different channels to build a brand. You know, I think part of it is being authentic and you know, identifying what is it that customers are still missing? What is it that customers would benefit from? But yeah, of course, I mean, use a lot of different channels, whether it's Google ads, social media, and you can use influencers, you know, I mean, there's you have to sort of just go at it from all angles and really, you know, to really understand what resonates with consumers.

Andy:

Yeah. So it's one thing to build the build the system and the processes and another thing to get awareness and attract customers. So well done for doing that, when it came to building it, did you? Did you leverage outsource partners to create the process and systems for your from cash to car? Or were you doing it all in house?

Heidi Bauer:

No, I work with partners as well. And I mean, I think at the end of the day, you know, it really is everything is always all about the people. I mean, there's so many just brilliant people out there. And it's all about finding the people who are passionate about what they're doing, and and working with them. So I think that's really the the key ingredient to success is is collaboration.

Andy:

And how have you gone about that, then? What's your approach to making sure you find the right people? Are we to my partners, or into my employees? Or both?

Heidi Bauer:

Both? Absolutely. I do think, you know, I've, I feel like I've always been really, really lucky and really blessed in that area that I've always been surrounded by such wonderful people and every part of my life. But I do think it's it's about just working closely with people understanding them understanding what their strengths are understanding what your own strengths and weaknesses are, make sure that the right people can really compliment you as well.

Andy:

Has it so you're surrounded by wonderful people? And has it been a case then that as you've gone through your career so far, when you've needed a partner for to provide a certain service or to collaborate with there's been somebody in your network in in the environment that would easily come to mind as being the first person to speak to

Heidi Bauer:

add generally? Yes, I mean, generally, I have to say yes, but I do, you know, at times I am looking for, you know, people for a very specific role. And then I just, you know, I reach out and I sort of check on various forums, and then sometimes it is just, you know, sort of a lucky Google search that that helps you find the right person. So yeah, it's, it's a little bit of both, I guess.

Andy:

Yeah. No, we a lot of my guests talk about, they tell their career stories like this. And it's very apparent that the importance of networks and not burning bridges with people and maintaining strong relationships and building proactively building those networks, and what happens is, maybe they'll apply for one or two positions very early in their career, but then it tends to be very evident that they, they find themselves in positions that are suitable, they they know, their strengths, as you mentioned, and they play to their strengths, they do good work, they get recognised for doing good work, and then they get approached by someone else. Or if they decided, they usually have some idea of the direction they want to go in. And they find opportunities by talking to people not necessarily applying for foot positions. And the reason I asked the questions is to give if we've got young people listening, or people early on in their careers, just to get a real sense of how important that is, and how it's not enough just to be doing a good job, you need to be proactively working on your network and the people who know you're doing a good job as well. So I can totally understand that your may seem a little puzzled by by question. Because it's, it's, it must be so natural to you that you just have people around you who are in the you know, in the fields you want you're working in, and you talk to people, and that's how you solve these, you know, the next steps, say, I'm not going to call them problems, because I got the sense that you don't have problems. They are even challenges. They're just things that show up every day, you show up every day and you persevere.

Heidi Bauer:

There's definite, there's always challenges, challenges, you have to just keep pushing forward. But yeah, to your point about people, you know, and I don't differentiate the business and personally, you know, everybody that I've worked with, they just become, they become my friends. And so, and that's, that is why I feel so lucky that it's you know, it's not just about, it's not just about work, you know, everybody that I sort of connect with sort of on a professional level level, you know, it goes so far beyond that, and, and, you know, the great thing also about working with really smart people is that I get to learn a lot. So I also feel very lucky in that regard.

Andy:

And so, Otoz, how did you How then did that start out for you? How When did you get involved in that idea? And in the Otoz project,

Heidi Bauer:

that was also a couple of years ago now. And yeah, it was with you know, Naeem, Murad, Faraaz Wonderful, wonderful. You know, again, partners and part of you working with,

Andy:

yeah, already part of your world. Yeah. Yeah. And we know you mentioned already do you want to say a little bit more about the success that you You've had recently with rolling out the programme?

Heidi Bauer:

Yeah, Yeah, I touched on it. I touched on it already. But we're right now we're rolling out a digital retailing tool across the US. So again, it's a fully digital process, but this will be rolled out by dealerships for tier one OEM. So we're really excited to be able to, you know, again, provide consumers with that digital experience, THROUGH THROUGH THROUGH that network of car dealerships. Because I think at the end of the day, that's also what, you know, it's what consumers want. And the pandemic especially has really just, you know, sort of accelerated that trend. And I think it's also sort of made the dealer community and the OEMs, more aware of the fact the fact that, you know, consumers are willing to buy big ticket items such as cars online, and that digital solutions, you know, are really a necessity nowadays.

Andy:

I don't know if we said it. But that's in the US, isn't it that SATs in the US? Yeah, that project is in the US? What was important to be successful in securing that opportunity with that tier one, OEM and successfully rolling out that platform?

Heidi Bauer:

Well, I mean, I think in terms of the platform, you know, there's always things that can still be improved, you know, every single day, I look at our products, and I think about how we can continue to, you know, improve the experience for customers. So it's everything is a process, it's a journey, it's never really finished, essentially,

Andy:

I imagine you are competing against some other providers, potential providers to win that. Do you know what it was about the Otoz proposition that helped you to secure it?

Heidi Bauer:

I do think it's our tech and our automotive capabilities. At the end of the day, you know, we have that essentially, we were startup. But you know, we still have that strong automotive background through netsol as well supporting us. So I think that that's a clear differentiator for Otoz as well,

Andy:

I'm in terms of the way that the retailers are going to use it. So the customer is the OEM, who's deciding, okay, this is the platform we want to use in our network in our dealer organisation. What How will the dealers be using it? Will they be doing new cars used cars? Both? what's the what's the product?

Heidi Bauer:

Yeah, we're going to be rolling that out. So right now, it's new cars only, but we're going to be rolling it out to use cars. And, you know, essentially, it always is, you know, it's all about putting the customer first because the customer at the end of the day decides how successful a product is. Many, you know, there's so many tools out there that that you know, can help you with testing and analysing how customers use the product, how well it resonates. And you know, of course, that's what we're going to continue to keep doing,

Andy:

and what sort of finance products will they be using.

Heidi Bauer:

So right now we're offering just, you know, a regular loan and leases as well.

Andy:

So it's very much about the experience, the innovation, if you like is in the the customer interface, the way the customer interacts the making the process more streamlined and easier. Giving the dealers a tool they don't already have, dare I say, accelerating development that the OEM may find difficult to do internally, and helping them leapfrog?

Heidi Bauer:

Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, I think, you know, even again, in that regard, it is all about finding the right partners. And I mean, OEMs have built such incredible product, right. But their focus has always been very much on the hardware. It's never been on the software, it's never been on the customer experience. And that's why partnering with companies like autos, can really provide a competitive advantage to OEMs and to car dealerships as well.

Andy:

And so when does that go live?

Heidi Bauer:

We are live in California, and we're going to be rolling out across the other states now.

Andy:

Okay, unless you've been very presumed very deliberately not mentioning what the brand is. Yeah. Okay. I realised that was. Yeah. Okay. Because it's a great brand. Yeah, I'm sure in time in time that will be become apparent. Is there anything else you want to say about your learnings from from fromcash2car or from Otoz, before we move on?

Heidi Bauer:

I mean, I think we covered a lot of it. I think we covered a lot of it, you know, at the end of the day, it is you know, even as I was saying, you know, OEMs, who they choose to partner with everything is about the people. I think that's really always the heart of it, whether it's your whether it's your partners, in terms of organisations, whether it's your employees, or whether it's your customers, you know, any businesses is is about the people at the heart of it.

Andy:

That's music to my ears, you know, and so say a little bit about their culture. What are your thoughts on creating a culture in let's take autos, for example, as the most recent business that you're heavily involved Or I know there's more to come as well, which we'll talk about. And what are your thoughts on developing a culture that allows people to perform at a high level?

Heidi Bauer:

Yeah, I think it's always, it's important for everybody to always really understand what our strengths are. And as a leader to also understand, you know, what your employees strengths are, because what happens really often is that people, you know, will try to overcompensate for their weaknesses, rather than really focusing in on and developing their strengths. So, as a leader, that's always what I try to do is I try to look at people and understand, you know, what do they excel at? What do they love to do? And how can we nurture those skills and help them grow and develop in that area? And that's what I also tried to do for myself as well.

Andy:

That sounds I'm sorry, I'm just absolutely on board with you. There you are, I believe everything you have said, so important to focus on the strengths and build a team that can complement each other. And so your strengths, we know there's handwriting and math and perseverance. It's like, what do you like doing? Hi, if you say, you know, let people do the stuff they really enjoy doing. And they excel at what will we see you doing?

Heidi Bauer:

You know, aside from being on this podcast with you, guys, it goes without saying, I love looking at products. So I love looking at products, I love thinking about and figuring out how we can improve products and develop products for consumers. That's that's really the the key for me at the end of the day is, is looking at that. But I love doing a lot of different things. But that's that's definitely one of them.

Andy:

Yeah, though, it's very important in the senior roles that you're in, you obviously need to be generally capable across across a broad spectrum. But no, thanks for sharing that. So what came after or comes after Otto's,

Heidi Bauer:

I am now heading up customer experience at next car. And next car is a used vehicle subscription platform. So essentially, we enable customers to select a vehicle via an app, they can complete the entire transaction online, and then they use that car for as long as they want, or they can return it or upgrade or downgrade. So essentially, we are providing consumers with simple flexible access to mobility again, which is completely debt free.

Andy:

And say a little bit about where NextCar originates from,

Heidi Bauer:

you know, NextCar is a essentially a continuation of Fair, which was launched by, you know, Scott Painter and Georg Bauer. And, you know, that's sort of the the journey that we're continuing here because we are, you know, full believers that, you know, consumers shouldn't have to hold on to, you know, a depreciating asset and have a loan on that. consumers should be flexible, and there should be a different way to own cars that's really customer centric at the end of the day.

Andy:

And what learnings Have there been from Fair that are now being taken advantage of in NextCar?

Heidi Bauer:

Um, you know, I mean, I think from an operational perspective, there's certainly a lot of learnings in terms of how you can run a subscription business, how you can manage the different levers, I think, because subscriptions, you know, it's completely new category. So it hasn't really, you know, those levers haven't been used yet to really improve the product from a customer experience perspective, and also in terms of the bottom line. So, you know, using insurance using add on products, you know, improving those types of products. But then also, of course, the operations as well.

Andy:

Yeah, you said earlier in the conversation Heidi, how much opportunity there is for digitalization and in the automotive vertical on and as you said, bringing products and just simplifying the whole experience. And so are there significant differences between Fair and NextCar?

Heidi Bauer:

Certainly, in terms of, you know, how the operations are going to be managed and the back end and the back end, but from in terms of the customer experience, it's it's, you know, there's there's going to be some exciting things happen. As well,

Andy:

there's so so there's very strong, George and Scott have very strong, clear vision of how the customer experience should be and very focused on, on removing the debt element and making it I don't know, there's a real strong sense, I guess my experiences more with is fair, obviously, because I was a bit closer to that business. And fair was a good name for it. Because there was a really strong sense of the purpose of that business, it was about making things fairer. And having, you know, young people with low scrape with low credit scores, you don't stop them being penalised with high interest rates and getting themselves into debt on cars. So that continues, but with some changes in the operational business model, if you like that will support support that vision.

Heidi Bauer:

Yeah, I mean, absolutely, there's, I mean, the, our fundamental belief is still that, you know, consumers should be able to access mobility in a debt free way, you know, using sort of the monthly payment as the guide, because what also happens in the automotive industry is that consumers underestimate the total cost of ownership. So you know, consumers to sort of look at the monthly payment of a lease or have a loan, and then to decrease that monthly payment, what ends up happening is that the loan term just gets extended. But that's not, that's not a good model for the consumer to have a six seven year loan on a depreciating asset, you know, that's not, that's not a model that really helps the consumer in any shape or form. So I think the fundamental belief is there is that consumers should have access to mobility in a way that's, you know, provides them that overview of the total cost of ownership. So that's why we include maintenance, warranty, insurance, all of that, so that the consumer gets a holistic overview of their total mobility expenditures on a monthly basis. I think that's the key of it, and that that's at the heart of it. But then, of course, the other part of it is, you know, making that experience completely seamless. Because as we know, you know, like I said earlier, you know, buying a car can be a very daunting experience, but also owning and maintaining a car is also, you know, has its complexities as well, and then selling a car. So, you know, we simplify all of that for the consumer. And that's really, really what what's at the heart of the company,

Andy:

I think I'd go so far as to say Heidi, Heidi, that not only do we underestimate the cost of running cars, we actively lie to ourselves about it. We pull scams to, to help make it look less so that we can get into the car that we want. So what you're doing is bringing transparency, there's a lot more transparency coming into the industry, availability of data and vehicle price transparency across across markets, and you're bringing all that together in a single monthly payment. So people know, there's the potential, I guess, challenge with that is it makes it harder for us to trick ourselves into getting a car where we've been buying cars, or we've been choosing cars, because we haven't been comparing apples with apples, if you like, we haven't been totally honest with ourselves about how much it's going to cost us. And if you make it very transparent, that that does have an impact on the price. You know, people are seeing the actual price, but subscription is a it's a new product category. It's very, very much talked about at the moment, and we've seen we've seen OEMs come and go with putting their toe in the water with subscription. And obviously you're committed to it. Next car is committed to it as a as a product and and fair is and so what do you think is the key to unlocking subscription as a product category and really getting it to fly?

Heidi Bauer:

I mean, I think right now it is still about you know, essentially, you know, creating awareness around the product because you know, like you said it's it's a new segment and of course we you know talk about it a lot because we're in the automotive industry. But you know, a lot of consumers haven't heard about car subscriptions or about the benefits yet yet. So I think that's that's sort of the next step. I think what we've what we you know, know at this point is Certainly that it's a product that consumers love. Because it does completely change the dynamic for them of, you know, sort of the traditional car buying process versus, you know, hey, I can do everything via an app, you know, which just makes it so much simpler. And it comes at an all in price, I know exactly how much I'm going to spend. And, you know, if my life changes, I can upgrade, I can downgrade, I'm not locked into anything. And I think that's something that really resonates with, you know, today's modern consumers.

Andy:

And if you can get the pricing right, so I'm imagining next car will be unlike the the OEMs. And the models that we just mentioned, where they tend to be very focused on new car sales, understandably. And the products that they produce, therefore, tend to be quite expensive. It's very much a premium product for people who are really happy to pay, pay more for the flexibility of knowing they can change their car. But that is for a smaller audience. So NextCar, is there going to be used car? subscription?

Heidi Bauer:

Absolutely. So NextCar is going to be used car subscriptions. And, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that, you know, this is the type of business model. And, you know, generally, like we were talking about earlier, in order for a new business to be successful, you know, it takes persistence, it takes perseverance. So, you know, when OEMs sort of dip their toes in and out, you know, that doesn't say anything to me about the viability of the business model as such, because to really build a new segment, to build a new company to build a new approach, you know, you have to go all in. And then, you know, I believe it will be successful, especially if you keep, you know, adapting and looking at consumer needs and looking at what what you know, the consumer wants are so that you can really hone in on that, and provide an amazing experience.

Andy:

It sounds like it's more about identifying, how is this going to work best for whom is this going to work best with what vehicles at what price? Rather than thinking, Okay, I want to sell new cars. And I'm now going to use this new tool called subscription. And that's what I'm hearing? And how is youre nodding? Sorry, my listeners can't see that so perhaps I ought to give you a chance to see whether you agree or disagree with me, Heidi, but would you agree with that?

Heidi Bauer:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think this industry is fundamentally changing right now. And I think that there's so many core business models such as subscriptions, but also adjacent business models, such as, you know, insurance, that can really transform the customer experience. So I'm, I'm so excited to be an automotive right now. And to see what's going to happen over the next few years,

Andy:

Im conscious, I'm talking more than I usually do on these podcasts. And I think it's because I share your excitement for that. And also the awareness that there are, there's certain things coming together at the same time. So the fact that we're becoming increasingly dependent on using our phones or smartphones, to transact pretty much everything that we can in life, and it's their frustration if I have to come upstairs to my office to go on my desktop, that's a frustration already. So everyone wants to do everything on their phone. What do you think about the, I think another element that's that's, you know, also helping this transition is the the transparency the data that's available and there and machine learning, and the ability to to price? The cars because that's what I think when you start talking to people in our industry, particularly in the traditional mature automotive finance captives, and you talk about Okay, well we're going to offer this person a contract but there's no fixed end date. It's really that they struggle with how are we going to their surname? My first when I started think about a few years ago was my first thoughts are Why would you price it if you don't know when they're giving him back? I always used to start with the end date and the acquisition price and then I work out what the costs gonna be. So how are how is the what's happening at the moment supporting you to be able to price these vehicles

Heidi Bauer:

So I think machine learning is definitely is definitely key. And in order for those algorithms to really have an impact, you know, you need a certain volume of data. So again, it goes back to sort of the point that we were talking about earlier that just dipping your toes in, isn't really going to have, you know, the right impact, in order for for, you know, machine learning for those algorithms to really, to really be able to sort of unlock supply and demand, you know, take into account, you know, things like depreciation, so that you price them right, in terms of the vehicle, but also in terms of, you know, the sort of the consumer price sensitivity is, you do need quite a bit of data. And the customers that the sorry, the companies that really start by doing that, they're going to have a huge competitive advantage. Because, you know, the sooner that they start using that data analysing that data, the further ahead, they'll be.

Andy:

So we've got a number of things converging to make this work now, what about availability of inventory? And stock? Is that an important topic? Is that is that something that's happening with you so many vehicles owned by manufacturers now through their, through their captives? So many cars sitting on balance sheets of OEMs? And captives, does that help or hinder this transition?

Heidi Bauer:

Well, I mean, I think, you know, 2020 2021 have absolutely been, you know, fascinating years in terms of use car prices. So certainly, these cycles are going to have an impact. I think, again, it is all about, you know, finding the right partners, because, you know, the entire ecosystem, the entire automotive ecosystem can benefit when we provide consumers with the product that is right for them. So, you know, this is certainly something that, you know, in our ecosystem, we certainly need to work with dealers, and OEMs. And with all of these different partners. So finding these solutions together, is is definitely the approach that will lead to long term success.

Andy:

And in the NextCar model, Heidi, who owns the vehicle?

Heidi Bauer:

We own the vehicle? Absolutely.

Andy:

And do you think over time, that I have a very strong view on this. And so I don't want to lead you as it were. But do you think over time that cars will be owned more by companies or by individuals?

Heidi Bauer:

Well, of course, if we follow the subscription model, they'll be owned by companies, which, you know, just makes total sense, you know, why should consumers have that on a depreciating asset? And why should that be extended, extended to 678 year long loan terms, Americans right now hold a record $1.3 trillion dollars in debt related to their vehicles. And I mean, they're locked into those loan terms. That's not an optimal model for the consumer by any means. So I think we're going to see a fundamental shift in that regard.

Andy:

So now, I really am this is I'm just deliberately asking you, I'm deliberately asking you these questions. How important do you think captive finance companies are going to be going forward, I think it'd be more important or less important if, if more vehicles are going to be owned by companies rather than individuals.

Heidi Bauer:

I think that, you know, in a way, what we were saying earlier is that, you know, no person can do something by themselves, and that you need, you need the right partners. The same goes for any organisation, as a company, you can't do it all and you want to work with the right companies that really compliment you. So that you can then, you know, create a product that is more seamless, more efficient, and just more optimised for the consumer. So I don't think that, you know, there's obviously, you know, a lot of talk in the industry about certain partners in the ecosystem and what their role will be. I do think that there's space for many different partners. And I think that if we collaborate and look at what the future will be, you know, we'll all be more successful for it.

Andy:

Thank you. And so when does NextCar go live?

Heidi Bauer:

We're going live with a beta version of the product this fall and then we are going to launch early next year,

Andy:

right, will you launch in California is that?

Heidi Bauer:

Yes, we're gonna start in California? Absolutely.

Andy:

That's safe to say, Yeah. Is there anything else you'd like to say about NextCar, while we're on that topic? How long have you been involved in that business, Heidi

Heidi Bauer:

for a couple of months now,

Andy:

right. And it's with the product, looking at the product, which you said is something you love doing?

Heidi Bauer:

Yeah. So I look at every customer touch point, and I just make sure that it's a great experience for the consumer. You know, because in the way I see it, you know, why shouldn't it be? every customer touchpoint should be a delight, it should be seamless, it should be simple. It should be integrated. You know, having a car should be it should be easy, and it shouldn't feel daunting for consumers. So that's, that's what I look at. I look at the complete journey online and offline.

Andy:

So yeah, I know that Fair, was very involved with Uber, a couple of years ago, and what's the thoughts for NextCar, the thoughts around whether that's an opportunity?

Heidi Bauer:

That's not going to be the route that we will take? So

Andy:

So more of a retail? Yeah, more of a retail? consumer, a consumer product?

Heidi Bauer:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

Andy:

Does that bring us up to present day?

Heidi Bauer:

That does that brings us up to present day here in Santa Monica, California. Yeah, it's been quite the journey. So in terms of my career, you know, it was Dubai, Berlin, Otoz, our developers were in Pakistan. So I got to spend quite a bit of time in Lahore as well. And then now now here in Santa Monica.

Andy:

And system wise, will you be developing your own systems? In NextCar? Or will you be leveraging partnerships? to do that?

Heidi Bauer:

By systems? Do you mean the technology?

Andy:

Yeah, technology?

Heidi Bauer:

Yeah, we develop all of that in house. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy:

So you've picked up plenty of experience of that as well over the years? And how long wit out saying, I'm not fishing or your age. But how many yea s are we talking about of your areer so far? As you're, ou're you're in my third ye r in my rising star category we have we say this is a this h s conversations with the seni r leaders and rising, rising s ars. And I think you still go a long way to go in your tra ectory. So how many years ha e we have we are we talking bout that we've covered? from how many years? around? 2? Yeah. Okay. So some of my gu sts, I've got 40 years in the i dustry. So he, there's quite a ot of stuff to go. Yeah, so it's not the rear view very yet For me, really. It's this, it s it's definitely in the risi g star category. It's been rea ly wonderful to have this opp rtunity to sit down and talk thr ugh your journey so far. And thank you very much for sharing ith us what you've been doing. I there anything else you'd li e to say before we before w draw to a close?

Heidi Bauer:

Yeah, I mean, I think one other topic that's obviously very near and dear to my heart is women in automotive. I would say that's definitely, you know, something that really, really drives me in this space, is because women are so underrepresented in the automotive and products really have not been customised to meet women's needs by any means. So like I said earlier, you know, three out of four women don't go to a car dealership alone, but actually 80% of all 80% of all car purchases are influenced by women. And if we look at sort of just the industry as a whole, it has not done women justice by any means and we are still so underrepresented. So you know, we can sort of look at we can look at the the sexism across the industry and how that has actually perpetuated the power imbalance in our society. But what we can also look at is we can look at something very, very fundamental, such as safety. And this is something that I really always talk about because I just think we need to be much more aware of this in the automotive industry and, and most people I talk to, in fact, only one person that I've ever spoken to has known this, but women are actually 17% more likely to die in car accidents than Men and 47% more likely to be injured in car accidents than men. And that's, that's because the first female crash test dummy was only developed in 2012. So up until then there were only male crash test dummies. And even now that, you know, quote, unquote, female crash test dummy, is actually still based on the male physiology, it's actually just a smaller version of a man, so actually really doesn't take into account, you know, women's requirements, women's bodies, how women sit at all. And most of the time that crash test dummy is actually tested in the passenger seat. So you know, and that's why I always have to, I always have to bring this up, because I think we need more awareness about this. Because we all know, the sort of the negative, you know, sort of how the car has influenced gender stereotypes. And you know, some of them are just sexist, like a sexist advertisement. But they really go much, much further than that, and impact women's safety. And that's something that's very important to me. And that's certainly also something that that really, that really drives me in this space. Because we need more women in leadership, we need more women in leadership, we need more diversity in the automotive industry. So that when we look at products, and when we design products, they meet the needs of all people, and not just not just you know, 50% of the population, essentially,

Andy:

I'm glad you've shared that, Heidi, and that we've had the opportunity to to include that in our conversation. And it's so important to get those messages out where they're just that you said only one person you've spoken to knew those stats. So thank you for that. And I know from looking at my own guestlist How, how many white men I have in my guest list. And I am very keen to reflect well, I guess that reflects the industry. I was having this conversation with my daughter yesterday and saying, okay, you know, she was excited that I was going to be talking to you today. And we were saying, you know, it sort of does reflect that you look at our guest list, it does reflect the industry? And it will, we'll do, we'll do what we can to change that in terms of our representation, but it's just so obvious that it's such a male dominated industry, but we've had the women who have been our guests of mine have really loved the industry and seem to have thrived in it and navigated their way through. So how have you you're you're another of them? How have you gone about it? How have you managed to succeed in this male dominated world?

Heidi Bauer:

Well, I think that's part of what drives me to be in this industry is that, you know, I see the need for for change. And you know, and I see the impact that that we can have, if if we, if we do have more diversity in this space, because I mean, like I said, it goes beyond just sort of, you know, it goes beyond just just sexism, mobility is about, you know, it's about how we move through the world, it is about so much more than just cars, it's about how safely and how efficiently we get from point A to point B. And, you know, it means it means so much to people in terms of how they get to their job, how they managed to really manage every aspect of their lives, having access to mobility impacts that and that's why, you know, what we do is, is so, so important, but again, you know, safety is a fundamental piece of that. And that sort of freedom, which the car represents is something that women have been denied that in a way also because of the stereotypes around women being poor drivers. So you know, when in fact, women cause less accidents and less fatal accidents than men. So, you know, and that's why I think it's it's so important that we have more diverse representation in this industry. I mean, to date, I have only ever seen one advertisement, where there was a man in the passenger seat and a woman in the driver's seat. There's advertisements where there's women in driver's seat, but I've only ever seen one where there was and it was a short clip where there was, you know, where the man was in the passenger seat and the woman was in the driver's seat, and it just, it shows you a lot about where we are as a society. But it also shows you the impact that we can still have, especially because cars are such a big, big part of our lives,

Andy:

you're triggering lots of thoughts. This one is, if you ever see me out with my wife She'll be driving. I hardly ever get to drive because she feels carsick if thats her story anyway that she feels carsick. So I'm always chauffeured around by Julia

Heidi Bauer:

But I think that's the reality for a lot of couples. But then, you know, for the automotive industry to

Andy:

not in the marketing

Heidi Bauer:

Yeah, exactly, to really show that that's the, you know, stuff that hasn't been taken.

Andy:

And the other thought, you've reminded me, I've just finished reading a book called Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed, which is all about diversity. And he tells a story, I'm pretty sure it's from this book, where he talks about, I think it's in Canada, where obviously have heavy snow falls in the winter. And the priority used to be to get the gritting lorries out to grip the roads, so that they'll be safe for people to get to work. But they then discovered that it's the guys who are driving to work. And it's the mums who are taking the kids to school who are walking on the pavements that haven't yet been greeted that having the accent. So there's just so many instances where this has just not been on the radar, like your crash test dummy example where this is, I think it's really, it seems to be happening more, I'm more aware of it. Now, fortunately, my daughter does a great job of educating me and trying to bring me up to speed, but it does seem that there's more awareness coming and every opportunity to shine a light on it is welcome.

Heidi Bauer:

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's, that's exactly right. You know, it is all legit. It's all about just creating more awareness. You know, we can't change things overnight. But if we all become a little bit more aware of these things, then then it does have, you know, a huge, huge impact.

Andy:

And there's just so much stuff that we're not even aware that we're not aware of as men. But but learning learning every day, and I'm happy to be doing so. So

Heidi Bauer:

yeah, and that's why, you know, we need more diversity in all regards, because we all have our, our filters our lenses with which through we look through at the world. And the more perspectives we get, especially, you know, whether it's in product development, for for safety, but also in app product development, and artificial intelligence as well. You know, we need diverse data sets in order to be able to make sure that those algorithms really have the intended impact. So all of those things are so so important so that we can really continue to optimise products for all people.

Andy:

Yeah, totally agree. So I'm glad I asked you that question. If there was anything else you wanted to cover up? Is there anything else?

Heidi Bauer:

Yeah, I mean, that's definitely a topic I'm very, very passionate about. Also, because I think it's such a missed opportunity, I guess, for companies, because I always think if there were one car company that you know, had created a female crash test dummies in the, you know, in the 80s 90s, you know, and had really now optimised safety for women as well. Imagine the competitive advantage that company would have. So you know, when we don't look at things holistically, we really miss out on major, major opportunities. And that's why, you know, diverse companies are more successful, you know, and that's why I'm so excited about everything that that we're going to be doing in the future, just to really optimise products for everyone.

Andy:

That sounds marvellous, and makes me think about the culture at NextCar. So what's the culture like at NextCar?

Heidi Bauer:

It's I mean, as always, like I said, I have the, you know, I'm just always lucky and blessed to be surrounded by amazing people. So yeah, it's certainly a very diverse group. We have people from a lot of different backgrounds and nationalities. And yes, we still need a few more women, though. So working on that.

Andy:

It's good, good. Good. So if people want to contact you, Heidi, how would you like them to do that?

Heidi Bauer:

LinkedIn is probably the easiest. I always love hearing from people. So feel free to reach out anytime.

Andy:

And if people want to look at NextCar, what's the URL for NextCar?

Heidi Bauer:

They can go to nxcr.com

Andy:

and follow follow developments there.

Heidi Bauer:

Yes. lots happening.

Andy:

Yeah, I'm sure. Thank you. Again, thank you so much for for sharing your story and letting us know your journey. And it's been great to have you as a guest

Heidi Bauer:

Thank you

Andy:

and I look forward to speaking to you again soon. So

Heidi Bauer:

thank you so much, Andy. It was such a pleasure. You're most welcome. You've been listening to Career-view Mirror with me. Andy Follows Heidi's made her way in the industry and she's focused on customer experience and technology to carve a niche. In the days following our conversation I reflected on how Heidi embodies the mindset and perseverance required to succeed in a startup environment. She doesn't see challenges as obstacles they are to be expected and a necessary part of the process almost fueling her progress, and at the centre continually has been the desire to streamline and improve the customer experience. And that seemed to have been providing a sense of purpose, and a guiding compass for Heidi as she's navigated her career journey so far. I hope you enjoyed Heidi's story and found some helpful points to reflect on for your own journey, or for the journeys of people you lead parent or mentor. I'm genuinely interested in what resonated with you so please leave a review on Apple podcasts or you can find the episode on our Instagram @careerviewmirror and comment there. Thank you to all of you for sharing your feedback. Thanks also to Hannah, our producer. To be among the first to know about upcoming guests. Follow us on Instagram@careerviewmirror. If you know people who would benefit from hearing these stories, please show them how to find us. Thanks for listening.