CAREER-VIEW MIRROR - biographies of colleagues in the automotive and mobility industries.

Ian Smith

Andy Follows Episode 35

Ian recently left the BMW Group after 22 years during which he worked in five international markets including the headquarters in Munich. His most recent role was as CEO of BMW Group Financial Services USA and Americas, a role which he held for almost 5 years. 

Ian was born in the UK and he spent the first 8 years of his career there in a variety of Sales and Business Development Functions. 

In 1996, he moved to Canada and took a role as Dealer Development Manager with GE Capital Autolease. 

His career with BMW started in 1999 when he joined BMW Group Financial Services Canada as a Director / National Sales and Marketing Manager. From there he went to be President of BMW Financial Services Brazil and then to be VP of Sales and Marketing at BMW Group Financial Services North America before returning to BMW Group Financial Services Canada in the role of President. 

He spent four years as Chief Executive Officer of BMW Financial Services (GB) Ltd in the UK before moving to Munich to become Vice President Business Development, Marketing, Compliance and Strategy (Financial Services). 

Ian says "The role of a leader is not only to lead but also to listen and be able to be led, keeping the ego in the pocket and allowing others to shine, engage and grow." 

I personally know many people who were very happy to be led by Ian and were very sorry to see him leave BMW Group. It was a privilege and a pleasure to have this opportunity to talk with him about his career journey and I am delighted to be able to share his experiences with you now. I look forward to hearing what resonates with you. 

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Episode recorded on 28 September 2021 

Ian Smith:

We arrived with five suitcases, the hotel booked for a week, no family, no friends, no contacts. And we basically said, Okay, here's our journey. Here's where my interview is tomorrow. This is where we're staying tonight. Here we go.

Andy:

Welcome to Career-view Mirror, the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers so far, sharing insights to help you with your own. I'm your host, Andy Follows Ian Smith listeners. Ian recently left the BMW group after 22 years, during which he worked in five international markets, including the headquarters in Munich. His most recent role was as a CEO of BMW group financial services USA and America's a role which he held for almost five years. Ian was born in the UK, and he spent the first eight years of his career there in a variety of sales and business development functions. In 1996, he moved to Canada and took a role as dealer Development Manager with GE Capital auto lease. His career with BMW started in 1999, when he joined BMW group financial services Canada as a director, and National Sales and Marketing Manager. From there he went to be president of BMW group financial services Brazil, and then to be VP of Sales and Marketing at BMW group financial services North America before returning to BMW group financial services Canada in the role of president. He spent four years as Chief Executive Officer of BMW Financial Services GB in the UK, before moving to Munich to become vice president business development, marketing compliance and strategy, financial services. It says the role of leader is not only to lead but also to listen and be able to be led keeping the ego in the pocket and allowing others to shine, engage and grow. I personally know many people who are very happy to be led by him, and we're very sorry to see him leave BMW group. It was a privilege and a pleasure to have this opportunity to talk with him about his career journey. And I'm delighted to be able to share his experience with you now, I look forward to hearing what resonates with you.

Aquilae Academy:

This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by the Aquilae Academy. at the academy we turn Individual Development into a team sport, we bring together small groups of leaders from non competing organisations to form their very own Academy team. We build strong connection between team members and create a great environment for sharing and learning. We introduce the team to content that can help them to tackle their current challenges. And we hold them accountable to take the actions that they decide are their priorities. We say we hold our team members feet to the fire of their best intentions. We do this internationally with teams across the world. If you'd like to learn more about the Academy, go to www.aquilae.co.uk.

Andy:

Hello Ian and welcome. And where are you coming to us from today?

Ian Smith:

Well, great to see you, Andy. I'm actually calling from Ontario, Canada, just outside of Toronto, on a beautiful fall day and enjoying it very, very much.

Andy:

Well, thank you very much for joining me today. And I can see it's beautiful. Your house has got a lot of light flooding in. And you're the first guest we've had from Canada, we've had a Canadian guest but who was in the UK before but we haven't had someone sitting in Canada. So it's exciting for me, and it's exciting for me for other reasons, because I've known for quite a while and I have a lot of respect for you. And I know a lot of people who've worked very closely with you who respect you a lot. So I'm looking forward to going through this conversation with you. So you're in Ontario. Now. Where did your journey start there? Where were you born? And where did you grow up.

Ian Smith:

Andy I was born in the northwest of England between Manchester and Liverpool in a place called Warrington, I grew up I was born there and then moved with my family, my parents, of course to a place called Wigan and made very famous for the George Orwell book On the Road to Wigan Pier written in the turn of the last century. And very interesting time there and I lived there until my mid 20s. At which point then I moved to Canada with my wife emigrated to Canada with my wife, in fact, there's a great story there.

Andy:

We'll come we'll come to that. And so I'm excited because I'm also from the northwest I was born in Boden, which isn't too far from Warrington and I used to go go - karting in Ashton-in-Makerfield near Wigan. And we had a guest recently who was talking about weekend and Wigan pier and George Orwell. So we've got a bit of a thread a little a link there. So tell me about growing up then. Did you have siblings, and where were you in the pecking order.

Ian Smith:

So I was the third of four children, I have an older brother, an older sister, and a younger sister. And there's roughly five years apart from each of the other siblings. So I grew up in a quite a full household and took very, very different pathways than my other family members, all my other family still live in the northwest of England, and enjoy that very much. That was not for me, though, I wanted to do more and see more and experience more. And so my journey took me on a very different pathway. My parents, my father, started his career as a Turner. And for those who don't know what Turner is that's somebody who works on lathe machines. And of course, when my father was much younger, he started work age of 14 or 15. By the time of 19, he was already their kind of a shop foreman as it were. But then some one day somebody came knocking on the door selling life insurance. And my father had a career change and moved into the life insurance business became very successful in that field. And quite frankly, a lot of what I do and what I'm inspired by, comes from my father, and I'm very grateful for him for teaching me and leading me that way. My father has since passed away, but I hold very dear memories of my childhood as a consequence. And during my childhood, I was interested in like, lots of other boys, Lego and the space and the future. My mother always used to say, I was born too soon, my head was too far in the future. And, you know, because I would see something on TV, I used to watch Thunderbirds as a child. And I would then go to my Lego box, and I'll build Thunderbird two or whatever it was, whatever I could visualise. I could build it. And that's a skill that has continued with me even till today. Not necessarily Lego, but now I build it out of other things. other materials so

Andy:

I'm really interested in that the change for your father from from being a turner lathe operator to a life insurance salesperson, that's you know, quite a shift, isn't it? And what do you think it was made him successful in that? what, what traits?

Ian Smith:

My father was an incredibly, I would say driven, but in a very encouraging way, he knew that he wanted a better life for his family. And growing up in the post war era in the UK, in the area that they were living, it was hard. You know, my parents first house was a what was called a one up one down with a small outhouse in the yard at the back. Those kinds of houses are, you don't see them of course today, but, you know, with a tin door, and so I mean, very, very different way of living, and my father, always, he came from a large family of nine siblings. And he always had this dream of what his family life would look like. And he knew that he could not achieve it, doing what he was doing. And the message he always said to me was, you'll never make a lot of money if you get your hands dirty. I think that's different today. But at the time, that was certainly probably true. Today I think there's a lot of great professions that are highly technically minded, that where you do need to get your sleeves rolled up, and you do have to jump in and getting dirty as part of the job. And that's great. But that was the message that he gave to me growing up as a child and, and that resonated with me. So when I when I came to leaving school and going through my education, I really didn't know what I wanted to do. All I knew I wanted to do was I wanted to lead. But I can come back to that in a few more moments.

Andy:

Yeah, we will. I don't want to dwell too long on your father, because it's not his episode, but I am, I would like to have been there when he was thinking of making that step into into the life insurance role and the conversations he might have had with family and friends about and I'm delighted that that went so well. And I'm also curious that you had this sense of adventure. And I wanted to get out and how, you know, we, even though we grew up in the same family, individual family members can have completely different aspirations and things they want to do. So as a student, Ian when you were going to school, what were you like, what were the teachers? How would the teachers have described you?

Ian Smith:

I was very creative. I was the kid that was always asked to do, you know, paint all the art props and do all the decorative type stuff because I had a gift for art and creativity. So the art teacher and the music teacher always tried to kind of wrangle me into those types of activities, which, which I thoroughly enjoyed. I've always been somebody who has been able to visualise something and create it with my own hands. And therefore that was how I was I was a very confident individual, quite outspoken, but not too verbose or too arrogant. In that context. I was the kind of kid that everybody knew and got along with everybody, I didn't really have enemies or, thankfully, I was not the person that people would pick on or or challenge, I was just somebody who just mingled and mixed with everyone. And that, again, has served me very well in terms of building relationships with others and things like that.

Andy:

What subjects Did you lean towards?

Ian Smith:

I liked geography. I liked some of the sciences. But I was not particularly good at the sciences, I was more interested in kind of seeing how different chemicals would react and not really know the consequences, get in trouble But, again, I was, you know, when it came to some of the what was what was then called craft design and technologies that was working with metals, woods, paints, clays, the creative stuff, I was good at that math was always something that was, I could take it or leave it, but but my father was very good at math. So he always instilled in me this kind of idea that math is really important. So I really pushed on the math side, I was particularly poor of English, I could express myself very well. But my, my grammar was awful. And I only learned grammar, literally, after I left my education, or my, my high school education, as I learned how to write properly, and how to express oneself properly.

Andy:

And when he came to leave high school, how clear an idea Did you have then of what direction you wanted to go?

Ian Smith:

It's funny because my parents went when I was leaving high school, my parents had no clue what I was going to do. They were apparently, as I learned later, they were very, very concerned. But one day, I came home from school, and I spoke to the career advice in the school, and they suggested something, again, using my hands using my creative skills. But that, quite frankly, I could do that. And that was not a problem for me, I wanted to do something where I was going to change and have a meaningful impact. So I decided, you know what, I'm going to go to business school. So I decided to study business and finance in college. Because what I wanted to do, was I wanted to lead as I mentioned earlier, and for whatever reason I wanted, and that that's what my father did, my father went from being this trade specialist to being a salesperson, and ultimately leading an organisation. And that I think, just stayed with me. And I felt that that was what I wanted to do. And even in college, my aspiration was I wanted to be the CEO of a company. I didn't necessarily care what company it was, I just wanted the opportunity to impact people's lives in a positive way in a meaningful way, and do something where impact could be driven, where I could actually share ideas, bring people together, and so on. That journey certainly played itself out.

Andy:

Yeah, and so a lot of young people might want to be a CEO or boss of an organisation, you wanted to do it for very positive, wholesome reasons for want of a better way to have an impact to lead people for good It sounds like and was that coming from your father then was that the style of leadership that he would have been espousing in his organisation,

Ian Smith:

my father was was was tough, but fair. My father was somebody who I met a lot of his colleagues over the years, oftentimes his colleagues would come to our home, and we'd meet there either in social occasions or at the home for business purposes. So I'd actually interact with a lot of these people. And I just, I observed how my father did things and how he interacted with people and how those personal relationships although they were on a friendship basis, there was also a different relationship I observed in parallel. And of course, you know, I also had this aspiration that I wanted to financially do very well for myself and provide for my family, whatever that would like in the future. And I felt that that was the best way in which to pursue that that dream and that aspiration. So that's how that came along. And little did I know that when setting that as a goal or an idea how that would sit in the back of my mind for a number of years and actually guide me subconsciously or subliminally, into the various roles and opportunities that I came across and then explored and, and undertook

Unknown:

I'm curious. Yes, yes, sorry to interrupt. But isn't it fascinating that the the impact that that can have the impact that having such an aspiration having an idea so young, can have on you, such a powerful seed to have planted yourself, but it's not widely spread? It's not, you know, it was, not everybody has that or wants to do it. So what we do pick up at that age, given the impact it's likely to have on us over the subsequent years, I find that really fascinating, but so you went to college to do business and finance. And how did that meet your expectations,

Ian Smith:

I met a lot of great people in college and actually I met my would be wife in college. So from that standpoint, it met them very, very well. And I'm very delighted to have done that. But it certainly helped open my eyes to how I could fulfil some of my objectives and some of my dreams and aspirations. The other option of before going to college was I was actually in what was called the Air Training Corps you might be familiar with, this is the air cadets, if you will for for young men. And my idea was that I was either going to be into business into business school or be a pilot. But a fighter pilot I wanted to be I wanted to fly that Oh, yeah, that's powerful. I didn't want any nonsense. So again, it was interesting because when I was in the Air cadets, I had the opportunity to fly venture T for a team of five gliders, which is a power gliders use the engine to get into the air. When you open the air, you cut the engine off when you glide back down and do these kind of circuits and so on, you float on the thermals and, and I think I was maybe 15 or 16, at the time, probably 15, where I did my first solo flight in this powered glider. And that was also I think, also a shaping moment for me, because it was that was a significant responsibility. Here I am 1000s of feet up in the air in this not rather inexpensive aircraft, but it's not certainly my aircraft. I was taught by RF pilots who on the weekends would dedicate their time to these young would be potential pilots. But as I got into college and and you know, the whole business school scene, I then started employment in the business space. And by the time I got back to thinking about my dream for being a pilot, I was already too old to be a pilot. And I can only qualify as a navigator. But I didn't want to be the person sitting reading maps in the back of the thing. I wanted to be the person up front, and it goes back to this kind of leadership mentality piece again, well, yeah, certainly kind of paved the way a little. So a little bit of a detour and the kind of the site and the storyline there. But there's a part of that story that shaped who I am, what I do, how I do, and how I perceive things or aspire towards things.

Andy:

Hmm. And when you left college, then how did you get your first job and what was it and what were your thoughts around that time.

Ian Smith:

So my first job First of all, was actually whilst I was still in college, I started working as a silver service waiter in a restaurant. And of course in the UK. gratuities and tips are very infrequent. So you earn based on a small hourly basis. So I would cater on weddings or serving the restaurant or you know, carrying five or six plates at a time of your arm and learning how to surf and memories and so on. And that's a life skill, actually, that was been very, very beneficial. So that was my first job. And that service role was was actually pretty significant in terms of some of the gifts and skills that gave me after I left college and got my education sorted out, I joined a company called great universal stores, great universal at the time was a catalogue or the company. I don't even know if they're still around today, certainly not in the catalogue business, I don't expect but I got a management trainee programme with that organisation. And then when can through personnel. I was supposed to go through marketing through sales through distribution to the whole value chain, I got to my first assignment, which was employee relations, and then they kept me in the HR department for a while. But that wasn't really for me. And at that time, my wife had been on her little trip. She left college and she decided she wanted to see the world. So she had spent time living in France and Rochelle and then moved to Canada and spent time living in Toronto and a plan was to basically do this work in your in different countries around the world. And just to see the world. Well I went to visit my wife in Canada as a friend. And at that moment in time it was we need to kind of be together and we cannot really like Canada So I set this up on a different journey. So after that trip, I went back to the UK, I resigned my role, I managed to get a, it was actually a three month visa, I guess I hired a consulting company that helped with resumes and the job market in the Canadian market, and went back to Canada and trying to figure out okay, but I was in Canada, what could I do and what opportunities are there, this was in the very early 90s, but it was in the middle of the recession. So things were really, really tough, but I got a lot of opportunities. Growing up in the northwest of England, it's a very fast paced, aggressive environment, there's a lot of competition, there's a lot of people in a very small space, what I found in Canada was people with the greatest respect to my Canadian experts, that time, people had a different perspective on life, and probably a better balance in life. And therefore, just because I was so used to going at 150 miles an hour, I was just able to achieve things that just seem very natural and very normal. But I didn't realise, you know, what I was doing was probably seem to be very driven, very, very focused, and that created opportunities. So I got a number of opportunities, but I wanted to make sure I did it legitimately and properly. And therefore I went back then to the UK, my wife came back about four or five months later. And then what happened was, I started working for a cause I just needed to get some employment I need I started working for a finance company and selling personal loans over the telephone. So I did tele sales in the UK, in the UK, and that was also a life life experience in that you know, selling interest rates that you know, high 20 30% how interest rates and consult doing more consolidations and providing access to finance for people was completely new field but it kind of got me down this kind of Business Administration type track, but was still very much in a kind of a sales role utilising all my skills that I had in terms of relationship building and so on. And I was successful at that. And interestingly enough, there was a brand new call centre in Warrington I was only there for a few weeks now maybe a few months and I was just observing how the call centre was being operated and recognised there was a better way of doing it so I made some recommendations on organisational design and structure and all those ideas were put into place and at the time I'm not that what I would like wanted to do was to be called commercial Field Sales Manager. Somebody was doing commercial leases and loans for small businesses and I got an opportunity to do so when I was presented that opportunity then of course the company I was working for then tried to keep me because of all the things I brought that they liked me in my role but in the end you know I always had this this view of if you couldn't offer anything else was doing the role can open the arguments the opportunity then I'm not now I'm going to change my mind because now you've changed your mind because you're losing somebody you want to keep so I made that switch and that's when I joined a company called united dominions trust and got into auto finance.

Andy:

Okay good place to pause if we may just to recap to see if I've understood so first role was great universe no first well role was this silver service waiting? Yeah, then First of all, after college was great universal stores. Yes. Yeah. And then your wife witchy English you are ishi English. She is she is English. Yes. And she was brought up like you in in the Northwest. Correct? Yeah, you met at business college or college doing business and then she had a travel bug as well. She wanted to go overseas and travel around doing different jobs and different places you went over to visit her in Canada and realise that that point Hang on. I actually want we want to be together. And we like Canada so you you stayed in Canada? I'm not quite sure why did you come back You said you wanted to do

Ian Smith:

so so I only had a three month visa to stay in Canada as a tourist visa. I didn't want it to be illegal immigrant. That's exactly correct. And this comes later when it comes to principles and values. I just wanted to do it right.

Andy:

Right. I see. So you came back to the UK and had to get a different roles here. So what was the third the call centre in Warrington? What was that called?

Ian Smith:

That that was for a company called Northwest securities. Right? And that was part of one of the national banks in the UK was one of their finance arms. And that was basically offering telephone, personal personal loans through a call centre environment.

Andy:

And were you still working then to get a proper visa for Canada behind this.

Ian Smith:

So what happened what happened was that when we My wife returned back from Canada, then we applied formally to emigrate to Canada. And this process, you know, they say, Well, if you qualify for this at the time, they had a point scheme. And so we went through we applied, we got the tacit approval to kind of go ahead. We spent an awful lot of money that time, the time, we didn't have an awful lot. I think it costs 1000 pounds, probably 2122. Wow. And I've even been here 2122. And at that time, the, yeah, there was a point system to to qualify for. And as we went through the process, they said, Well, okay, if you get asked for an interview, that's a good sign. And if you get to the interview, and they give you the request for medical examination, that's also a good sign. But in actual fact, every barrier we came across, it just ended up being just another drawn out experience and another drawn out challenge. So it took about four and a half years to get the the paperwork approved to emigrate. And part of the challenge wasn't during that period of time, I did all these different roles I've written I've been promoted a number of occasions. But because I've never been in a specific job for a period of two years, that basically said, I had no work experience that could qualify. So although I was demonstrating for progression and momentum, and becoming more and more successful, for the purposes of immigration, I didn't actually qualify as we had to go down to London, to the embassy, to the consulate to have an interview. And halfway through the interview with my wife, she claimed to have spoken French, halfway through the interview within the staff just immediately switched into French and just started talking French, and thankfully, my wife could speak French. But that was quite an experience. But eventually, we got all the paperwork through four and a half years later, we got to the point where we were about this is the first time where I thought I've been defeated. And we said, okay, if it doesn't come through, by the end of January, we're just going to continue our life here, we're going to buy another home, we're just going to move forward. And literally on the very last day of the month in January on the doorstep, was all the documentation, all the paperwork, and that was it. Here we go to Canada. So, and during that time, what happened was I was headhunted again by a company called GE Capital. Whilst I was working for nws, also working for United Dominion trust. And GE Capital at that time, had a region that they had nobody represented in in northwest of England. And it was broken. And I knew that I wasn't going to be around for long because they'd heard through, there might be industry that I had already expressed this intent to move to Canada. But they said, Look, if you're going to help us set up and rebuild this territory, if you continue to do that idea, and you do well for us, we'll help and support you in your ambition to move to Canada. And what actually happened was I did very well for GE Capital, I was able to reestablish a market, make it very successful again. And the trade off was they gave me some contacts and network names to enable me to basically connect in Canada, so I use that opportunity. So we literally arrived in Canada, in August of 19, nine, t 396. Sorry. And we arrived with five suitcases, a car hire for a week, the hotel booked for a week, I had an interview lined up for the following day, but we have no family, no friends, no contacts, and very, very small amount of money in our pocket because we had to sell our home and all our belongings in the UK to pay for all this consultation and so on that we paid to qualify for moving to Canada. And we basically said, Okay, here's our journey. Here's where my interview is tomorrow. This is where we're staying tonight. Here we go. Again. So thankfully, I went for that interview. And literally the next day, they put me on a plane to Chicago. So as soon as I arrived in Toronto, they were flying me to the United States to interview in the United States. And about three weeks later, I was given an opportunity to join GE Capital auto lease in Canada. And that's how I end up in a while my first opportunity in Canada. What was interesting was there, I was only again, using my track record, I was only in that role for about a year, year and a half. And then I was promoted to run the global financial services relationship and basically do all the capital financing for Volvo which was being run by GE Capital at that time. And because of the Volvo connections and some of the dealers in Canada at that time were Volvo dealers also happier w businesses. When BMW started looking for a sales director for the financial services business in Canada. I was basically headhunted by I'm an organisation and asked to go and join BMW, which I did back in 1999.

Andy:

Right Well, it just sounds like a sort of whistlestop tour through quite a few organisations, quite a few promotions quite a few approaches. So I'm thinking I must apologise to my listeners, because I've kind of sculpted the chronology a little bit by being interested in in, you know, how you word got out to Canada, and why you came back and so on. But what would you put it down to that the success that you had in those earlier you mentioned that you You worked hard, and you came from a part of the country that was fast paced, and aggressive and dynamic. And you, we know that you're a creative individual, and we know you're self motivated, and you had aspirations to create a better life for yourself. But yeah, what would you put it down to that the success that you had in those early years,

Ian Smith:

it goes a lot back to my my father's influence. My father's Well, my parents story, rather, is one of overcoming a very difficult set of circumstances coming from a rather difficult background, and providing a better life for the family. And I think that constantly niggle that the back of my mind that I didn't want to have to be in that situation where I could not provide. So failure was not an option. Of course, you have to fail in order to succeed, you have to learn as you go. However, I knew that I was an imperative for me, there was no other option. But success was no other option, but to to drive and to perform. And so that was my psychology, I guess, in my mind, perhaps didn't realise it at the time. But I was just determined to do whatever it was that I was doing. I was going to be successful at now. It's just my mindset. Other people would determine whether I was successful, of course, based on different criteria. But I think the way things played out for me, very much affirmed that what I was doing was was beneficial.

Andy:

Did you have any moments in those early years where you had any epiphanies if you like, or, or perhaps looking? Sometimes it's easier to see looking back and I do this sometimes look back and think I cringe at some of the things I was younger, and probably I'll cringe at some of the things I'm doing now in. Hey, that's the way it goes. So were there any moments where you you think you really understood something and he changed your approach or your balance or anything like that that springs to mind? It doesn't matter if not.

Ian Smith:

No, no, I think I was a very mature individual. In my early career. Male maturity generally doesn't happen late until later anyway, but but I was particularly mature, I think I was outspoken. If I was in a room, people would know I was in the room, I would be in kind of a central party or something like that. And they cringe at that now, I cringe it subtlety was not my upline needs to find his point for that time. Right. So I always wanted to be in the centre of things. And now I have a very different view on that. And one of our dear friends and colleagues, former colleagues, Christian, clean Canada, an expression keeping your ego in your pocket. And I tried to utilise and leverage that idea. And just way of leading for quite some time now. And I find that trying to be more humble, trying to be more inclusive, trying to be more respectful of others, and what others bring and what those contribute, made me ultimately a better leader, that I was not prepared for more when I was much younger. So it's a journey of learning journey, for sure. Because you know, at the beginning, I would just I would be a bull in a china shop, I would knew what I wanted to do. And Gosh, darn it I was going to get there.

Andy:

I know you as a very people focused leader Ian was, is that something that's developed? I'm just thinking bulls in china shops sound a little bit more task focused, perhaps than people focused. So is that something that's evolved over time?

Ian Smith:

I absolutely think it is. I think I had an opportunity early on in my career to go through a number of business transformations and see what could be done rather than what is and that was maybe a skill set that I perhaps brought to the table, not necessarily realising at the time. And then realising how tools things like balanced scorecards, or metrics or culture in particular, can drive business performance. You know, you can take an organisation and drive and drive and drive it. But if the organisation doesn't believe in it, or they just become tired, and they're not interested in that, in that aspiration, it's not sustainable. But if you can take an organisation, and you can help fulfil its own objectives and help people fulfil their dreams, and their aspirations, then you get a commitment level from those individuals that you couldn't even ask for. Because they just they give because they're getting out of it, what they want out of it. And I found that that form of leadership, helps drive far better performance, far better results creates the culture where people want it to be. And also give people an opportunity for growth and development. I always reflected and said, you know, it'd be wonderful at some point, I've had my hand in somebody's development at some point in time, and then I see them become more successful. And perhaps even one point in time, maybe, you know, I'm not the CEO, but they're the CEO, I'm reporting to them, perhaps. So whatever that looks like, that would be very rewarding and delighting for me, because I would have had at least a part in that person's history that I could see see fingerprints. And I think that that's a very encouraging thing for me as a personal self reflection. But that that certainly was not there. At the very beginning, I went through a lot of bumps and you know, maybe too aggressive. First, maybe too assertive, maybe too outspoken. But I managed to learn a bit more subtlety as time went on, managed to listen more as time went on, I still expect the impossible. But if you don't have dreams and aspirations that are big, and, and, you know, it's like the be hag from the book, Good to Great, and the big, hairy, audacious goals. Unless you've got something that it seems completely out of play, you're not pushing hard enough, or you're not, you're not exploring the real potential that's there, you're just scratching the surface or just maintaining

Andy:

so I've got a few thoughts agree completely with what you're saying, I I've got a few thoughts around. What you're saying there one is, is reverting back to to the very young version of Ian who, who likes to play with the Lego had the incredible imagination, then because I think when it comes to visions, and being able to imagine what a business is going to look like on the other side of the transformation, if you can do that so clearly and vividly that you can connect with it and it's almost real to you, then that's a very powerful thing to be able to do and then to create an environment where people can come on that journey with you. You give us the tools the balanced scorecard and the KPIs to show people how they're doing against that against building the vision now he said this is what we're going to do this and then you tell him this is how we're doing against it that all seems to fit together very well.

Ian Smith:

It absolutely does. You know, whether it was playing with Lego while playing with Mecano but but just creating and building it wasn't the creating the building. It was the it was creating what was in my mind's eye

Andy:

It's the imagining that precedes the building. Yeah?

Ian Smith:

Yes,yes. And that that persists even today. In fact, my project right now is I mean, I, I done home, refurnish I furnished or rather, I've renovated so many homes with my wife over the years, I've lost count. I built extensions on homes, and my my current project is renovating a vintage RV, and learning about electrical power systems and solar systems and waste units and, and how these things put together and it's, I just love that, that aspect of creating and building something and visualising something and helping it come to maturation.

Andy:

Yeah, I'm a big fan of. I think imagination is underrated as a business as a business skill, if you like. So you had, it's coming together. And also the other picture I have in mind is is perhaps the mid 20s as if he came to work and saw you in the more recent years saw you going about your role. I'd love to see the look on his face.

Ian Smith:

But yes, I think he'd be quite shocked but but at the same time I think there'd be a smile on his face, I think

Andy:

it looks like it goes well.

Ian Smith:

It didn't do too bad after all. Yeah. I was always into, you know, as a child growing I was I was a mod. So I was always into the Bolton blazers and the Zoot suits and the Motown music and, you know, the kind of the 60s kind of vibe, even though I was not born in the 60s. But, you know, that whole kind of fashion sense was something very important for me. And, quite frankly, that was also another part of, of what shaped me, you know, my image, my persona that I created the persona that I gave, projected, you know, so I was always, I always like to be dressed well, if I don't mean to be arrogant as to say that, but I always like to dress well, with a well fitted suits and tailored suits. And because I always have this mindset that when I put my suit on, that was my uniform, that was my business uniform. And that when I did that, that was now in the mindset of now this is running business. This is not, you know, the weekend doing his social activities, or whatever the case may be,

Andy:

gave you that clear distinction, and I've seen you looking very smart in your suits, what I'd love to see is some pictures of you when you are a mod. And we have our Instagram for Career-view Mirror, we put on some very nice pictures of our guests. But at some point, I'd like to expand that where we have speakers from throughout their story. So you know, we could have like you would in any biography, you always have that section of pictures in the middle and it would be lovely. Yeah, definitely you with a Vesper would be will be in there. So we've got that point, I think where BMW approached you for to be a sales director. Was that Canada or North America?

Ian Smith:

Canada.

Andy:

Okay. And was it an easy decision? Or where was your head at at that point.

Ian Smith:

And I'd always loved the brand BMW, my father. At one point, when we used to go on vacation, you would insure me to drive his vehicles. And he had a five I think it was a 535 I think it was called an ESI at the time, with the aero body kit on it. And I mean, this, I wish we'd had that car today that there will be quite a price this kind of vehicle, but it was, it was the vehicle I remember driving on the highway and I shouldn't say this now maybe police officers are listening, close your ears. But I remember driving on the on the M6 and got up to some pretty crazy speed. And the RPM on the vehicle was still are only around about three, three and a half 1000 rpm. And I'm thinking, this is an unbelievable receipt. This is just so this this spell aspiration for the BMW brand was born very early from personal experience. So when my when my wife had the opportunity to get her first car after we got married, I bought her a high mileage used three series that was just I treated it like a baby was minted. And even every time I saw the BMW around LA, it always inspired me. So when I had the opportunity to join BMW, then a lot of those kind of memories were just reaffirmed. And even whilst was with BMW, as you may well know, you know, we had the privilege of driving lots of wonderful cars. And every time I would change my car, I always felt privileged, sitting behind that wheel, and just experiencing these amazing machines, and having the opportunity to drive them. And so as I was like a kid every time I got a new car, which is great.

Andy:

It's no bad feeling at all. And how long did you do that role in Canada Sales Director role.

Ian Smith:

So I was the sales. I think I was employee number 21 in Canada, and the portfolio was very, very small at that time, the leasing business and just started just a few years earlier. So it was very much in its infancy. And BMW, Canada at the time was also relatively small volume as a market. But that was very clear that the market was set for growth. And so I did that role for about four and a half years. And then I was then scheduled to take on another role within b&w and the Regional Director at the time. Some of you may know very well john Chrisman approached me and said, You know, we've been talking to you about maybe taking on head of strategy role in the US market and so on and moving to the west. And another role at the time, he said but before you give me your answer for that, I've got a different question. How would you like to run our operations in Brazil? And that then was like all a different question a different was not a market that I expected. I didn't speak Portuguese, Brazil, you know, I was apprehensive about them. Moving to the US because they have guns. And you know, it's a different legal system there. And now all of a sudden, we're talking about moving to Brazil, where it's not just guns, it's armoured cars and other kinds of security challenges. But nonetheless, we prayed a lot about it. And between my wife and I, and we decided that, yeah, this is something that we want to do. So I called john back and said, yeah, we go to Brazil. And I remember being in that first role in Brazil and being in my office. And we had only been there about three or four weeks, and I was reflecting on how my journey took me there. And I went all the way back to this college aspiration of wanting to be the leader, and running the company. And here I am, you know, in my early 30s, now running an operation in a country that I'd never expected to live in with some amazing young individuals at that time of, again, a very, very small operation. But it was it was a it was operating like a Brazilian finance company was not necessarily integrated part of b&w group at that time. And so they're more for my role was to kind of bring up the standards, bring up the quality, bring up the performance of the portfolio, and just generally improve the overall business and was able to do so and do so successfully. And it was a wonderful time, my wife in particular, we thought it was a really my opportunity to move into Brazil and what that meant for me in my career, but as it turned out, my wife became the president of the Canadian International Women's society, she went to a meeting and literally they said, Okay, we're looking for a new president, after meeting I said, we think you'd be a great, a great candidate. So I basically got involved in a lot of charity work with her in what she was doing. And therefore, I really became just a conduit. But it was able to fulfil a number of things. And so very proud of my wife, what she achieved in Brazil, she was raising money to build community centres for these favelas, where they offer different treatments for medical services, or education or access to computers in very impoverished parts of South Paolo, in this particular case.

Andy:

Yeah, that's great to hear, it's often very challenging for the partner on these on these moves, because sometimes they're not able to work and find meaningful work to do. You mentioned in that you saw in your office in Brazil, and you reflected on how you'd come to be in that position and thought back to the aspirations you had when you're doing your business course, is reflecting something you do as a matter of course,

Ian Smith:

not enough of, quite frankly, I reflect when something has happened. It's not something I think, sit down and ponder, what does this mean and what could work? It's more as a reaction to to something. What was the cause of that? Or what brought me here? And because generally, and this is maybe one of my challenges is I'm so I speak quickly, ie quickly, I walk quickly. I'm on a mission. And you know, we really love it to reflect on that. So I'm not somebody who's sits easily still. My wife tells me sometimes just sit on your hands because I'm just I fidget and I move and I, I can't sit still. And he drives my wife absolutely crazy, because I can't just relax. It's just not part of my makeup.

Andy:

Right. So being significant, something significant happens that sort of brings you up short, then you'll go Okay. What happened there? Yes. Yeah. Otherwise, you're moving forward fairly quickly.

Ian Smith:

Yes. I mean, one of the things that we didn't talk about was that there was something that happened, which is major in my life, which was my faith. When we came to Canada, we had the opportunity I was in a business meeting, and the business meeting carried on there was a church service on Sunday. And this point of time, you know, we, we were ticking all the boxes, they moved to Canada, we bought a new house, got new cars, all everything that you know, the material world would say is successful. But I felt personally somewhat empty. And I was challenged with who I am and what is my purpose and those kinds of things. And basically became a Christian. My wife became a Christian and our faith and became a very central part of how we basically made decisions or how we reflected on our role and what what our role in society is and so on. And that has played itself through all the different decisions that we've made and our contribution to society to society and our neighbours around us. And so on. So that was something that was a life changing moment for me that also helped me. Again, reflect on what is what, what is my role? What is my purpose? What is my mission? And why haven't been given all these gifts and skills and abilities? and for what purpose?

Andy:

Can you remember? Sorry, can you remember at that time when you were feeling a bit empty if you like what, in sort of more detail what led you to the church rather than other things you might have done?

Ian Smith:

So the I was I was looking at all kinds of different literature and philosophy and trying to find answers to questions. But I was in this particular service, and they had an altar call. And an altar call is basically where, you know, they will preach the Word of God and basically offered to the congregants present, if anybody would like to come forward and basically accept Christ into their lives, which is what I did. And at that time, I liken it to being in a darkroom, and in a photo room, and somebody coming into that room and pulling on the light switch. And my life history at that point was almost like a flash memory of Aeon this way, in that way, what those barriers and obstacles that I perceived and came across in my life all of a sudden, became relevant. And I understood why there were challenges or why there were barriers or why there were obstacles and, and where I was being led. So that was a very profound time for me. And that helps shape also the way I think about leadership in terms of principle based leadership and ethical based leadership. And that is something certainly that I would like to think at least, is part of how I operate these days. Not to say that anybody is perfect. We're far from it, all of us. But certainly the principles of trying to do the right thing. You know, in the UK, for example, we talk about in the regulatory environment, treating customers fairly. And that just seems like a natural good ethos to have. And actually, if you do that, not only is it good for the customers, it's great for the customers, but it's good for business, and it's good for the businesses that I was running. So it's actually the right trade off when you do things that is very self centred. They're not sustainable. You know, there's a lot of things that came off from that. And I don't know why I kind of went down that track, but it's an important part of my personal journey.

Andy:

Yeah, no, it must have been something I said surface that but you did say so it was part of a business event where there was a church service attached to it. And it was in there that all of a sudden, this, this happened, and had significance. Going forward gave you a lot. All of a sudden, it made sense, the things that you've done, the direction you've made the challenges you'd have to face. There was a clarity, then. Yeah, and that stayed with you ever since

Ian Smith:

Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

Andy:

Marvellous. So where were we up to?

Ian Smith:

Well, we'd arrived in Canada, we, we went through my first role in Brazil and right Brazil, in Brazil. And as a result of what I was doing in Brazil, I, I was presented with a couple of options. One was to stay in Brazil, and maybe move over to the sales side of the business and run the sales organisation from there because I was helping out a lot with the, what we call the national sales company activities and providing some guidance and input for their board. And that was well received. But then another opportunity came up. And my then boss said, Well, you know, I'd like to come back to the United States, and basically help set up our insurance business for us in the US market. It's a very, very small business for us right now. And look after all the business development areas in the sales area. So there's basically asked to take on a role as a Vice President of Business Development in the US market, which which I did. And, again, they're talking about building a business where people were talking about incremental growth, and I was talking about exponential growth. So I was taught and talking in multiples of 10, and even more in terms of scale and not saying okay, we can go from x to y, but X to Y 10 times. And a lot of people were really challenged with that, because it meant that we had to really rethink how we did business but ultimately, that's where the business in certainly today is most definitely performing. And that was a number of years ago, of course. But after doing that role, what happened was, is that I was asked to then to, to go to Canada and to basically take over the Canadian organisation. At the time, the Canadian market, this is back in fall of 2007, the Canadian dollar went from 76 cents on the dollar to$1.11 on the dollar, literally in about three weeks. So the Canadian dollar had massive appreciation in the market. And as a consequence, the used car market values in Canada started to have a major problem. So the portfolio in Canada was under a real threat. So I was asked to go back to Canada. So in the first quarter of 2008, I was asked to go back to Canada and basically fix that business and fix the portfolio, which required a lot of very difficult decisions organizationally, but also structurally, and that's where my business transformation piece was also leveraged. But it was a not an easy time. Great, great individuals, great team, great business. But this, of course, was the precursor to the financial crisis. And what was actually happening in the markets may have been part partly indicating what was to then come and then lead the organisation through the financial crisis and deal with a very large portfolio because the portfolio By that time, I'd grown materially from when I started many years on and my successes and and those people that followed to help build that business very, very well. And was was then tasked to fix that business which I did and I did that until about 2011.

Andy:

Yeah, interesting time to be in without this or any business at that, in that period. And going back to when you said you use a target exponential growth. And just it made me think of something that if you, it seems you almost have to put a TEDx target on something to really get people to think differently, and to not try and solve it with the same solutions they're using. At the moment, is that something you would agree with?

Ian Smith:

That I would agree with. You, I think sometimes you have to believe that what is not possible is possible in order to really explore what is really possible. If people are just going to improve something, the most common problem of fault that I see is that, for example, when it comes to process improvement, we will improve the process and make it better. But they missed the fundamental question, why does it even need to exist? Is there a better way, or a different way of solving that particular challenge or problem? And if there is, it's better to eliminate something than to elaborate on something that's not needed? That's the first thing that I observed. But I also see that because people are caught in this mindset, certainly in the environments that I've been. There's this incrementality to what they do. that limits the vision. They can't see what can be, because they see that, you know, well, maybe if we're at 10, today, maybe getting to 15 would be a good target. Well, if it's 10 today, why is it not 100? Why is it not? 1000? Why is it not multiples thereof? Why is it not a completely new business altogether. And some people can't get their head around that because their role may be does not allow them to do that they've been given maybe a direction in the past that is, let's put them in this box. I remember when I had the privilege to take over the US organisation. And we'll come back to this in a few moments. But there was one individual every day I will go into the office. And this individual, I drove this person crazy, because every day I deliberately put something completely crazy into his mind. And I would say, for example, we're going to change this and we're going to eliminate that. And I learned later that he used to curse me towards the other colleagues. But eventually, after about six or nine months, all of a sudden, this individual got it. And this individual started to create things and do things that lead to exponential thinking, and exponential opportunities. And that's where we're able to then launch things like subscription services and so on. And that it was amazing to see and when that individual moved on to the next role, they were very forward with me and saying he used to drive me crazy. But I'm so glad that you did because now I see completely differently. I see the potential of what can be not what is and I see that. You know if you can perceive it, you can build it. If you can dream it, you can create it and if people have the room and the latitude To be able to fail in that environment, you can create some amazing opportunities

Andy:

that last bit is pretty crucial that you give them the space to fail. I was going to ask you, tote never thought of this? Well, I think I thought it probably prompted by what you're saying is, do you think you can teach imagination? And then you told that story of someone getting it and being able to perceive different outcomes. And I'm wondering is that because I was thinking, Okay, so imagine some we have different abilities at imagining, I don't know how you test for this, but, and if you cannot see, as far ahead, then you are going to proceed with caution, it's a bit like being in the dark, isn't it, you're going to step forward more cautiously than the person that's got his full beams then on headlights and can see, you know, miles up the road and exactly what they're heading for. But you also mentioned faith. So it's not just about or being able to believe in things that don't exist, yet or might not, might not be true. So I was just sorry, I'm just wondering if you can teach imagination, or what you did was you you just kept pushing, and pushing and pushing until perhaps, and you get an environment where people weren't scared of failing in with a small f if you like. So he carried on trying, but he got to the point where he could try different things. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, I just Well,

Ian Smith:

no, I follow your track. In fact, what I don't know the answer to can you help somebody become it? Can you can you create help somebody become more imaginative, more creative, I don't know. But you can certainly help people, reveal them to themselves other opportunities. And I find that the best way of doing that is taking something that is completely, you know, I remember. So another side story, I used to draw these charts, and you'd have kind of this natural curve that goes up, and it would kind of grow and become so exponential. But I had this tendency of saying, okay, that's where we are. And this is where this curve takes us. And now if you imagine that scale going out, significantly out and significantly up, and then you start putting a.in, the top right corner. So but how do you get there? And how do we do that. And it might be that you have to break everything that we do today in order to get there. So a lot of what I found to be very effective is basically challenging people's basic assumptions. If the, if the market or the regulator or whatever is, is the way things work, does it this way, well, why not do it a different way. Sometimes deliberately breaking things can be very insightful. for new ideas, and for new creation of new opportunities, is often when you are prepared to take big risks in breaking something to the point where we don't jeopardise the company. Of course, you can't do that. But there are small ways you can you can push boundaries and test boundaries. And by doing so you get to change the paradigm. And when you're able to change the paradigm, and other people can see that then they can learn from that so they can learn and grow from experience about these different ways of perceiving what can be. And they can grow in that. Does that make them no more imaginative or creative? Not necessarily, but they can leverage others for that, you know, other people can bring skills. And if you don't have that skill yourself, you can bring in people who have that creativity to test those ideas. Are you thinking broad enough? Thinking far enough? About what could be not what is? I think by the same token, it can't be that you want a team full of people who've just got lots of ideas, and they can't implement the you need to be able to corral people together, who are going to challenge you are going to push back. But you can still drive things forward. So you do it in a kind of somewhat structured way, and allow that creativity and there is never a bad idea. And there is never a no. There's always well, let's test it. Let's prove it. Let's, let's substantiate. I have our hypotheses. Yeah. And more often than not, I've always said You know, every, every problem has a solution. And by and large, most of the solutions can work. Generally the thing that gets in the way is the attitude. Because if you believe that something won't work, I can guarantee you, it's never going to work. And oftentimes in business, I've found that a lot of people will overlay the what they think can work and can work and their attitude gets in their way. Rather being open to what can be can really open up the flood doors and being Not being open to new ideas. Yeah, open just opens up a different opportunity.

Andy:

Yeah. So I'm not sure what the starting point is for people's level of imagination. I think what you were also doing with your gentlemen in in the office, there was you were making the status quo pretty uncomfortable.

Ian Smith:

Yes. That it was very clear.

Andy:

So that I think that's one thing we can do. And another is to take away some of trying to address some of the fears that people have that are actually preventing them. from thinking bigger, there'll be some paradigm around, well, this might go wrong. And if this goes wrong, I might be in a lot of trouble and lose my job. So as you said, you create an environment where you take away some of that fear so that it's okay to try stuff. So sorry, that was a little side sidetrack, a very interesting, while we were there, we were at the end of the financial crisis, I think, and we've been through the residual value issues in Canada, and then through the financial crisis. And what happened after that.

Ian Smith:

So after the financial crisis, I was asked to run our UK business. And at the time, it was, I actually returned, I turned down the offer the first time. Because we grew up in the UK, we emigrated to Canada for a reason we now find ourselves in Canada, but unfortunately, I was I was too young to continue to do what I was doing. And the Canadian market being as limited as it was men that, you know, had to move again, somewhere else. So the first time I turned down the opportunity, and then the next time it was one of those, even, this could be a career limit, career limiting moment, if you don't take this opportunity. And my response to that time was, well, I need to think about this, I need to talk about it with my wife, this is not going to be a given just because, you know, there is some pressure to move. So ultimately, we took the decision to go to the UK, and I ran the UK business for a little under five years. And again,

Unknown:

What made you change your mind and how was the conversation with your wife and what made you decide to do it?

Ian Smith:

Again, coming back from a faith perspective, we prayed about it, we prayed about what where we felt we were being led but also provided an opportunity for us to reconnect with some of our family that was that was there. And you know, it was it was something that we when you live in a place and when you live in an environment, oftentimes you don't see the wood for the trees. And what we agreed to do between us, we said, okay, we're going to go back to England, we're not going to go back as English people living in England, we're going to go back as Canadians experiencing the history and the culture of England. And therefore we were our eyes were open to a very different world. So for example, we lived in a little tiny Hamlet village, and just about 500 metres from where we lived, was a 10th century Norman church. That was a fortification that we became a church. And in that coincidently, you know, Lord Wolf, who was the guy who been swimming down the St. Lawrence River in Canada, the whole Canadian history was in this church as well, which we didn't know about until he got there, which was the historical components. And it was just fascinating. So we just learned to go and see the sights, and we visited all the different castles and venues. And we just embraced history. And we learned a lot about this place that we'd lived in for most of our lives, but really didn't know anything. So one of the life lessons now was taking time to smell the roses and taking time to observe what's around you. And and really embrace that. And that was, that was really great experience. I was also very fortunate enough that in that particular situation, that the business that was being run that was it was a great team. So we're able to build a really unifying group of people who also were challenged to think differently, we did think differently, in even in the way that the information was being presented. I remember doing a presentation in Germany, and as you know, when dealing with a lot of engineers and technical individuals, they expect presentations to be done a certain way. Well, we brought them all the little bit so we'd gone through massive organisational redesign, we've gone through strategic redesign, a different approach to market dynamics, especially because the new regulator that was coming in and so the team went and presented our business plan of what we were doing and how we're doing it and and we represented in things like jelly beans representing people and this is how many jelly beans that were green represented this department now, there's only this many jelly beans that are green there. But we've now got 15 jelly beans that are pink there and this new department that's been created which has been developed analytics and data and this Transformation through digitalization, which was at that time, it was still a lot of buzzwords, but we were starting to do it. And we talked about customers and how many customers we want. And instead of talking about just a number on a board, we said, okay, we filled eight soccer stadiums. And if we fill the last one, I think was Dortmund. I think it was, once we feel Borman we've achieved our goal. And their whole idea was telling people visualise, what does this many customers look like? How do you serve an organisation when you're serving eight stadiums full of people who are leveraging your products and your services. And that was also helpful for the organisation to help get a, an understanding of what we were doing. It was a very exciting time.

Andy:

And that may be that's a way to help people who aren't predisposed to easily imagining and visualising things you use your creativity or the team's creativity. So how can we make this easy for people to visualise? Make soccer stadiums? Yeah, make it jelly beans, like, and how long did you stay, I love the idea of also live in your own country as if you're on an assignment. I remember when we went to New Zealand, and we'd been there a little while and then we had friends who were locals. And they'd be so amazed by where we've been, they've been there, but I haven't been there for years or because they lived, like all locals do, it'll always be there. I'll go another time Whereas when you when you've got a fixed time in a country, you tend to go for it and explore. So you look at the UK as an assignment, absolute, let's go and enjoy it as a visitor.

Ian Smith:

well one of the things that we were and for whatever reason, we were not blessed with having our own children. So we adopted to two boys. And they have they had have their own challenges. But one of the things that moving enabled us to do is to put them into some schools and get the support from different services that they needed. And the UK was a good environment for that, actually, as well to put them into a good school and to help their education. But all these things coming together just made it make sense for us. Yeah, we thoroughly thoroughly enjoyed it. But as I talked about the transformation in the business, because that was now being started to recognise that what I was doing in all these different roles was building opportunities, expanding the business potential recreating restructuring organisations, I was then asked to then head up the head of strategy for financial services based out of Munich and head office, and basically how BMW group when it came to the new sales models and new business models, what was the role of financial services within that. So I took over a whole bunch of responsibilities like strategy, marketing, business development. compliance, strangely enough, was one because of my experience in the UK compliance environment, and a whole host of different areas. But it was a fascinating time. And no sooner. I mean, one of the things that was was great, we lived in Munich, a wonderful city. But working in Munich was was different. It was very, very long hours starting seven, seven o'clock, 730 in the morning, with first contacts, first phone calls, going up until perhaps nine o'clock in the evening, every day, then having a conversation with my colleagues or my my boss at the time, on the cell phone, and then trying to learn German around midnight, and to get up again at six o'clock the following morning, to do the whole thing again, that that was that was challenging. But it was also a great experience. You know, anytime one has an opportunity to live in a different country and learn a different culture experience different culture, it informs language is amazing to understand how language is formed, and certain certain as you learn languages, you learn how the culture starts to think and operate, and it gives you a different insight than just being a tourist in that particular case. So I did that for about 18 months. And then I was asked them to take over the responsibility of leading the Americas region, so to become the CEO and president of the US organisation, and also region, Americas, which is Canada, Mexico, Brazil, which was a huge responsibility was our largest, or it was the largest part of the portfolio of us financial services within the BMW group. And I was given that privilege and the honour of leading that team and that organisation and again, another journey was about to set sail. So and that was my last assignment.

Andy:

And were you at all daunted by that, Ian, or did it feel like a logical progression and bring it on?

Ian Smith:

I was not daunted at all. In fact, if anything, one Other things that I experienced after leading after being the CEO of what four different markets and a senior executive as a in another department. With all that experience and exposure, I felt very confident that no matter what the state the business was in, it could improve and it can be better, and it can be stabilised. And again, in the US, we went through a another significant business transformation. Because it was running like it was running for the last 15 or 20 years, which was successful, but it was not necessarily equipped for the future. So it wasn't thinking about, for example, Ai, or market intelligence or analytics. And I'm not just talking about, you know, crunching numbers, but really using analytics to help drive business decision and business and be really meaningful with insight of how you can actually grow or change versus now helping using data in such a way that informs the business of which which steps can be taken. implementing new use car organisations, for example, to manage the portfolio better to have better asset management and portfolio, restructuring the organisation to create stronger risk management and compliance functions in an ever increasing regulatory environment. But all at the same time, trying to be more operationally effective and more operationally efficient. So it was a big task. But we took out a number of roles. I don't say that lightly, because every time you do that you impact another person. But for most of those individuals who are able to, we're able to find new opportunities or reposition in the organisation, different area, but certainly make the organisation much more agile for the future. And we laid out a pathway that this is now still being implemented itself. Again, everything looks good. And again, with that, with the team that we have that encourages a lot of I don't like to use the word pride because it suggests an arrogance. They use pride in that sense of appreciation. And what that team was able to do, fills me with great pride and great joy, that we did something meaningful, that was transformative, that helped grow the business that made the business stronger, that made it better for the people working within the business, and providing better services and offerings to our consumers, our customers.

Andy:

It sounds like you were having the sort of impact that you had aspired to have when you were a young man, when you were studying. When you get into

Ian Smith:

being a leader of an organisation, it's easy to get caught up in not in the you know, we look at me, isn't it great is and you know, but going back to Christian clinkers comment about keeping your ego in your pocket, and deliberately trying to take a more of a sideline role in servant leadership, and helping the organisation still really challenging the organisation. But allowing the organisation to explore and find itself, I found was a part of my own personal maturing as a leader. And from that standpoint, that that was incredibly rewarding. And it does harken back to my early aspirations. But one thing that I talk a lot about with people that I've mentored or coached I've this kind of philosophy called three 510. So if you think about the 10 year horizon, it might be a flashy imagery in your mind's eye about what the future might be, you know, what kind of environment are you in? What kind of things are you doing? What drives you? What stirs you? If you then kind of scale it back and say, okay, five years, what does that look like in five years? Does that give you any more clarity? If you if your vision is to be here in 10? What does five years mean? And then when you get to three years, that's really your, your current role, or maybe the role after your current role. So if you're faced with a decision of making a change, does that change lead me to that future outcome that I aspire to five or 10 years down the road? And it's a really great way of helping people think through their own personal journeys, their own personal decisions, but I've also used that myself as well, to qualify, does this move us to where we want to be? And that's quite frankly, why I find myself in the situation where just recently, as you know, I resigned from BMW group on my own volition because I came to the realisation that there was a different future for me, and I needed to take a different pathway and I wanted to go back to Canada. I wanted to be with my wife and this is where we want it to be. So made a very a lot of people don't understand that decision. I remember sitting down with the chairman of BMW group and and he asked me and I understand you're leaving, but explain the reasons why and did explain the reasons why and the very personal reasons why and he said, he and there's a lot of people that leave the group and you In a couple years time they come back, and they want to they don't they don't realise what they've left behind. Simply in your case, I fully understand your thought process and your decision, why you want to leave, please stay in touch, please stay connected. But clearly, this was a decision that I needed to make with my wife about what our future was going to be like, our future aspire to be like, about reconnecting with people reconnect with friends, being part of a family and a community. Very, very important. And I felt that doing more international, doing more of what I've, I've done, wasn't going to get us there. So that was a very big bold decision. And, and as it stands as of today, that is still a question mark of what I'm going to be doing. But I'm highly confident that the skills and abilities and gifts that I've been given conserve in so many different organisations in so many different ways, I jokingly say to people, I'm going to open up my own coffee shop and be my own barista, or I'm going to help a small helper, an organisation that's maybe a privately run organisation go public, and I'll do everything in between.

Andy:

basis. That's very, very good. Is there any more to say about what that that conversation with the chairman? And what it was that convinced him that Okay, you've clearly thought this through? So you touched on some things there about, you know, wanting to do be family and be in Canada? And is that? Is that the main thing? Or is that? Is there any thing more you can share about that?

Ian Smith:

Well yeah, I mean I think it's important to understand the context of the roles that I've had, I mean, the roles that I've had have been entirely consuming. We jokingly, you know, talk about, you know, if you've cut my arm, I would be bleed blue. And I'd certainly and one of the reflections, or maybe one of the things that I recognise now, and certainly COVID has helped us some degree, is recognise that I gave too much of myself. That may be sound strange, but I did sacrifice an awful lot for my career. And my family was part of that sacrifice. And I didn't know it at the time. But now as I reflect back, I see it. And that's not something that I want to continue with. No, my relationship with my wife, I literally would fly 100 times a year. And I would spend a lot of the time at the airport or being away from home. And, you know, I got married to Louise for a reason I wanted to be with her, and continuing to live in a different country, she moved back to Canada, with it in our home in Canada, and just to see her at weekends, and when the opportunity presented itself was not live to be living. And therefore, that sheer realisation alone on the personal side was okay, it's time to reconnect with people and friends. Because we don't want to just become acquaintances, we want true friendships and deep friendships and meaningful friendships, and to go through our own change, and take the consequences that come with that, because the consequences that can come with that the downside, can't be worse than being away from my family and my wife into the future. So it was a it was a very, very difficult decision to leave BMW. I mean, in terms of my career, I have 20 years of service with BMW, it's an organisation at massive the respect a lot of great people that I know and appreciate and value in BMW, giving up a significant responsibility of the largest market in within financial services in a role that is very senior position, with the title and all the things that go with that, and just say, No, there's a different pathway for me. And it was a bold step. But again, it's a step taken in faith. I feel confident about the future. And I'm feeling excited about the future.

Andy:

I was reminded of a phrase a couple of days ago, Ian that, to be able to say no to things we need to have a bigger, yes, burning inside. And so to say no to continuing your very, very successful career in BMW, you had a very strong yes burning inside which was to focus on the life that you're creating now in your in your home there and with your wife. And so that makes sense makes Yes. Thank you very much indeed for sharing your career journey. And all the little side routes we went down to explore topics that you have got so much experience in whether it's transformation or all those topics we've discussed. So thank you so much for doing that. I really appreciate it. There's a wealth of information there that I think should not stay locked up in your head or that of any of my guests and I love to share it with my listeners and I thoroughly enjoyed the process. So is there anything I should have asked you? Anything else that I should have asked? You

Ian Smith:

No Andy, I just appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation because in the conversation itself there's some self revelation. Right? So this is self reflection to your point about what journey have I taken? And what journey Am I on? And? And how do I contribute to others? And how can I give to others now can I support them help develop others. And I think the more that you can give away, you get back multiple times. So it's been a rewarding experience for me just to have this conversation with you today. So I'm just very thankful. So I don't think if the conversation didn't come up, it's not needed in today's dialogue. But I appreciate it very, very much. And it's a real pleasure.

Andy:

Thank you. Real pleasure for me too and I'm glad I'm, I love that little recommendation at the end as well. So for the listeners, if I ask other listeners, you know, you can hear it's quite a pleasant and helpful place. Thanks, Ian I look forward to our next conversation before too long.

Ian Smith:

It's always a pleasure. Stay safe stay well.

Andy:

You've been listening to Career-view Mirror with me, Andy Follows I hope you found some helpful points to reflect on in Ian's story. For me some of the takeaways, that innate sense of adventure that he had that led him to decide to leave the UK and move to Canada in his 20s the imagination and the vision and the energy and the people skills that have enabled him to excel in delivering transformation projects throughout his career. That interesting story of how he found his faith, how he how he came to have that epiphany if you like, and how his faith has continued to guide him ever since that moment. And, of course, the lesson that he learned from another of my guests Christian Kalinke about keeping your ego in your pocket. We publish these episodes to celebrate my guests careers, hear their stories, and learn from their experiences. I'm genuinely interested in what resonated with you. If you have any comments or feedback for us. If you have any questions or if Ian's insights have helped you, then please let us know by leaving a review. Your feedback helps us to grow. You can leave a review on Apple podcasts or pod chaser, or you can find the episode on our Instagram at Career-view. Mirror and comment there. Some listeners have reached out to me with specific requests. And I've been able to introduce them to some of my guests to discuss their own career direction, which has been very rewarding for me my listeners and my guests. Anirudh in India wrote I recently heard your podcast with Christian Kalinke. It was awesome. I love that you were able to go deep with him on his career with BMW. And as always Kalinke's story was as dynamic as he is. Thank you for sharing this with us. Thank you, Anirudh. And thank you to all of you for sharing your feedback. Thanks also to Hannah, our producer, to be among the first to know about our upcoming guests. Follow us on Instagram at Career-view Mirror. And if you know people who have benefit from hearing these stories, please show them how to find us. Thanks for listening.